Minnesota Sports Forum

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Only in the NBA. LOL. Time for my idea of a separate league with competitive balance?

Enjoy the D-League or WNBA if you want that. The NBA has always had dynasties and that is not a bad thing.

Other than San Antonio, what dynasties have happened in small markets? I've seen Boston (4 times), the Lakers (3 Times), Chicago, and Golden State. If dynasties are only going to happen in major markets, what's the point? Show me Milwaukee vs Utah in the finals 4 straight years and I'll agree with you.

I don't expect the Wolves to necessarily win championships even though I'd love it if they did. I simply expect the Wolves to be in the running for an extended period (several yrs at least). By that I mean the Wolves as a team that other teams and observers consider a legitimate title contender. When you look at it that way, the list expands well beyond LA, Chicago, Boston and Golden State to include non-iconic franchises and even smaller markets. It includes San Antonio (several iterations over many years), Utah (in the Stockton/Malone era), Phoenix (Barkley era), Indiana (Reggie Miller era), Atlanta (Dominique Wilkins era), Cleveland (2 different LeBron eras and the Daugherty/Nance/Price era), Houston (Hakeem era), Dallas (Nowitski era, which included a championship), Miami (Wade/Shaq era, then Wade LeBron era), Portland (Walton era, Drexler era), Seattle (Gary Payton/Kemp era), OKC (Durant/Westbrook era). Note also that the Golden State Warriors has never had anything close to the same history or mystique as franchises like the Lakers, Celtics and Knicks. They build their own brand from scratch.

What do all those teams you mentioned have in common they have players who are top 50 to ever play the game. So how do you suggest we get that player. Kat needs to dramatically improve but he is probably the one guy on the roster who has any chance to get there or we should blow it all up and do the 76ers process and take our shots. Even the sixers made some really shitty draft picks during their process. So if you suggest tanking again, I can respect that but I just don't think that is realistic.

Duh. You win with great players. So what should the Wolves do? They should keep attempting to augment the team's talent and build a team of similar vintage talent paired with the right head coach. KAT is definitely good enough to envision becoming a great player. So you keep drafting and signing players until you land another elite player or two who can grow and peak at the same time as KAT. You won't hit on every move, probably not on most moves. But you keep trying. We were lucky to get the top draft pick a few years ago, which landed KAT. Wiggins in incredibly gifted. Maybe there's the right coach out there to develop him. Thibs doesn't seem to be. Get the right head coach -- someone in tune with the modern game and able to relate to young players or players generally. As for getting more talent, you don't need to tank. The Warriors got Klay Thompson with the 11th pick and Draymond Green in the second round. Draft a Donovan Mitchell with the 14th pick. Draft Murray instead of Kris Dunn and stick with him. Be patient with Zach LaVine like the Sixers were patient with Joel Embiid. I don't have specific answers, but there's an approach that has proven to work well for non-iconic franchises over the years. That's the model for success. My specific path for the Wolves at this juncture was what I suggested a month ago. Trade Butler to Memphis for the 3rd pick and draft Doncic who could be a franchise players. Or draft Bamba or Jackson with that pick along with Okogie and Bates-Diop.

Who knows, maybe Thibs drafted one or two gems in Okogie and Bates-Diop. If so, perhaps this team is actually on the right track already. We'll have to see.

lipoli390 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:With cuz taking 1 year and irving with a year left, i would not be surprised to see jimmy decline the extension with us in order to form a team with his friends somewhere else like brooklyn next year.

I'd be very surprised if Jimmy resigns here. Wolves should trade Butler to LA or Philly and build a franchise around KAT and young talent. The Wolves realistically have no chance at a title in the next three years and Jimmy will be well past his prime by then. The Barking Bozo has set this organization back by aging this roster and going in win-now mode instead of patiently developing young talent.

Fans waited for this franchise to rebuild for over a decade without success. While I get the "title or bust" philosophy, I also appreciate fielding a winning a team, even if it doesn't contend every year. Part of KAT and Wig's development was to actually experience some winning and get a taste of the playoffs.

