Minnesota Sports Forum

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:The coaching of our summer league squad has been terrific. We should also note the stellar play of K. Martin this last game with 23 pints on 5-9 shooting from behind the arc along with 5 rebounds in only 20 minutes. Note he also had only 1 turnover. He's been playing really well throughout the summer league season and has an impressive combination of speed, size, athleticism and skills, including a nice shooting touch from long distance. He should definitely get a roster spot or the Wolves other 2-way. At this point, I'd sign him to as our 15th guy on the roster and give the 2-way to someone else, perhaps McLaughlin.

Someone on the RealGm board mentioned this...should we be trying to lock up Naz Reid on a multi-year deal instead of keeping him on just a 2-way? The problem with that is we would have just 2 PGs on the roster. I think they would need to make a move or at the very least add a PG via 2-way like McLaughlin.

Now it's time for a game of...would you rather?

Pick one of these guys to the Wolves final 2-way spot.

Cam Reynolds
Kelon Martin

It's possible neither guy would accept a 2-way deal.

Good question. I'd take Martin hands down. He's younger with more upside and he has a more complete game - shooting AND rebounding.

Locking up Reid in a longer term deal makes sense. He has tremendous potential as I see it. Then we'd have a couple two-ways to offer - one to Martin and the other to McLaughlin. But since we already have Reid in a 2-way, I'd keep him there and sign Martin to a roster spot with the other 2-way going to McLaughlin or another young PG with potential.

FWIW Cam Reynolds is like 6 months older than Martin. He also played 19 games in the NBA and did some nice things while there including 41% from 3 as well as the bag-league). Martin shot like 32% from 3 in a German league. Recency bias? Personally I'd take either one but so think I'd lean Cam. I wonder what he would have looked like this year in Summer league.

I did some reading and digging around on McLaughlin. He has a rep of being a defensive guard and also a pure PG. On the Nets G-league team last year they were loaded with PGs so he often came off the bench and played with other PG types so he didn't have high assist numbers. Notice the Nets seem to be loaded with guards at both levels. He only shot 33% from 3 in the G-league last year but he averaged 40% in his final 3 years at USC. The year after he graduated from USC they dropped to a .500 squad. Meanwhile the Nets played at the highest pace in the G-league and had the best D-rating. He is coming from a good organization. He turned 23 in April. The Wolves aren't loaded with lead guards they have at least 1 opening with Wallace's spot up for grabs for sure. I'm not saying McLaughlin should get some sort of roster spot but the more I learn about him the more so do think he has a solid resume and it backs up what so have been seeing in summer league. It's KINDA like he is an obviously lower ceiling Tyus Jones (just knows how to play) but might actually be better as a shooter and scorer/creator. I watched a draft workout and he was driving and dunking also. He is a pretty good athlete not elite but it won't hold him back relatively speaking. He is a 6' in shoes guy with 6'4.5" wingspan. That's fine for a backup/3rd guard.

monsterpile wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

Camden wrote:Prigioni and Vanterpool >>> Saunders

Glad we have all three in some capacity, but yeah, it's very likely that the "worst" of the three is the actual head coach.

It's not what you know, it's...

Im once again not the person who wanted to bring Saunders back, but Saunders had very good success in SL as well when he was the head coach. The Wolves took 2nd in his 1st year as SL head coach.

Cam you are showing your bias against Saunders saying that Prigoni is a better coach than Saunders. He has coached an 0-3 team in Europe before stepping down and then coached 1 season for the Nets. Sure he was a good very highly regarded professional player but he doesn't have a better coaching resume than Ryan. Vanterpool? Sure I won't argue that one.

Prigioni has twice the basketball resume as Saunders, which is exactly my point. He actually has legitimate experience playing professionally, which is more than Saunders can say. And let's not act like Saunders has this great coaching resume either. What has he done? I've heard the talk about how he somehow helped Beal and Wall in Washington, but really, how much credit do you give an assistant coach vs how much credit you give the actual player pertaining to his own individual improvement.

Again, I like Saunders as a person and as an assistant, but it will continue to rub me the wrong way with how he got this head coaching job -- and I think it's pretty clear that he's not even the best coach on the staff -- though, he might be the most liked and most personable with the players.

