Minnesota Sports Forum

Just a quick question. Do we find it at all odd the two most competitve win at all costs were both jettisoned from the Wolves and both have an extreme hatred for the front office? Maybe Butler was right. As a competitive guy myself I wouldnt be very happy with someone half assing it either. Butler lead us to the playoffs. Kat hasnt sniffed the playoffs and always gets a free pass. In fact he is getting a free pass this offseason. Granted his mother passed away and that is unfortunate Kat seems very entitled and those type of guys never win. The simple fact that Butler took a team of backups against our starters and beat them shows all you need to know about Kats mindset. I know Kat is an amazing talent but I dont see him putting in the efforts needed to win. Winners win, losers make excuses.

crazysauce wrote:Just a quick question. Do we find it at all odd the two most competitve win at all costs were both jettisoned from the Wolves and both have an extreme hatred for the front office? Maybe Butler was right. As a competitive guy myself I wouldnt be very happy with someone half assing it either. Butler lead us to the playoffs. Kat hasnt sniffed the playoffs and always gets a free pass. In fact he is getting a free pass this offseason. Granted his mother passed away and that is unfortunate Kat seems very entitled and those type of guys never win. The simple fact that Butler took a team of backups against our starters and beat them shows all you need to know about Kats mindset. I know Kat is an amazing talent but I dont see him putting in the efforts needed to win. Winners win, losers make excuses.

KG has hatred for the owner, didn't have hatred for the front office of basketball operations, while Butler hated his teammates rather than the front office (Thibs was the FO, and he was upset that Wiggins/Towns got paid before him). Maybe you could argue Butler was upset with the FO with how they handled who got paid, but it really would go down to his own guy, Thibs.

I agree with you that KAT, along with a lot of young NBA players come in with a different work ethic than those in the generation before. I also agree that it keeps Towns from hitting his ceiling, but even though Towns was the leader of the team that went to the playoffs, Towns was a big part of that as well. I hope that Towns takes his game to another gear this year and goes from a talented pup to an alpha wolf.

Though I agree with a lot of your general message, I think the Wolves are in a quandary, because they had to pick him at #1, and he's every bit of talent that we wished for, we just have to hope he takes a leadership step...which is more than just being the best player on the team, or a player who talks to the press and team. It's the player on the team that takes it personally when his team loses, a player who doesn't blame those around him for the team losing because he knows it's his job to lift his team. That could mean extra effort on defense, it could mean being more physical on offense (and defense) and being an enforcer, but what it does mean is full effort all of the time.

2017 NBA Draft class extension summary:

Max: J. Tatum (BOS), D. Fox (SAC), D. Mitchell (UTA), B. Adebayo (MIA)

Others (by AAV): J. Isaac (ORL) - $20m, D. White (SAN) - $18.2m, OG Anunoby (TOR) - $18m, M. Fultz (ORL) - $16.7m, L. Kennard (LAC) - $14-16m, K. Kuzma (LAL) $13.3m

kekgeek1 wrote:2017 NBA Draft class extension summary:

Max: J. Tatum (BOS), D. Fox (SAC), D. Mitchell (UTA), B. Adebayo (MIA)

Others (by AAV): J. Isaac (ORL) - $20m, D. White (SAN) - $18.2m, OG Anunoby (TOR) - $18m, M. Fultz (ORL) - $16.7m, L. Kennard (LAC) - $14-16m, K. Kuzma (LAL) $13.3m

What pops out to me is the Luke Kennard deal. He was essentially traded from Detroit for the 19th-overall pick that turned out to be Saddiq Bey. Kennard (four-year, $64M) is also on a comparable deal to Minnesota's own Malik Beasley (four-year, $60M) albeit with the latter having a team option on that final year which is significant.

I'm tossing hindsight out of the question because I wasn't excited about the trade that brought Beasley -- and Hernangomez -- to Minnesota in the first place.

Firstly, how much better is this team with Robert Covington still on the roster? It seems like he'd be an ideal wing/forward for this group and he's still on a cost-effective contract. He recently turned 30, but so did Ricky Rubio so I can't say that he's necessarily too old for this group based on that. Covington slides in next to Karl-Anthony Towns, D'Angelo Russell, and Anthony Edwards moving forward? That's exciting and theoretically cohesive.