Q - I just don't buy tasting the playoffs as a key to a young player's development. The Bulls didn't have to bring in older players to carry Jordan, Pippen and Grant into the playoffs. They got there themselves and grew organically together. Same with Curry, Thompson and Green. And in any event, if you take the view that having Butler was important because it got KAT and Wiggins a taste of playoff basketball, I'd say that Butler has served his purpose and it's time to move on by bringing in more young talent so this team can have a longer-term horizon and and extended run when the Warriors and Lakers begin to slide back at least a little.

Here is the thing though Lip, whenever the Warriors and/or Lakers take a step back there will be 3 new super teams ready to take over the NBA. You need to have top tier players to recruit other players or you need to play in a big market. Or get super lucky and have a star player come out of your state (Maybe Matthew Hurt or Jalen Suggs or there is a young 8th grader on Howard Pulley could be that guy in 10 years).

In the end no matter what route we take we are pretty much screwed. That is not Thibs fault, that is not Glenn Taylor fault, that is just the general process of the NBA. Only one small market team has been a dynasty. That is the Spurs who had a top 15 player of all time in Tim Duncan.

Also if Kat and Wiggins can't get us to the playoffs by themselves we should be trading both of them because they are not the players that can ultimately lead us to a championship. I know it is sad but it is the truth.

Geek -- The point is that you don't have to be the Lakers to build a super team. Yes, it's easier for the Lakers. But if you're not a storied franchise in Southern California then you just have to be smart. No one handed it to Golden State. They weren't super lucky. They just made smart decisions. Houston did it a different way, but has succeeded with smart, creative, forward-looking decision-making. I'm not looking to be a dynasty. I'm just looking to do what the Warriors, Celtics and Sixers have done recently. OKC was getting it done until they became gun-shy when it came to the luxury tax and let Harden go. Even then, they almost made the NBA finals with Durant and Westbrook after a multi-year run as a legitimate title contender. None of those organizations have been super lucky and none of them landed the players they have now because of the markets they're in. That's simply inaccurate. Thorpe mentioned that he's never heard a player who played for the Wolves who didn't love Minneapolis. So yes, it definitely IS Thibodeau's fault and it IS Glen Taylor's fault. There are plenty of examples of NBA success behind the few storied NBA franchises and the few mega markets. That's the reality. And Wolves fans stop whining about our market and see things as they really are, the mediocrity will continue.

Then we should blow it all up. We should trade wiggins for cap filler. Trade Butler for draft picks and Trade Kat for a kings ransom. Lets suck for years again and hope we can obtain some all time great players in the draft (I am not trying to come off as a whiny bitch, even though my post sounds like it).

I mean Warriors got somewhat lucky that 6 picks past up on the best shooter of all time in Curry. 10 teams passed on Klay. 30 Teams passed on Draymond. There is some luck to that including skill on identify who could be good. They got lucky that Curry had ankle problems so he didn't get the max after his first contract, allowing them to sign KD on the one season where the cap spike happened because the players association wanted the spike in one year instead of a spread out cap increase, allowing this unbeatable super team.

76ers have made terrible decisions they drafted Okafor who could be out of the league, Noel who just signed for the min after his first year. They got lucky that Embiid got hurt pre-draft or Wiggins would be a sixer and Embiid would be a wolf. They traded Taytum and a pick for a guy who forgot how to shoot in Fultz. But it is all forgiven because they hit on 2 players who have a shot to be top 50 players to ever play the game in Embiid and Simmons.

I don't disagree with you that it is not impossible to build up a damn good team from a small market, but we need to have a shit ton of assets to keep taking shots at hopefully franchise changing players. Right now nobody on our team is a franchise changing player besides maybe Kat and he has a long ways to go.

