Camden wrote:What has happened that gives you even the slightest indication that Ben Simmons will play again for the Sixers? Or are you just ignoring all NBA reporting and a basing your take on absolutely nothing? He receives $16.1-million of his annual salary on October 1st, which means that Simmons can and likely will remain sitting out for as long as it takes until he's moved to another team.
Lastly, Simmons sitting out isn't even the worst thing him and Klutch Sports could do. Simmons could actually report to camp with a bad attitude and potentially cause further turmoil with the franchise similar to how Jimmy Butler behaved in Minnesota albeit not to that extent.
Correct, I'm basing it on absolutely nothing. That's what I do. I'm the most uninformed poster on the site.
I think you have some tough competition for that title, but you can't solve a problem without acknowledging it first so kudos for that after all these years... Answer my first question if you'd like to get back on track here.
Cool, after reading this exchange, I can only conclude that you are going to have to get a lot smarter if we're going to allow you to continue to participate in this forum...consider yourself on probation. But it sounds like you're not alone in being uninformed, so you're not the only one who has to up your game. I may be on probation also :anxious:.
Woj reported today that "Philadelphia 76ers All-Star Ben Simmons will not report for opening of training camp next week and intends to never play another game for the franchise. Simmons hasn't spoken to team since a late August meeting when he communicated this message to Sixers officials."
Sundog60 wrote:Woj reported today that "Philadelphia 76ers All-Star Ben Simmons will not report for opening of training camp next week and intends to never play another game for the franchise. Simmons hasn't spoken to team since a late August meeting when he communicated this message to Sixers officials."
No surprise. That's what we've been hearing for the past couple weeks at least. Woj is a highly reliable NBA reporter. I have no doubt that Simmons will follow through on his threat to sit out until he's traded. Of course it's possible that might chance, but I'd say it's highly unlikely. So Morey has very little leverage. He'll have to hope is a bidding war, but I don't see that happening. Otherwise, Morey's best hope might be Rosas bidding against himself - similar to when Rosas traded for Russell and again when Rosas signed Juancho last year.
Sundog60 wrote:Woj reported today that "Philadelphia 76ers All-Star Ben Simmons will not report for opening of training camp next week and intends to never play another game for the franchise. Simmons hasn't spoken to team since a late August meeting when he communicated this message to Sixers officials."
No surprise. That's what we've been hearing for the past couple weeks at least. Woj is a highly reliable NBA reporter. I have no doubt that Simmons will follow through on his threat to sit out until he's traded. Of course it's possible that might chance, but I'd say it's highly unlikely. So Morey has very little leverage. He'll have to hope is a bidding war, but I don't see that happening. Otherwise, Morey's best hope might be Rosas bidding against himself - similar to when Rosas traded for Russell and again when Rosas signed Juancho last year.
Rosas has also had times where he bowed out or held out for what he thought was the correct value too. Tyus Jones, Jordon McLaughlin last year making him take a 2-way, waiting to get Vanderbilt on a team friendly contract this year (option on year 3 is nice). I think even though I was upset at the time he did a good job of wrapping up a deal with Beasley when there likely was a legit bidder (Knicks paid up for Fournier this offseason) so I think there is some reason to believe Rosas is capable of not going overboard for a player. Meanwhile he somehow turned a mistake of Juancho (and Culver) into a pretty nice player in Beverly.
I'll say this about the Russell deal. There have been times over the past few months where I think...man maybe we could have made a move for a certain guard instead of Russell that would have been cheaper or cost less etc. Then I think about what it may have actually cost to get some of those players. Some of those guards still cost a first round pick in terms of value in a sign and trade this summer. The Wolves would still also have Wiggins and would they have had the right contract/s to send out for those players? Yes the Wolves pick this year is probably better than a pick after this season but you never know. So in a way if the Wolves are able to fulfill the Wiggins wing with a cheaper player (Edwards Beasley and McDaniels possibly even Bolmaro could all qualify and cost less combined than Wiggins) and have Russell be that lead guard type (Russell is actually cheaper than Wiggins) the team needed it's likely about a few draft spots difference (and what year the pick is would have been given up) between Russell and player X we could have acquired. I'm not saying the Russell trade was awesome but I think there are some different ways to look at it in hindsight that maybe me be more like...yeah alright it still makes sense. Would you rather pay Beasley and Russell or say Wiggins and Graham? This is a bit simplistic but yeah.
To me the trade at this point is about Russell as a player. Can he stay healthy and be a highly effective player? He doesn't have to be a star to be worth most of his contract. If so then I think it can still end up being a good trade for the Wolves. If he can't stay healthy and doesn't really play better than just a worthwhile starting guard who really struggles on defense then that's going to be tough. One of the reasons the trade looks better for GS is that Wiggins has been more efficient than he was before and does play defense. If Russell would have stayed healthy (I'm sure SOME games in the past 2 seasons he could have played if it really mattered) then the trade may have looked more even. I still think there is a path for Russell to be a reasonably special combination scorer/shooter and passer in this league. I'm not planning for it to happen but I think the skill level is there. The question I have is health and whether or not he can find that balance between scoring and creating for others which I still believe some factor comes down to coaching.
