I think we have more than a few Americans who would prefer women not to vote... black people to eat elsewhere... and children to be beaten instead of taught...
You are taking this a different direction and inserting inflammatory things that certainly didn't come from anything I've written. Who said woman can't vote or black people have to eat elsewhere?
My point was some fear/force is ok to maintain order (In my opinion). Example: give Coolbreeze 5 minutes with you in person and you might behave differently than you do over the internet. People tend to poke the bear when there are not any repercussions. Once the bear retaliates, a valuable lesson is learned and the poking stops.
Ha. Cool is an angry old man who gets really super duper angry over dumb stuff, whether it's loony political conspiracy theories or people using stats to suggest Andrew Wiggins sorta stinks. He's been very incendiary and inflammatory over the years in disagreements. We all have our foibles (me included) and it's important to laugh at ourselves and not take things too seriously. So I have no problem poking him for it. Unless he's holding a hose and some neighborhood kids happen to trample his lawn... he's entirely harmless.
______________
As noted... human behaviors change. 40 years ago... corporal punishment was pretty standard. 20 years before that... blacks couldn't eat at the same restaurants as whites. 40 years prior to that... women couldn't vote.
Some might suggest that our (mostly) collective attitudes change and we learn and grow and evolve. And we call opine on why it happens... including that we're all lackeys to the "those in power" who force us to change.
But when I think to myself that maybe adults don't need to beatbeat children to get them to listen... I don't think it comes from a place of following the whims of some global elitist cabal and more from a place of I think there's a better way for a 180 lb man to teach a 60 lb kid how to behave than beating them into submissionbeating them into submission.
Look at the inflammatory words/phrases that you use. Is a swat on the butt "beating a kid into submission"? Why are you bringing gender and race into this? THIS is the problem with today's America (in my mind). Everyone is outraged and must reinforce their outrage by bringing up even more outrageous things like "black people can't eat in our restaurants and woman can't vote." What do those things have to do with police de-escalation techniques? You've only reinforced my opinion that you need 5 minutes in person with CoolBreeze.
Huh? I'm just offering some examples of how some pretty macro attitudes changed about certain things. We can switch it to something more fitting the basketball board and make it about three pointers or fewer post-ups or switching automatically to defend the PnR if that's less inflammatory (even though I think my point gets lost in translation a bit).
And to be fair, those more micro issues are probably not forced on us by some mythical global force making us assimilate as you suggested.
But that's all largely irrelevant... Many would consider giving a kid "a knot on the head" a beating... or a beatdown. There's a very large difference from a spanking to that, which you also seem to have acknowledged.
So what's the problem here (other than you really trying to incite an Abe vs. Cool donnybrook?) LMAO.
[Edit: Way to edit out "There might be a time and place for a good spanking... " from my post you quoted. :) ]
Huh? I'm just offering some examples of how some pretty macro attitudes changed about certain things. We can switch it to something more fitting the basketball board and make it about three pointers or fewer post-ups or switching automatically to defend the PnR if that's less inflammatory (even though I think my point gets lost in translation a bit).
And to be fair, those more micro issues are probably not forced on us by some mythical global force making us assimilate as you suggested.
But that's all largely irrelevant... Many would consider giving a kid "a knot on the head" a beating... or a beatdown. There's a very large difference from a spanking to that, which you also seem to have acknowledged.
So what's the problem here (other than you really trying to incite an Abe vs. Cool donnybrook?) LMAO.
90% of what you've written in your multiple responses is irrelevant to my point which was some force/fear is ok IMO to maintain order. That's my opinion. I provided some personal background as to why I feel that way. You can disagree. That's fine. But don't spew stupid bullshit about race/gender in an attempt to further your argument. They are not relevant, inflammatory and certainly don't fit into the context of the discussion. That's my problem.
I think we have more than a few Americans who would prefer women not to vote... black people to eat elsewhere... and children to be beaten instead of taught...
You are taking this a different direction and inserting inflammatory things that certainly didn't come from anything I've written. Who said woman can't vote or black people have to eat elsewhere?
My point was some fear/force is ok to maintain order (In my opinion). Example: give Coolbreeze 5 minutes with you in person and you might behave differently than you do over the internet. People tend to poke the bear when there are not any repercussions. Once the bear retaliates, a valuable lesson is learned and the poking stops.