So we should just hit the reset button, trade everyone and hopefully this time, Kahn selects Curry, Trades Flynn for George, maybe selects George like he wanted to over Wes Johnson but he was afraid of media backlash. Hopefully Embiid doesn't get hurt this time and we can trade Love for Embiid instead of Wiggins. Hopefully Flip decides to draft the Greak Freak over Bazz. Hopefully all of the assets we obtain from trading Kat, Butler, Wiggins, Teague, Taj. We can finally hit on multiple franchise changing players at once. We were possibly close Wiggins, Kat and Lavine but especially Wiggins and Lavine they weren't those franchise changing players.

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:With cuz taking 1 year and irving with a year left, i would not be surprised to see jimmy decline the extension with us in order to form a team with his friends somewhere else like brooklyn next year.

I'd be very surprised if Jimmy resigns here. Wolves should trade Butler to LA or Philly and build a franchise around KAT and young talent. The Wolves realistically have no chance at a title in the next three years and Jimmy will be well past his prime by then. The Barking Bozo has set this organization back by aging this roster and going in win-now mode instead of patiently developing young talent.

Fans waited for this franchise to rebuild for over a decade without success. While I get the "title or bust" philosophy, I also appreciate fielding a winning a team, even if it doesn't contend every year. Part of KAT and Wig's development was to actually experience some winning and get a taste of the playoffs.

Q - I just don't buy tasting the playoffs as a key to a young player's development. The Bulls didn't have to bring in older players to carry Jordan, Pippen and Grant into the playoffs. They got there themselves and grew organically together. Same with Curry, Thompson and Green. And in any event, if you take the view that having Butler was important because it got KAT and Wiggins a taste of playoff basketball, I'd say that Butler has served his purpose and it's time to move on by bringing in more young talent so this team can have a longer-term horizon and and extended run when the Warriors and Lakers begin to slide back at least a little.

Here is the thing though Lip, whenever the Warriors and/or Lakers take a step back there will be 3 new super teams ready to take over the NBA. You need to have top tier players to recruit other players or you need to play in a big market. Or get super lucky and have a star player come out of your state (Maybe Matthew Hurt or Jalen Suggs or there is a young 8th grader on Howard Pulley could be that guy in 10 years).

In the end no matter what route we take we are pretty much screwed. That is not Thibs fault, that is not Glenn Taylor fault, that is just the general process of the NBA. Only one small market team has been a dynasty. That is the Spurs who had a top 15 player of all time in Tim Duncan.

Also if Kat and Wiggins can't get us to the playoffs by themselves we should be trading both of them because they are not the players that can ultimately lead us to a championship. I know it is sad but it is the truth.

Geek -- The point is that you don't have to be the Lakers to build a super team. Yes, it's easier for the Lakers. But if you're not a storied franchise in Southern California then you just have to be smart. No one handed it to Golden State. They weren't super lucky. They just made smart decisions. Houston did it a different way, but has succeeded with smart, creative, forward-looking decision-making. I'm not looking to be a dynasty. I'm just looking to do what the Warriors, Celtics and Sixers have done recently. OKC was getting it done until they became gun-shy when it came to the luxury tax and let Harden go. Even then, they almost made the NBA finals with Durant and Westbrook after a multi-year run as a legitimate title contender. None of those organizations have been super lucky and none of them landed the players they have now because of the markets they're in. That's simply inaccurate. Thorpe mentioned that he's never heard a player who played for the Wolves who didn't love Minneapolis. So yes, it definitely IS Thibodeau's fault and it IS Glen Taylor's fault. There are plenty of examples of NBA success behind the few storied NBA franchises and the few mega markets. That's the reality. And Wolves fans stop whining about our market and see things as they really are, the mediocrity will continue.

Then we should blow it all up. We should trade wiggins for cap filler. Trade Butler for draft picks and Trade Kat for a kings ransom. Lets suck for years again and hope we can obtain some all time great players in the draft (I am not trying to come off as a whiny bitch, even though my post sounds like it).

I mean Warriors got somewhat lucky that 6 picks past up on the best shooter of all time in Curry. 10 teams passed on Klay. 30 Teams passed on Draymond. There is some luck to that including skill on identify who could be good. They got lucky that Curry had ankle problems so he didn't get the max after his first contract, allowing them to sign KD on the one season where the cap spike happened because the players association wanted the spike in one year instead of a spread out cap increase, allowing this unbeatable super team.