Alternatively, how much better is this team if they were holding on to picks 17 and 22 on draft night while retaining their full MLE and not having to use it on Hernangomez? Let's hypothetically say the Wolves jump in the mix for Kennard using the 17th overall pick. Is Kennard objectively better than Beasley? Yes. Is he an off-court concern like Beasley? No. Is the money factor comparable? Absolutely.

They would still have 22 to use as a draft selection, or perhaps they still make an effort for Ricky Rubio considering how zoned in this front office gets on targeted players. Does Oklahoma City do 22 for Rubio and 28? That's conceivable.

I'm playing with ideas here, but my point is that I think Minnesota handcuffed themselves at last year's trade deadline. I think Gerrson Rosas got so caught up in flipping the roster and making moves that he got ahead of himself. I liked the Russell trade, but he got married to Beasley and Hernangomez prematurely without a good reason to do so. In either route that I laid out above -- retaining Covington or acquiring Kennard -- the Wolves are likely better off. That's the unfortunate truth as far as I see it.

Camden wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:2017 NBA Draft class extension summary:

Max: J. Tatum (BOS), D. Fox (SAC), D. Mitchell (UTA), B. Adebayo (MIA)

Others (by AAV): J. Isaac (ORL) - $20m, D. White (SAN) - $18.2m, OG Anunoby (TOR) - $18m, M. Fultz (ORL) - $16.7m, L. Kennard (LAC) - $14-16m, K. Kuzma (LAL) $13.3m

What pops out to me is the Luke Kennard deal. He was essentially traded from Detroit for the 19th-overall pick that turned out to be Saddiq Bey. Kennard (four-year, $64M) is also on a comparable deal to Minnesota's own Malik Beasley (four-year, $60M) albeit with the latter having a team option on that final year which is significant.

I'm tossing hindsight out of the question because I wasn't excited about the trade that brought Beasley -- and Hernangomez -- to Minnesota in the first place.

Firstly, how much better is this team with Robert Covington still on the roster? It seems like he'd be an ideal wing/forward for this group and he's still on a cost-effective contract. He recently turned 30, but so did Ricky Rubio so I can't say that he's necessarily too old for this group based on that. Covington slides in next to Karl-Anthony Towns, D'Angelo Russell, and Anthony Edwards moving forward? That's exciting and theoretically cohesive.

Alternatively, how much better is this team if they were holding on to picks 17 and 22 on draft night while retaining their full MLE and not having to use it on Hernangomez? Let's hypothetically say the Wolves jump in the mix for Kennard using the 17th overall pick. Is Kennard objectively better than Beasley? Yes. Is he an off-court concern like Beasley? No. Is the money factor comparable? Absolutely.

They would still have 22 to use as a draft selection, or perhaps they still make an effort for Ricky Rubio considering how zoned in this front office gets on targeted players. Does Oklahoma City do 22 for Rubio and 28? That's conceivable.

I'm playing with ideas here, but my point is that I think Minnesota handcuffed themselves at last year's trade deadline. I think Gerrson Rosas got so caught up in flipping the roster and making moves that he got ahead of himself. I liked the Russell trade, but he got married to Beasley and Hernangomez prematurely without a good reason to do so. In either route that I laid out above -- retaining Covington or acquiring Kennard -- the Wolves are likely better off. That's the unfortunate truth as far as I see it.

The one rub with Kennard is the health (doesn't he have bad knees)... vs... the knuckle-headedness of Beasley. And... he actually might be even worse defensively, which aint easy to do.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:The one rub with Kennard is the health (doesn't he have bad knees)... vs... the knuckle-headedness of Beasley. And... he actually might be even worse defensively, which aint easy to do.

It depends on how series you view patellar tendinitis and if you think he'll have chronic issues with it. Most common forms of tendinitis are solved with rest. Apparently, Luke Kennard was capable of playing again back in March, but the season was already postponed. Prior to last year, he played in 73 and 63 games, respectively, so I wouldn't be too concerned based on that. Obviously, these teams have medical staffs for more than one reason.

And defensively, it's probably a wash, although Kennard actually grades out much better than Beasley. Regardless, Kennard's a much more well-rounded offensive player with a better history of production to this point. I know I'd feel better about having him on this team than Beasley for sure.