Minnesota Sports Forum

lipoli390 wrote:

Q-was-here wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:Vanderbilt had 18 points,13 rebounds, 6 assists and 2 steals tonight. Kessler had 10 points, 9 rebounds and 3 blocks.

Markkanen continues an impressive season.

Anyone else notice Kevin Knox is having a solid statistical season for the Pistons? Anyone see if he is doing other good things other than hitting shots which...is nice lol

You're right about Markkanen. I've never been a big Markkanen fan and never expected him to have a season like the one he's having. Another one I got wrong. I recall Rosas was interested in trading for Markkanen. He had a pretty good sense of talent - Naz, Nowell, Reid, JMac, and Edwards, but also the ones he wanted but didn't get like Garland and Markkanen. I recall Rosas was reportedly also trying ti maneuver for another 1st-round pick to draft Haliburton. Sure, he made some mistakes like drafting Culver and re-signing Juancho. I also think he made a mistake with the DLO deal, although there's a reasonable debate about that. All in all, I miss him. No way he would have made the Gobert deal and that would have made me happy. :)

It is a little odd to see someone take such a big leap after 5 seasons of good, but not great, production. Not that guys can't keep improving into their mid and later 20s, but he has taken an unusually big leap for a 6th year player.

Yes, it's unusual, but not unprecedented. Billups was a prime example of a late bloomer who didn't hit his stride until his 5th or 6th season. Steve Nash didn't take a leap forward until his 5th season. Even Kobe Bryant actually took his biggest leap in his 5th season when he went from averaging 22.5 points to 28.5. I know there have been other really good and even elite players (like the aforementioned) who were particularly late bloomers. That's why I always preach patience with young players. In contrast, I'm not especially patient with 30 year old vets.

Well for one thing He is playing a different position. Last year in Cleveland he played a lot of SF for a team that went big. This year he is starting with Olynyk and Vanderbilt isn't he forntcourt. I think with the Bulls he was primarily a PF and maybe his skills as basically a giant SG wing type weren't utilized as well. There MIGHT even be something to be learned from that with the Wolves having an assembled a massive frontcourt of Gobert Towns and McDaniels.

Q-was-here wrote:Golden State lost to the Knicks (got crushed in fact), giving us a bit of a cushion from the cutoff from missing the playoffs/play-in tourney.

Not that any of us would be giddy if we barely made the play-in tourney, but it's certainly better than completely missing everything in a year we don't have a pick. Plus we continue to stay within striking distance of the top 6.

Suns lost to the Wizards too. Getting a top 4 seed in the west is still very doable for the wolves.

lipoli390 wrote:You're right about Markkanen. I've never been a big Markkanen fan and never expected him to have a season like the one he's having. Another one I got wrong. I recall Rosas was interested in trading for Markkanen. He had a pretty good sense of talent - Naz, Nowell, Reid, JMac, and Edwards, but also the ones he wanted but didn't get like Garland and Markkanen. I recall Rosas was reportedly also trying ti maneuver for another 1st-round pick to draft Haliburton. Sure, he made some mistakes like drafting Culver and re-signing Juancho. I also think he made a mistake with the DLO deal, although there's a reasonable debate about that. All in all, I miss him. No way he would have made the Gobert deal and that would have made me happy. :)

I'm not nearly as down on Tim Connelly as others are, but I also miss Gersson Rosas heading this organization from a basketball standpoint. For clarity, I'm specifying the last part because I don't have all the details as to his leadership and professional relationships.

Simply, I think Rosas is exactly the type of executive I'd want in my front office. Mostly, I liked that he was unafraid to make moves. He wasn't scared to pull the trigger on deals that he thought could/would benefit the roster -- even if he was acting on his own without input from his subordinates -- and most of those moves actually worked out in his favor. His fingerprints are all over this current roster primarily because of his savvy deal-making -- specifically, salvaging the Jimmy Butler trade to Philadelphia by acquiring young talent buried in Denver, handling the Andrew Wiggins situation as well as anyone could have given the circumstances, and opportunistically flipping assets/players for upgrades (see: Taurean Prince, Patrick Beverley).