76ers have made terrible decisions they drafted Okafor who could be out of the league, Noel who just signed for the min after his first year. They got lucky that Embiid got hurt pre-draft or Wiggins would be a sixer and Embiid would be a wolf. They traded Taytum and a pick for a guy who forgot how to shoot in Fultz. But it is all forgiven because they hit on 2 players who have a shot to be top 50 players to ever play the game in Embiid and Simmons.

I don't disagree with you that it is not impossible to build up a damn good team from a small market, but we need to have a shit ton of assets to keep taking shots at hopefully franchise changing players. Right now nobody on our team is a franchise changing player besides maybe Kat and he has a long ways to go.

So we should just hit the reset button, trade everyone and hopefully this time, Kahn selects Curry, Trades Flynn for George, maybe selects George like he wanted to over Wes Johnson but he was afraid of media backlash. Hopefully Embiid doesn't get hurt this time and we can trade Love for Embiid instead of Wiggins. Hopefully Flip decides to draft the Greak Freak over Bazz. Hopefully all of the assets we obtain from trading Kat, Butler, Wiggins, Teague, Taj. We can finally hit on multiple franchise changing players at once. We were possibly close Wiggins, Kat and Lavine but especially Wiggins and Lavine they weren't those franchise changing players.

No, we shouldn't blow it up. We should retool around KAT and Tyus while giving Wiggins one more season to break through. If he fails to break through, then we get the best deal for him we can next summer. Meanwhile we trade Butler for a combination of young talent and draft picks. Maybe trade Butler to the Celtics for Tatum or Jaylen Brown. If the Celtics say no, then trade him to the Celtics for the King's first round pick the Celtics got from the Sixers along with salar-matching players. Or maybe there are better alternatives. You don't have to nor should you "blow it up."

Per Shams:

"Sources: Free agent Avery Bradley has agreed to a 2 year, $25M deal with the Clippers."

So that was one of the real potential needle movers in FA that we could have hoped for (if healthy) and he was out of our price range which is no surprise.

More than i thought he would get.

It's going to be interesting to see what parker and lavine get.

Gordon already got a near 4 year max while randle got 2 years @ 9 per.

Lol, now tyreke evans is being with the warriors.

Mike scott to the clippers.

The wiz have nothing in the frontcourt, i have no idea what they are doing. They lost out on all the bigs. The are going to have to overpay kyle oquinn because i think he's thelast decent big left.

Wiggins and Gibson (expiring) for Love and Korver. Who says no?

crazy-canuck wrote:Mike scott to the clippers.

The wiz have nothing in the frontcourt, i have no idea what they are doing. They lost out on all the bigs. The are going to have to overpay kyle oquinn because i think he's thelast decent big left.

They still have options like Dwight also. They claimed Thomas Bryant who was waived by the Lakers. Not a bad flyer to take. Then there is this...

https://twitter.com/hoopdistrictdc/status/1013844276038561793?s=21

Ernie Grunfeld said the #Wizards are comfortable with Ian Mahinmi as the team's starting center: "He's a proven starting center. He's won playoff series as a starting center. ... We would be comfortable with that."

monsterpile wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:Mike scott to the clippers.

The wiz have nothing in the frontcourt, i have no idea what they are doing. They lost out on all the bigs. The are going to have to overpay kyle oquinn because i think he's thelast decent big left.

They still have options like Dwight also. They claimed Thomas Bryant who was waived by the Lakers. Not a bad flyer to take. Then there is this...

https://twitter.com/hoopdistrictdc/status/1013844276038561793?s=21

Ernie Grunfeld said the #Wizards are comfortable with Ian Mahinmi as the team's starting center: "He's a proven starting center. He's won playoff series as a starting center. ... We would be comfortable with that."

I can see Dwight Howard in Washington. It makes some sense. Wall would find him rolling to the bucket.

He's a better version of Gortat (if he can set some solid screens). And that team is already dysfunctional with personalities.