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:The coaching of our summer league squad has been terrific. We should also note the stellar play of K. Martin this last game with 23 pints on 5-9 shooting from behind the arc along with 5 rebounds in only 20 minutes. Note he also had only 1 turnover. He's been playing really well throughout the summer league season and has an impressive combination of speed, size, athleticism and skills, including a nice shooting touch from long distance. He should definitely get a roster spot or the Wolves other 2-way. At this point, I'd sign him to as our 15th guy on the roster and give the 2-way to someone else, perhaps McLaughlin.

Someone on the RealGm board mentioned this...should we be trying to lock up Naz Reid on a multi-year deal instead of keeping him on just a 2-way? The problem with that is we would have just 2 PGs on the roster. I think they would need to make a move or at the very least add a PG via 2-way like McLaughlin.

Now it's time for a game of...would you rather?

Pick one of these guys to the Wolves final 2-way spot.

Cam Reynolds
Kelon Martin

It's possible neither guy would accept a 2-way deal.

That's my sense as well. Martin played professionally overseas last year and is a proven college scorer. I get the sense he and his agent are not going to be interested in a 2-way, so I think if we bring him on board it will be in the 15th roster spot. I'd probably pick Martin over Reynolds only because I think Martin can play small-ball 4 given his bulk and rebounding. In fact, I think he'd struggle to guard wings....really struggles laterally.

As for Reid, I'm not impressed with his defense or hustle, although he has some really intriguing skills. He is actually the perfect kind of guy to put on a 2-way: Young, a little out of shape, needs to prove he's committed to improving his body.

monsterpile wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Kinda frustrating that we are coming away impressed with guys like McLaughlin, Martin, and Reid while Okogie is part train wreck/part whirling dervish, and KBD has been solid, but not great.

The MVP might just be our coach!

That has been my take away. Our coaching staff got us to play as a team, and play for each other and not the individual. That is huge in my opinion, with majority guys just trying to make a roster some way or another they played as one and the sum of their parts was better than the overall talent on the roster.

I think the fact that the team has played as a team means 2nd year guys not putting up massive stats is fine. Okogie's shooting numbers are horrific though.

I understand they aren't going to put up volume stats, but yeah, the poor shooting and inefficiency relative to the competition is pretty disappointing. Also, the "eye test" on Okogie suggests zero improvement offensively from last year. Not good. KBD at least has shown signs of a better outside shot (although not last night).

Camden0916 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

Camden wrote:Prigioni and Vanterpool >>> Saunders

Glad we have all three in some capacity, but yeah, it's very likely that the "worst" of the three is the actual head coach.

It's not what you know, it's...

Im once again not the person who wanted to bring Saunders back, but Saunders had very good success in SL as well when he was the head coach. The Wolves took 2nd in his 1st year as SL head coach.

Cam you are showing your bias against Saunders saying that Prigoni is a better coach than Saunders. He has coached an 0-3 team in Europe before stepping down and then coached 1 season for the Nets. Sure he was a good very highly regarded professional player but he doesn't have a better coaching resume than Ryan. Vanterpool? Sure I won't argue that one.

Prigioni has twice the basketball resume as Saunders, which is exactly my point. He actually has legitimate experience playing professionally, which is more than Saunders can say. And let's not act like Saunders has this great coaching resume either. What has he done? I've heard the talk about how he somehow helped Beal and Wall in Washington, but really, how much credit do you give an assistant coach vs how much credit you give the actual player pertaining to his own individual improvement.

Again, I like Saunders as a person and as an assistant, but it will continue to rub me the wrong way with how he got this head coaching job -- and I think it's pretty clear that he's not even the best coach on the staff -- though, he might be the most liked and most personable with the players.

Personally I'm not sure playing NBA basketball adds that much to a resume. A lot of the top NBA coaches in the league played that level of basketball a bunch of them never did. I'm not saying that it isn't worthwhile but I don't see how it makes Pablo have a better resume than a guy that's been coaching basketball for over 10 years. It's cool if you disagree though.