Ha. Cool is an angry old man who gets really super duper angry over dumb stuff, whether it's loony political conspiracy theories or people using stats to suggest Andrew Wiggins sorta stinks. He's been very incendiary and inflammatory over the years in disagreements. We all have our foibles (me included) and it's important to laugh at ourselves and not take things too seriously. So I have no problem poking him for it. Unless he's holding a hose and some neighborhood kids happen to trample his lawn... he's entirely harmless.
______________
As noted... human behaviors change. 40 years ago... corporal punishment was pretty standard. 20 years before that... blacks couldn't eat at the same restaurants as whites. 40 years prior to that... women couldn't vote.
Some might suggest that our (mostly) collective attitudes change and we learn and grow and evolve. And we call opine on why it happens... including that we're all lackeys to the "those in power" who force us to change.
But when I think to myself that maybe adults don't need to beatbeat children to get them to listen... I don't think it comes from a place of following the whims of some global elitist cabal and more from a place of I think there's a better way for a 180 lb man to teach a 60 lb kid how to behave than beating them into submissionbeating them into submission.
Look at the inflammatory words/phrases that you use. Is a swat on the butt "beating a kid into submission"? Why are you bringing gender and race into this? THIS is the problem with today's America (in my mind). Everyone is outraged and must reinforce their outrage by bringing up even more outrageous things like "black people can't eat in our restaurants and woman can't vote." What do those things have to do with police de-escalation techniques? You've only reinforced my opinion that you need 5 minutes in person with CoolBreeze.
Huh? I'm just offering some examples of how some pretty macro attitudes changed about certain things. We can switch it to something more fitting the basketball board and make it about three pointers or fewer post-ups or switching automatically to defend the PnR if that's less inflammatory (even though I think my point gets lost in translation a bit).
And to be fair, those more micro issues are probably not forced on us by some mythical global force making us assimilate as you suggested.
But that's all largely irrelevant... Many would consider giving a kid "a knot on the head" a beating... or a beatdown. There's a very large difference from a spanking to that, which you also seem to have acknowledged.
So what's the problem here (other than you really trying to incite an Abe vs. Cool donnybrook?) LMAO.
[Edit: Way to edit out "There might be a time and place for a good spanking... " from my post you quoted. :) ]
Sigh. OK. You are a perpetual victim. I get it. Actually I believe what happened was I quoted our original post and was responding while you were editing it what you wrote. That's why I didn't capture it in my quote. But feel free to feel the victim.
Carlos Danger wrote:
IMO there definitely seems to be a change in the level of respect kids (and adults) give to authority. It's that lack of respect that seems to be the flash point for some of the bad things that are happening. I'm not condoning bad cops. I'm just saying you have to give respect to get respect.
Agreed - Respect is mostly a learned behavior and if it is not taught at home or in the schools those individuals that don't have it are going to struggle. We as a society should focus on solutions for this instead of beating down hope with a victim mentality.
Huh? I'm just offering some examples of how some pretty macro attitudes changed about certain things. We can switch it to something more fitting the basketball board and make it about three pointers or fewer post-ups or switching automatically to defend the PnR if that's less inflammatory (even though I think my point gets lost in translation a bit).
And to be fair, those more micro issues are probably not forced on us by some mythical global force making us assimilate as you suggested.
But that's all largely irrelevant... Many would consider giving a kid "a knot on the head" a beating... or a beatdown. There's a very large difference from a spanking to that, which you also seem to have acknowledged.
So what's the problem here (other than you really trying to incite an Abe vs. Cool donnybrook?) LMAO.
90% of what you've written in your multiple responses is irrelevant to my point which was some force/fear is ok IMO to maintain order. That's my opinion. I provided some personal background as to why I feel that way. You can disagree. That's fine. But don't spew stupid bullshit about race/gender in an attempt to further your argument. They are not relevant, inflammatory and certainly don't fit into the context of the discussion. That's my problem.
I'm specifically talking about corporal punishment with kids... and how our collective attitudes to it have changed/evolved over the years... like it has with other issues, whether race, attitudes toward women, proliferation of three point attempts or five-minute fights between two grown men who met online. You can choose whatever appropriate example works for you to show how our attitudes on a particular topic has changed over time. (although corporal punishment still has a >50% favorable rating despite being on a downward trend)
To summarize:
- I think beating kids to the point they have "knots" on their head is wrong. And that there are probably 397,543 possible other reasons why your nieces and nephews continue to misbehave that have nothing to do with a lack of corporal punishment.