You also have to appreciate the hidden gems or undervalued talent that he acquired along the way. He flipped Minnesota's roster of misfits into one loaded with young talent and intrigue. He had to burn it to the ground and build it back up and he did so in a hurry by adding D'Angelo Russell, Malik Beasley, Jarred Vanderbilt, Naz Reid, Jaylen Nowell, and Jordan McLaughlin in his first year on the job. He followed that up by adding Anthony Edwards and Jaden McDaniels in his second off-season. That resume of talent acquisition is very impressive given what we know now.

Rosas definitely wasn't perfect with his decision-making, but he did much more good than bad -- so much so that Minnesota's still feeling the positive impact he made in such a short amount of time.

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Q-was-here wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:Vanderbilt had 18 points,13 rebounds, 6 assists and 2 steals tonight. Kessler had 10 points, 9 rebounds and 3 blocks.

Markkanen continues an impressive season.

Anyone else notice Kevin Knox is having a solid statistical season for the Pistons? Anyone see if he is doing other good things other than hitting shots which...is nice lol

You're right about Markkanen. I've never been a big Markkanen fan and never expected him to have a season like the one he's having. Another one I got wrong. I recall Rosas was interested in trading for Markkanen. He had a pretty good sense of talent - Naz, Nowell, Reid, JMac, and Edwards, but also the ones he wanted but didn't get like Garland and Markkanen. I recall Rosas was reportedly also trying ti maneuver for another 1st-round pick to draft Haliburton. Sure, he made some mistakes like drafting Culver and re-signing Juancho. I also think he made a mistake with the DLO deal, although there's a reasonable debate about that. All in all, I miss him. No way he would have made the Gobert deal and that would have made me happy. :)

It is a little odd to see someone take such a big leap after 5 seasons of good, but not great, production. Not that guys can't keep improving into their mid and later 20s, but he has taken an unusually big leap for a 6th year player.

Yes, it's unusual, but not unprecedented. Billups was a prime example of a late bloomer who didn't hit his stride until his 5th or 6th season. Steve Nash didn't take a leap forward until his 5th season. Even Kobe Bryant actually took his biggest leap in his 5th season when he went from averaging 22.5 points to 28.5. I know there have been other really good and even elite players (like the aforementioned) who were particularly late bloomers. That's why I always preach patience with young players. In contrast, I'm not especially patient with 30 year old vets.

Well for one thing He is playing a different position. Last year in Cleveland he played a lot of SF for a team that went big. This year he is starting with Olynyk and Vanderbilt isn't he forntcourt. I think with the Bulls he was primarily a PF and maybe his skills as basically a giant SG wing type weren't utilized as well. There MIGHT even be something to be learned from that with the Wolves having an assembled a massive frontcourt of Gobert Towns and McDaniels.

The position he plays could certainly be part of it. Truth is, players develop at different rates, and history has shown us, that some really good or even great NBA players don't take their big leap until their 4th, 5th or even 6th season. Billups, Steve Nash and even Kobe Bryant at a few examples. Sometimes we forget how young and inexperienced these players are now compared to earlier eras when players played 3-4 years in college. Kobe came right out of high school, but Steve Nash played 4 years in college and Billups played two; yet both of them took a long time to develop in the NBA. Edwards, Jaden and Naz played only one year of college ball.

I think we're seeing Edwards take a big leap right now, a third of the way into his third season. But I think we'll see his biggest leap next year in his fourth season, assuming he learned his lesson about taking care of his body and coming to camp NBA ready. I think Jaden is going to be one of those late bloomers, taking his big leap in his 4th or even 5th season. I think we're seeing Naz taking his big leap right now. Often it's a combination of development and opportunity (i.e., significant and consistent playing time). Naz is finally getting significant and consistent minutes playing with the team's better players as part of the starting unit. And we're seeing the result. Note that Reid's best season before this one was his 2nd season when he played more minutes. His FG and 3-point percentages were higher than season than any other season until this one.

