Minnesota Sports Forum

BloopOracle wrote:"But what scares me most is what I've harped on repeatedly this year. If KAT and Wiggins keep getting rewarded (and given excuses) while being heaped with praise without much criticism... WHY would they do what they need to do to improve? Where's the incentive? I want more than hollow "nice-speak" from KAT after this series. It's gonna be Year 4 for him. And Year 5 for Wiggins."

This is why I am still happy making the playoffs even against Houston, Towns and Wiggins are getting consistently killed by the national media. They may very well flame out in the end anyway but at least they are FINALLY getting criticism instead of Hakeem comparisons and max contracts for empty stats.

I think we've seen a sharp U-turn in how Wiggins is perceived. He's been ripped often. And not always accurately either.

But I listened to a prominent NBA podcast on the commute to work today that railed on the strategy without blaming Towns. The one guy kept harping on "only 9 shots"

Well, Towns didn't play much and he took several really bad shots last night. Basically "give up" plays. Sure, some of that is because of where he is on the court. And part of that is him giving up and just launching.


[Note: Now granted, I think the heat on Thibs isn't a bad thing either. Something has to change with him, too. But if there's already a sense of entitlement with Towns... being excused for arguably the worst two playoff games for an All Star in NBA history... won't end well. Who knows. I'm sure he's frustrated and will be determined to learn/improve from it. That's our hope. We'll see how it pans out.]

Is Towns motor the problem?

The lack of optimism here isn't surprising. It's sad how for years we used it all up on a for the most part bunch of guys that didn't deserve it. And guys that probably did are either gone or retired etc. I think most people are looking for the bad stuff. It's understandable. I've seen some positives that nobody seems interested in while mentioning every bad possession and yes the bad possessions are certainly there.

Personally I see a path to be the next Rockets team that looked kinda mired in whatever and then a couple years later are basically a stacked team looking like real title favorites. The Wolves have to improve internally (Q made a good case in another thread for a Tyus being a piece to watch) and also add to their roster. The Rockets took a chance on Eric Gordon staying healthy. Damn that has worked out brilliantly so far. So well that they could trade away a player like Lou Williams and not notice. The Wolves need to add a player or 2 this next offseason and continue improving. You never know what player may fall into their lap a few months from now. There are paths to the next level. I get it if nobody has faith we can get there after all the shitty years we have endured but I'm looking forward to finding out. Yes this team isn't there now but I also feel like these last 2 games we are actually closer than I thought we would be. Last night we left 10-20 points on easy buckets guys usually make. Sure the Rockets didn't score either AND are playing without 2 solid rotation players.

Gerald Green. People are upset that we didn't add him and honestly I was a bit confused why he was available for so long. Think about this:

The Warriors are paying Nick Young over 5 million plus the luxury tax when they could have had Gerald Green for the min which is supplemented by the league and saved a bunch on Lux tax. Which player would you rather have right now? I'd take Gerald Green regardless of the money. Even the supposed smart teams can do stuff that's dumb. Nick Young should thank Luke Walton for getting him the last decent contract he may ever see in the NBA.

monsterpile wrote:The lack of optimism here isn't surprising. It's sad how for years we used it all up on a for the most part bunch of guys that didn't deserve it. And guys that probably did are either gone or retired etc. I think most people are looking for the bad stuff. It's understandable. I've seen some positives that nobody seems interested in while mentioning every bad possession and yes the bad possessions are certainly there.

It really is an odd part of this forum...

For YEARS... I had to talk down many posters for almost unbridled optimism while watching the Wolves lose between 42 - 67 games.

I did NOT expect this much negativity as we've seen almost all season from a squad that went 47 - 35. Not saying it's not granted at times... but it'll be interesting if that optimism many had even in those down years is gone forever or if it's just a case of trying to adjust to following a team with expectations...