Oh and it helps that with Edwards on board we don't have to only hope Towns and Russell plus some other worthwhile players can carry an offense. Edwards might be THE guy.
This time is different. Weeks of Philadelphia's Simmons talks with various teams haven't brought the Sixers to the brink of a deal, largely because Morey is the one faced with trying to get commensurate value for his All-Star and still asking for so much in return in his determination to recoup a trade package that, as one source put it, keeps Philadelphia in title contention. History, however, says that Philadelphia's president of basketball operations shouldn't count on getting a glittering package back when a deal finally materializes -- his own history.
You'll recall that Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb and two future first-round picks were the price tag for Morey's Rockets when they acquired Harden from Oklahoma City in October 2012. Five years later, when Paul forced his way to Houston, Morey merely surrendered Lou Williams, Montrezl Harrell, Patrick Beverley and a future first-round pick.
76ers get:
D'Angelo Russell
2022 protected first-round pick (top-3 protected in 22, top-2 protected in 23 and unprotected in 2024)
2024 protected first-round pick (two years after the 2022 first is conveyed -- top-5 protected, top-3 protected and top-1 protected)
This is not the "grandfather" of an offer that Morey was holding out for, but it is the best available trade package that will come his way.
The trade with Minnesota for Simmons checks the boxes on what Philadelphia is hoping to accomplish. Philadelphia receives an All-Star-caliber point guard back in Russell and two potential lottery picks.
Despite missing 49 games the past two seasons with various injuries, Russell still averaged 20 points and six assists. He is under contract through the 2022-23 season. The 76ers would still remain one of the favorites in the Eastern Conference even with Simmons not on the roster.
This would be considered a swing-for-the-fence type of trade for Minnesota considering the package sent out, but keep in mind that Simmons is under contract for the next four seasons. If Simmons were a free agent, it would be unlikely that the Timberwolves would be on the top of his wish list of teams to sign with, but the grouping of Karl-Anthony Towns, Anthony Edwards and Simmons -- all former No. 1 overall picks -- would leave the Timberwolves with three franchise-level players.
-- Bobby Marks
I'll add that Stephen A. Smith said the Sixers should trade Simmons for Wiggins and two future 1st-round picks.
Morey got Harden for nothing more than Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb and two future 1st-round picks. I don't see why Morey should expect to get significantly more than the equivalent of that for Simmons under the circumstances. Yes, Harden was less accomplished after three seasons before being traded than Simmons is now after 4 seasons. Nevertheless, Harden was coming off a seasons in which he averaged nearly 17 points per game along with 4 rebounds and nearly 4 assists and a 39% three-point percentage. And he was widely regarded as having even more upside at the time. Moreover, OKC wasn't in a position where they HAD to trade Harden. He wasn't threatening to hold out and there was no acrimony between Harden and the team.
I'm not sure what would be roughly equivalent to the minimal package Morey gave up for Harden. I'd say DLO plus two lightly protected 1st round picks from the Wolves would be at least equivalent and probably better than that package. I'd say Beasley, Prince and two future unprotected or lightly-protected firsts seem equivalent. Bottom line is that I think we've all been overstating what it would or should take to get Simmons in our final/best offer ideas.
Camden wrote:What has happened that gives you even the slightest indication that Ben Simmons will play again for the Sixers? Or are you just ignoring all NBA reporting and a basing your take on absolutely nothing? He receives $16.1-million of his annual salary on October 1st, which means that Simmons can and likely will remain sitting out for as long as it takes until he's moved to another team.
Lastly, Simmons sitting out isn't even the worst thing him and Klutch Sports could do. Simmons could actually report to camp with a bad attitude and potentially cause further turmoil with the franchise similar to how Jimmy Butler behaved in Minnesota albeit not to that extent.
Correct, I'm basing it on absolutely nothing. That's what I do. I'm the most uninformed poster on the site.
I think you have some tough competition for that title, but you can't solve a problem without acknowledging it first so kudos for that after all these years... Answer my first question if you'd like to get back on track here.
Cool, after reading this exchange, I can only conclude that you are going to have to get a lot smarter if we're going to allow you to continue to participate in this forum...consider yourself on probation. But it sounds like you're not alone in being uninformed, so you're not the only one who has to up your game. I may be on probation also :anxious:.
It's very difficult to increase intelligence, so my work is cut out for me. If you have any brain exercises you could recommend, they would be greatly appreciated. Maybe the best thing would be to surround myself with a dumber crowd. Everything is relative, right?