If our front office plays this right, they'll keep Edwards, Jaden, Naz and Nowell as a core of talented young players to continue building around. They've shown a lot of patience with these guys so far and it's starting to pay dividends, but the biggest dividend lies ahead. Meanwhile, we have Knight, Garza, Minott and Moore. Patience, patience, patience. :)

The Jazz beat the Wizards tonight. That supposedly rebuilding Jazz team just refuses to fade. Vanderbilt didn't have a good game. But Beasley scored 25 points while shooting over 50% from the field and over 40% from behind the arc. He also added 4 steals to his stat line. He's had far more good games than bad ones so far this season. Meanwhile, Kessler had 12 points, 14 rebounds and 2 blocks in his 32 minutes as the Jazz starting center. Never mind the draft picks, I just have a hard time fathoming any Wolves fan who would prefer having Gobert, Forbes, and Nathan Knight, over Vanderbilt, Beasley and Kessler.

Still, as a Wolves fan I wouldn't even consider trading places with a Wizards fan right now. Once again the Wizards are spiraling down the standards like they did last season. The Wolves can still turn things around this season and they have longer-term pieces like Edwards, McDaniels, Reid and possibly Minott to build around if necessary. But the Wizards are going nowhere and there's no bevy of young talent to salvage their future. At what point do they finally put Beal on the market and blow it up?

lipoli390 wrote:The Jazz beat the Wizards tonight. That supposedly rebuilding Jazz team just refuses to fade. Vanderbilt didn't have a good game. But Beasley scored 25 points while shooting over 50% from the field and over 40% from behind the arc. He also added 4 steals to his stat line. He's had far more good games than bad ones so far this season. Meanwhile, Kessler had 12 points, 14 rebounds and 2 blocks in his 32 minutes as the Jazz starting center. Never mind the draft picks, I just have a hard time fathoming any Wolves fan who would prefer having Gobert, Forbes, and Nathan Knight, over Vanderbilt, Beasley and Kessler.

Still, as a Wolves fan I wouldn't even consider trading places with a Wizards fan right now. Once again the Wizards are spiraling down the standards like they did last season. The Wolves can still turn things around this season and they have longer-term pieces like Edwards, McDaniels, Reid and possibly Minott to build around if necessary. But the Wizards are going nowhere and there's no bevy of young talent to salvage their future. At what point do they finally put Beal on the market and blow it up?

I believe Beal has a no-trade clause, but yeah, the Wizards are going nowhere.

Beasley might be the guy we miss the most. Nowell hasn't filled his shoes in a way I had anticipated.

Q-was-here wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:The Jazz beat the Wizards tonight. That supposedly rebuilding Jazz team just refuses to fade. Vanderbilt didn't have a good game. But Beasley scored 25 points while shooting over 50% from the field and over 40% from behind the arc. He also added 4 steals to his stat line. He's had far more good games than bad ones so far this season. Meanwhile, Kessler had 12 points, 14 rebounds and 2 blocks in his 32 minutes as the Jazz starting center. Never mind the draft picks, I just have a hard time fathoming any Wolves fan who would prefer having Gobert, Forbes, and Nathan Knight, over Vanderbilt, Beasley and Kessler.

Still, as a Wolves fan I wouldn't even consider trading places with a Wizards fan right now. Once again the Wizards are spiraling down the standards like they did last season. The Wolves can still turn things around this season and they have longer-term pieces like Edwards, McDaniels, Reid and possibly Minott to build around if necessary. But the Wizards are going nowhere and there's no bevy of young talent to salvage their future. At what point do they finally put Beal on the market and blow it up?