KAT has to do better at the little things and that will do wonders to get his game going and the rest of the team. His screens are virtually non-existent. He can't fight for position well. He's not following his perimeter shots. He's not anywhere near the paint on our jumpers half the time. He should be diving the lane on every shot we put up because he's the tallest guy on the court. He's not doing much to create space on the floor which is your job as a big when you set screens. Set solid screens and you open up the space to do something and get the ball in a dangerous area to score. Set a shitty screen and the ball handler has no options to make a good offensive play. Just watch your shot and give them a majority of the defensive rebounds uncontested or dive the lane and grab a few offensive boards to get some easy put-backs. These little things make guys like Steven Adams and Clint Capela look like really solid players when they have virtually no skill as a basketball player. There's plenty more KAT can do to impact the game outside of scoring and he's just not doing it. I've never understood the motor praise for KAT because to me it always seems like it's there when it benefits him, but not when it's needed to benefit the team. Meanwhile a guy like Wiggins is the opposite this series and looks like he's playing hard every possession. I hope the real Towns shows up and proves me wrong, but so far this has been a worrying series on the offensive end. Do the little things and good things will happen for everyone.

khans2k5 wrote:KAT has to do better at the little things and that will do wonders to get his game going and the rest of the team. His screens are virtually non-existent. He can't fight for position well. He's not following his perimeter shots. He's not anywhere near the paint on our jumpers half the time. He should be diving the lane on every shot we put up because he's the tallest guy on the court. He's not doing much to create space on the floor which is your job as a big when you set screens. Set solid screens and you open up the space to do something and get the ball in a dangerous area to score. Set a shitty screen and the ball handler has no options to make a good offensive play. Just watch your shot and give them a majority of the defensive rebounds uncontested or dive the lane and grab a few offensive boards to get some easy put-backs. These little things make guys like Steven Adams and Clint Capela look like really solid players when they have virtually no skill as a basketball player. There's plenty more KAT can do to impact the game outside of scoring and he's just not doing it. I've never understood the motor praise for KAT because to me it always seems like it's there when it benefits him, but not when it's needed to benefit the team. Meanwhile a guy like Wiggins is the opposite this series and looks like he's playing hard every possession. I hope the real Towns shows up and proves me wrong, but so far this has been a worrying series on the offensive end. Do the little things and good things will happen for everyone.

Great post. This was Thibs on KAT after the game:

"They're doing a good job on him," said Thibodeau, who also said he thought Minnesota tried to "force feed" Towns too much early in the game. "When you're doing the things they're doing, which is double-teaming him, he has to play with energy. He's got to run the floor. He's got to get it deep. He did that a couple of times, and it was good. You've got to beat them down the floor. You've got to be moving around, offensive rebound, kickout, repost. That's an energy game, and that's what we've got to do."

Energy in the little things seems to be the main thing going on here. Motor as defined on this board must be really about hubris more than actually trying hard.

thedoper wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:KAT has to do better at the little things and that will do wonders to get his game going and the rest of the team. His screens are virtually non-existent. He can't fight for position well. He's not following his perimeter shots. He's not anywhere near the paint on our jumpers half the time. He should be diving the lane on every shot we put up because he's the tallest guy on the court. He's not doing much to create space on the floor which is your job as a big when you set screens. Set solid screens and you open up the space to do something and get the ball in a dangerous area to score. Set a shitty screen and the ball handler has no options to make a good offensive play. Just watch your shot and give them a majority of the defensive rebounds uncontested or dive the lane and grab a few offensive boards to get some easy put-backs. These little things make guys like Steven Adams and Clint Capela look like really solid players when they have virtually no skill as a basketball player. There's plenty more KAT can do to impact the game outside of scoring and he's just not doing it. I've never understood the motor praise for KAT because to me it always seems like it's there when it benefits him, but not when it's needed to benefit the team. Meanwhile a guy like Wiggins is the opposite this series and looks like he's playing hard every possession. I hope the real Towns shows up and proves me wrong, but so far this has been a worrying series on the offensive end. Do the little things and good things will happen for everyone.

Great post. This was Thibs on KAT after the game:

"They're doing a good job on him," said Thibodeau, who also said he thought Minnesota tried to "force feed" Towns too much early in the game. "When you're doing the things they're doing, which is double-teaming him, he has to play with energy. He's got to run the floor. He's got to get it deep. He did that a couple of times, and it was good. You've got to beat them down the floor. You've got to be moving around, offensive rebound, kickout, repost. That's an energy game, and that's what we've got to do."

Energy in the little things seems to be the main thing going on here. Motor as defined on this board must be really about hubris more than actually trying hard.

One reason guys like Capela Adams or Deandre Jordon do what they do on screens is because they can't donanything else. Towns and To some extent Dieng are too eager to get to a spot becaus rthey can hit a shot from there. Capela isn't going to be taking even 15 foot jump shots...even if his coach and franchise philosophy would let him. So these guys just do all that stuff. Horford can do both which makes him really valuable.