- I don't think maintaining order as a society with police using force when appropriate is wrong.
I don't even think those things are related. All cool here?
I think we have more than a few Americans who would prefer women not to vote... black people to eat elsewhere... and children to be beaten instead of taught...
You are taking this a different direction and inserting inflammatory things that certainly didn't come from anything I've written. Who said woman can't vote or black people have to eat elsewhere?
My point was some fear/force is ok to maintain order (In my opinion). Example: give Coolbreeze 5 minutes with you in person and you might behave differently than you do over the internet. People tend to poke the bear when there are not any repercussions. Once the bear retaliates, a valuable lesson is learned and the poking stops.
Ha. Cool is an angry old man who gets really super duper angry over dumb stuff, whether it's loony political conspiracy theories or people using stats to suggest Andrew Wiggins sorta stinks. He's been very incendiary and inflammatory over the years in disagreements. We all have our foibles (me included) and it's important to laugh at ourselves and not take things too seriously. So I have no problem poking him for it. Unless he's holding a hose and some neighborhood kids happen to trample his lawn... he's entirely harmless.
______________
As noted... human behaviors change. 40 years ago... corporal punishment was pretty standard. 20 years before that... blacks couldn't eat at the same restaurants as whites. 40 years prior to that... women couldn't vote.
Some might suggest that our (mostly) collective attitudes change and we learn and grow and evolve. And we call opine on why it happens... including that we're all lackeys to the "those in power" who force us to change.
But when I think to myself that maybe adults don't need to beatbeat children to get them to listen... I don't think it comes from a place of following the whims of some global elitist cabal and more from a place of I think there's a better way for a 180 lb man to teach a 60 lb kid how to behave than beating them into submissionbeating them into submission.
Look at the inflammatory words/phrases that you use. Is a swat on the butt "beating a kid into submission"? Why are you bringing gender and race into this? THIS is the problem with today's America (in my mind). Everyone is outraged and must reinforce their outrage by bringing up even more outrageous things like "black people can't eat in our restaurants and woman can't vote." What do those things have to do with police de-escalation techniques? You've only reinforced my opinion that you need 5 minutes in person with CoolBreeze.
Huh? I'm just offering some examples of how some pretty macro attitudes changed about certain things. We can switch it to something more fitting the basketball board and make it about three pointers or fewer post-ups or switching automatically to defend the PnR if that's less inflammatory (even though I think my point gets lost in translation a bit).
And to be fair, those more micro issues are probably not forced on us by some mythical global force making us assimilate as you suggested.
But that's all largely irrelevant... Many would consider giving a kid "a knot on the head" a beating... or a beatdown. There's a very large difference from a spanking to that, which you also seem to have acknowledged.
So what's the problem here (other than you really trying to incite an Abe vs. Cool donnybrook?) LMAO.
[Edit: Way to edit out "There might be a time and place for a good spanking... " from my post you quoted. :) ]
Sigh. OK. You are a perpetual victim. I get it. Actually I believe what happened was I quoted our original post and was responding while you were editing it what you wrote. That's why I didn't capture it in my quote. But feel free to feel the victim.
Stop. We can all see the game you're playing here.
- removing my "There might be a time and place for a good spanking... " to focus on my "inflammatory" use of the word "beating" is so disingenuous.
And that kind of stuff is creating 91% of the problem here. ;-)
Carlos Danger wrote:
IMO there definitely seems to be a change in the level of respect kids (and adults) give to authority. It's that lack of respect that seems to be the flash point for some of the bad things that are happening. I'm not condoning bad cops. I'm just saying you have to give respect to get respect.
Agreed - Respect is mostly a learned behavior and if it is not taught at home or in the schools those individuals that don't have it are going to struggle. We as a society should focus on solutions for this instead of beating down hope with a victim mentality.
How much should the schools be "teaching" stuff outside the curriculum? Isn't that part of the problem for many?
But beyond that, I think there's only so much they can do on that front. Usually, the kids who are showing a lack of respect have that ingrained in them before they reach school age... and it's only emboldened over time when they're not in school. After all, they're only in school about 30 hours per week. That gives bad parents about 138 hours to really mess up their kids.
I think it ultimately starts and ends at home. Unfortunately, there's such a wide swath of parenting styles or even fit vs. unfit parents... And that leads to a very deep, depressing rabbit hole...