I believe Beal has a no-trade clause, but yeah, the Wizards are going nowhere.

Beasley might be the guy we miss the most. Nowell hasn't filled his shoes in a way I had anticipated.

Note how Lip conveniently left Austin Rivers out of the players we added due to the trade. :)

monsterpile wrote:

Q-was-here wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:The Jazz beat the Wizards tonight. That supposedly rebuilding Jazz team just refuses to fade. Vanderbilt didn't have a good game. But Beasley scored 25 points while shooting over 50% from the field and over 40% from behind the arc. He also added 4 steals to his stat line. He's had far more good games than bad ones so far this season. Meanwhile, Kessler had 12 points, 14 rebounds and 2 blocks in his 32 minutes as the Jazz starting center. Never mind the draft picks, I just have a hard time fathoming any Wolves fan who would prefer having Gobert, Forbes, and Nathan Knight, over Vanderbilt, Beasley and Kessler.

Still, as a Wolves fan I wouldn't even consider trading places with a Wizards fan right now. Once again the Wizards are spiraling down the standards like they did last season. The Wolves can still turn things around this season and they have longer-term pieces like Edwards, McDaniels, Reid and possibly Minott to build around if necessary. But the Wizards are going nowhere and there's no bevy of young talent to salvage their future. At what point do they finally put Beal on the market and blow it up?

I believe Beal has a no-trade clause, but yeah, the Wizards are going nowhere.

Beasley might be the guy we miss the most. Nowell hasn't filled his shoes in a way I had anticipated.

Note how Lip conveniently left Austin Rivers out of the players we added due to the trade. :)

I'm not the most perceptive guy, but I'm starting to get the idea lip didn't like the gobert trade

I can't blame anyone for not liking the Rudy Gobert trade. I certainly wasn't a fan of it nor would I have done it myself. But at this point we can't go back and undo it so the Timberwolves, and Chris Finch, need to make it work effectively, or as good as it can get. And there are some ways where it can be very successful.

If it doesn't work, and we have a full 82-game schedule to assess it, then they need to have the gumption to self-correct and retool the roster -- even if it means flipping Gobert to his third team.

monsterpile wrote:

Q-was-here wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:The Jazz beat the Wizards tonight. That supposedly rebuilding Jazz team just refuses to fade. Vanderbilt didn't have a good game. But Beasley scored 25 points while shooting over 50% from the field and over 40% from behind the arc. He also added 4 steals to his stat line. He's had far more good games than bad ones so far this season. Meanwhile, Kessler had 12 points, 14 rebounds and 2 blocks in his 32 minutes as the Jazz starting center. Never mind the draft picks, I just have a hard time fathoming any Wolves fan who would prefer having Gobert, Forbes, and Nathan Knight, over Vanderbilt, Beasley and Kessler.

Still, as a Wolves fan I wouldn't even consider trading places with a Wizards fan right now. Once again the Wizards are spiraling down the standards like they did last season. The Wolves can still turn things around this season and they have longer-term pieces like Edwards, McDaniels, Reid and possibly Minott to build around if necessary. But the Wizards are going nowhere and there's no bevy of young talent to salvage their future. At what point do they finally put Beal on the market and blow it up?

I believe Beal has a no-trade clause, but yeah, the Wizards are going nowhere.

Beasley might be the guy we miss the most. Nowell hasn't filled his shoes in a way I had anticipated.

Note how Lip conveniently left Austin Rivers out of the players we added due to the trade. :)

Lol. left him out because we could have signed him even without the Gobert trade by swapping Bolmaro for a true late 2nd-round pick. The Wolves signed Slo Mo before trading for Gobert and I think they would have targeted Rivers even if they hadn't traded for Rudy. Forbes was the guy they tabbed it replace Beasley's three-point shooting. Knight took the roster spot that Kessler would have had and of course Rudy took Vanderbilt's spot.