I think Towns has been better the 2nd half of the season setting better screens but the bar was low like Jamal's crawford guarding someone low. People complain about Taj and Teague playing the 2 man game but part of that is Taj is much better as a screener. It's still problematic but that's definitely part of it.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

BloopOracle wrote:"But what scares me most is what I've harped on repeatedly this year. If KAT and Wiggins keep getting rewarded (and given excuses) while being heaped with praise without much criticism... WHY would they do what they need to do to improve? Where's the incentive? I want more than hollow "nice-speak" from KAT after this series. It's gonna be Year 4 for him. And Year 5 for Wiggins."

This is why I am still happy making the playoffs even against Houston, Towns and Wiggins are getting consistently killed by the national media. They may very well flame out in the end anyway but at least they are FINALLY getting criticism instead of Hakeem comparisons and max contracts for empty stats.

I think we've seen a sharp U-turn in how Wiggins is perceived. He's been ripped often. And not always accurately either.

But I listened to a prominent NBA podcast on the commute to work today that railed on the strategy without blaming Towns. The one guy kept harping on "only 9 shots"

Well, Towns didn't play much and he took several really bad shots last night. Basically "give up" plays. Sure, some of that is because of where he is on the court. And part of that is him giving up and just launching.


[Note: Now granted, I think the heat on Thibs isn't a bad thing either. Something has to change with him, too. But if there's already a sense of entitlement with Towns... being excused for arguably the worst two playoff games for an All Star in NBA history... won't end well. Who knows. I'm sure he's frustrated and will be determined to learn/improve from it. That's our hope. We'll see how it pans out.]

I am guessing you were listening to Kevin O'bomber and company. It was interesting that they ripped Wiggins, saying he sucks but it was all thibs fault on towns

Just thought it was interesting that they destroyed Wiggins when he is putting up 15.5/7/2 on 46% shooting, playing solid defense. I think nobody would complain about Wiggins if those were his numbers if the other 2 stars would show up.

KAT needs to show up. Like you said Towns might of had the 2 worst games in NBA history to start your playoff career for an all nba player

kekgeek1 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

BloopOracle wrote:"But what scares me most is what I've harped on repeatedly this year. If KAT and Wiggins keep getting rewarded (and given excuses) while being heaped with praise without much criticism... WHY would they do what they need to do to improve? Where's the incentive? I want more than hollow "nice-speak" from KAT after this series. It's gonna be Year 4 for him. And Year 5 for Wiggins."

This is why I am still happy making the playoffs even against Houston, Towns and Wiggins are getting consistently killed by the national media. They may very well flame out in the end anyway but at least they are FINALLY getting criticism instead of Hakeem comparisons and max contracts for empty stats.

I think we've seen a sharp U-turn in how Wiggins is perceived. He's been ripped often. And not always accurately either.

But I listened to a prominent NBA podcast on the commute to work today that railed on the strategy without blaming Towns. The one guy kept harping on "only 9 shots"

Well, Towns didn't play much and he took several really bad shots last night. Basically "give up" plays. Sure, some of that is because of where he is on the court. And part of that is him giving up and just launching.


[Note: Now granted, I think the heat on Thibs isn't a bad thing either. Something has to change with him, too. But if there's already a sense of entitlement with Towns... being excused for arguably the worst two playoff games for an All Star in NBA history... won't end well. Who knows. I'm sure he's frustrated and will be determined to learn/improve from it. That's our hope. We'll see how it pans out.]

I am guessing you were listening to Kevin O'bomber and company. It was interesting that they ripped Wiggins, saying he sucks but it was all thibs fault on towns

Just thought it was interesting that they destroyed Wiggins when he is putting up 15.5/7/2 on 46% shooting, playing solid defense. I think nobody would complain about Wiggins if those were his numbers if the other 2 stars would show up.

KAT needs to show up. Like you said Towns might of had the 2 worst games in NBA history to start your playoff career for an all nba player

It has to be hard to be dialed in on all the NBA teams. So I get where group-think and lazy takes come from.

There are a few that take their time to give a bit more in-depth take. For example, a Zach Lowe podcast is gonna be able to describe specifics of why he has that take at least... beyond "but it's what Charles and Shaq said"...

Maybe we need Brad Miller back to work with KAT? It worked with Pek:). We could have grabbed a win in Houston and made this series interesting with a lot more KAT and a lot less Crawford.