Stop. We can all see the game you're playing here.
- removing my "There might be a time and place for a good spanking... " to focus on my "inflammatory" use of the word "beating" is so disingenuous.
And that kind of stuff is creating 91% of the problem here. ;-)
Feel free to check the time stamps Columbo. Obviously if you edit a post after I quote your original, it's not going to be captured. What a stupid and petty thing to worry about anyhow. Dude - you are a button pusher. Back to my original point. Being a button pusher on the internet works fine. You can type whatever you want without concern/fear of force. But if we were in the same room, you would behave differently - I'm very confident of that. It's human nature. We have not evolved past that - sorry to break it to you.
Abe - That is a good question about the teaching environment. To me, it is about holding kids accountable for respecting teachers and other students. When this can't happen it can and will spread to other students which negatively impacts education overall. When you run into that kids you need to understand likely problems and have a plan to address them via engaging the parents and even engaging child protective services is serious. We need better laws to support this.
The real solution though is limiting kids being born into no-win situations. I think a deep statistical analysis of areas that would make the most impact would be needed and cost to address the problem.
Example: Children that are born of individuals that have parents that have committed certain crimes. Those individuals of parenting age could be offered shorter sentences based on birth control measures to avoid them creating a bad parenting environment.
I think we have more than a few Americans who would prefer women not to vote... black people to eat elsewhere... and children to be beaten instead of taught...
You are taking this a different direction and inserting inflammatory things that certainly didn't come from anything I've written. Who said woman can't vote or black people have to eat elsewhere?
My point was some fear/force is ok to maintain order (In my opinion). Example: give Coolbreeze 5 minutes with you in person and you might behave differently than you do over the internet. People tend to poke the bear when there are not any repercussions. Once the bear retaliates, a valuable lesson is learned and the poking stops.
Ha. Cool is an angry old man who gets really super duper angry over dumb stuff, whether it's loony political conspiracy theories or people using stats to suggest Andrew Wiggins sorta stinks. He's been very incendiary and inflammatory over the years in disagreements. We all have our foibles (me included) and it's important to laugh at ourselves and not take things too seriously. So I have no problem poking him for it. Unless he's holding a hose and some neighborhood kids happen to trample his lawn... he's entirely harmless.
______________
As noted... human behaviors change. 40 years ago... corporal punishment was pretty standard. 20 years before that... blacks couldn't eat at the same restaurants as whites. 40 years prior to that... women couldn't vote.
Some might suggest that our (mostly) collective attitudes change and we learn and grow and evolve. And we call opine on why it happens... including that we're all lackeys to the "those in power" who force us to change.
But when I think to myself that maybe adults don't need to beatbeat children to get them to listen... I don't think it comes from a place of following the whims of some global elitist cabal and more from a place of I think there's a better way for a 180 lb man to teach a 60 lb kid how to behave than beating them into submissionbeating them into submission.
Look at the inflammatory words/phrases that you use. Is a swat on the butt "beating a kid into submission"? Why are you bringing gender and race into this? THIS is the problem with today's America (in my mind). Everyone is outraged and must reinforce their outrage by bringing up even more outrageous things like "black people can't eat in our restaurants and woman can't vote." What do those things have to do with police de-escalation techniques? You've only reinforced my opinion that you need 5 minutes in person with CoolBreeze.
Carlos, to get that 5 minutes I would fly to the Twin cities, buy us both tickets to a Wolves game, and buy him dinner beforehand if he wanted it. That paragraph where he attempts to describe who I am and how I act is unbelievable. Who says that about another person they really don't know? I don't know if he thinks he's funny or what, but the amazing thing is no one else seems to challenge his smartest guy in the room comments. That's the primary reason he and I clash, occasionally (not often) I stand up and tell him he's wrong or being a jackass. Either no one else sees this from him, or doesn't care to be mistreated.
Thanks for having the common sense and spine to stand up today and make your points. I also appreciate you giving me this platform to speak on the topic because I will no longer waste my time responding to his posts. I generally don't anyway, but he has a way of fanning the flames that eventually force you to want to reach out. But those days are over. 95% of the board are good guys who I enjoy talking basketball with. Cam and I clash more than anybody on here, but I have 10 times the respect for him that I do Abe. But just like there are good cops and bad cops, you can't expect to get along with everyone. But that isn't going to lessen my experience with the great guys who post here.