Regardless we agree that Ryan is likable and easy to root for. He has an upcoming appearance on Zach Lowe's podcast and he was on Chris Mannix's podcast which was a fun listen. In that one he shared that years ago someone told him to not worry about the fact that he got into the NBA because his dad gave him a job. They said everyone that gets into the NBA gets a break it's what you do with it that counts. He had some other interesting stories and tidbits.

Q12543 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Kinda frustrating that we are coming away impressed with guys like McLaughlin, Martin, and Reid while Okogie is part train wreck/part whirling dervish, and KBD has been solid, but not great.

The MVP might just be our coach!

That has been my take away. Our coaching staff got us to play as a team, and play for each other and not the individual. That is huge in my opinion, with majority guys just trying to make a roster some way or another they played as one and the sum of their parts was better than the overall talent on the roster.

I think the fact that the team has played as a team means 2nd year guys not putting up massive stats is fine. Okogie's shooting numbers are horrific though.

I understand they aren't going to put up volume stats, but yeah, the poor shooting and inefficiency relative to the competition is pretty disappointing. Also, the "eye test" on Okogie suggests zero improvement offensively from last year. Not good. KBD at least has shown signs of a better outside shot (although not last night).

KBD has had a nice summer league imo. When he has looked to score he has gotten what he wants most of the time and he hasn't really forced the issue. Half his shots have been 3's and he has hit 37% of them. It's all a small sample and he has missed some bunnies the the rim the past couple games. He plays a smooth smart game that often doesn't mean big impact numbers or whatever especially in SL where flashy quick dudes usually rule the day. It will be interesting to see the Wolves match up against Jarrett Allen in this next game against the Nets (assuming he plays).

My thoughts after the game:

The Rosa interview made me feel better about having Saunders as our head coach. I think he was a mistake to keep but he has the rapport with all the players, whereas in the interview Rosa said that Saunders is letting his top two assistants run the offense and defense. This means Saunders is the figurehead relationship guy and the other two actually run what happens on the floor.

Okogie
His shot is not falling, I am guessing because he cant slow down that part of his game. He does seem to be seeing things better - so the game is slowing for him. His passing, especially the no-look with guys he has little playing time with. If his shot doesn't start falling we should get worried about him.

Naz
He is someone to watch - curious how Rosa handles him. It is clear he would not get much playing time right now but he would get top-level coaching, just not focused on him. If he went to the g-league he would be a focal point in both coachings and in playing time.

McLaughlin
I think he is our 3rd string PG. He shot well from 3 in college and his advanced numbers are pretty good from the g-league.

Martin
He should be a keeper for sure and be the 1-2 combo stars in the g-league. He got clearly better (statistically) in college so he doesnt have a flat development arc like a lot of these guys.

monsterpile wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

Camden wrote:Prigioni and Vanterpool >>> Saunders

Glad we have all three in some capacity, but yeah, it's very likely that the "worst" of the three is the actual head coach.

It's not what you know, it's...

Im once again not the person who wanted to bring Saunders back, but Saunders had very good success in SL as well when he was the head coach. The Wolves took 2nd in his 1st year as SL head coach.

Cam you are showing your bias against Saunders saying that Prigoni is a better coach than Saunders. He has coached an 0-3 team in Europe before stepping down and then coached 1 season for the Nets. Sure he was a good very highly regarded professional player but he doesn't have a better coaching resume than Ryan. Vanterpool? Sure I won't argue that one.

Prigioni has twice the basketball resume as Saunders, which is exactly my point. He actually has legitimate experience playing professionally, which is more than Saunders can say. And let's not act like Saunders has this great coaching resume either. What has he done? I've heard the talk about how he somehow helped Beal and Wall in Washington, but really, how much credit do you give an assistant coach vs how much credit you give the actual player pertaining to his own individual improvement.

Again, I like Saunders as a person and as an assistant, but it will continue to rub me the wrong way with how he got this head coaching job -- and I think it's pretty clear that he's not even the best coach on the staff -- though, he might be the most liked and most personable with the players.

Personally I'm not sure playing NBA basketball adds that much to a resume. A lot of the top NBA coaches in the league played that level of basketball a bunch of them never did. I'm not saying that it isn't worthwhile but I don't see how it makes Pablo have a better resume than a guy that's been coaching basketball for over 10 years. It's cool if you disagree though.

Regardless we agree that Ryan is likable and easy to root for. He has an upcoming appearance on Zach Lowe's podcast and he was on Chris Mannix's podcast which was a fun listen. In that one he shared that years ago someone told him to not worry about the fact that he got into the NBA because his dad gave him a job. They said everyone that gets into the NBA gets a break it's what you do with it that counts. He had some other interesting stories and tidbits.

Regardless of whether Ryan is the best guy, we're all better off that we're not starting another year with Thibs. Count your blessings.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

Camden wrote:Prigioni and Vanterpool >>> Saunders

Glad we have all three in some capacity, but yeah, it's very likely that the "worst" of the three is the actual head coach.

It's not what you know, it's...

Im once again not the person who wanted to bring Saunders back, but Saunders had very good success in SL as well when he was the head coach. The Wolves took 2nd in his 1st year as SL head coach.

Cam you are showing your bias against Saunders saying that Prigoni is a better coach than Saunders. He has coached an 0-3 team in Europe before stepping down and then coached 1 season for the Nets. Sure he was a good very highly regarded professional player but he doesn't have a better coaching resume than Ryan. Vanterpool? Sure I won't argue that one.

Prigioni has twice the basketball resume as Saunders, which is exactly my point. He actually has legitimate experience playing professionally, which is more than Saunders can say. And let's not act like Saunders has this great coaching resume either. What has he done? I've heard the talk about how he somehow helped Beal and Wall in Washington, but really, how much credit do you give an assistant coach vs how much credit you give the actual player pertaining to his own individual improvement.

Again, I like Saunders as a person and as an assistant, but it will continue to rub me the wrong way with how he got this head coaching job -- and I think it's pretty clear that he's not even the best coach on the staff -- though, he might be the most liked and most personable with the players.

Personally I'm not sure playing NBA basketball adds that much to a resume. A lot of the top NBA coaches in the league played that level of basketball a bunch of them never did. I'm not saying that it isn't worthwhile but I don't see how it makes Pablo have a better resume than a guy that's been coaching basketball for over 10 years. It's cool if you disagree though.

Regardless we agree that Ryan is likable and easy to root for. He has an upcoming appearance on Zach Lowe's podcast and he was on Chris Mannix's podcast which was a fun listen. In that one he shared that years ago someone told him to not worry about the fact that he got into the NBA because his dad gave him a job. They said everyone that gets into the NBA gets a break it's what you do with it that counts. He had some other interesting stories and tidbits.

Regardless of whether Ryan is the best guy, we're all better off that we're not starting another year with Thibs. Count your blessings.

Yep 2nd winningest coach in wolves history and we got worse in every statistical category once Ryan took over. So excited.

(I understand why thibs had to go)

kekgeek1 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

Camden wrote:Prigioni and Vanterpool >>> Saunders

Glad we have all three in some capacity, but yeah, it's very likely that the "worst" of the three is the actual head coach.

It's not what you know, it's...

Im once again not the person who wanted to bring Saunders back, but Saunders had very good success in SL as well when he was the head coach. The Wolves took 2nd in his 1st year as SL head coach.

Cam you are showing your bias against Saunders saying that Prigoni is a better coach than Saunders. He has coached an 0-3 team in Europe before stepping down and then coached 1 season for the Nets. Sure he was a good very highly regarded professional player but he doesn't have a better coaching resume than Ryan. Vanterpool? Sure I won't argue that one.

Prigioni has twice the basketball resume as Saunders, which is exactly my point. He actually has legitimate experience playing professionally, which is more than Saunders can say. And let's not act like Saunders has this great coaching resume either. What has he done? I've heard the talk about how he somehow helped Beal and Wall in Washington, but really, how much credit do you give an assistant coach vs how much credit you give the actual player pertaining to his own individual improvement.

Again, I like Saunders as a person and as an assistant, but it will continue to rub me the wrong way with how he got this head coaching job -- and I think it's pretty clear that he's not even the best coach on the staff -- though, he might be the most liked and most personable with the players.

Personally I'm not sure playing NBA basketball adds that much to a resume. A lot of the top NBA coaches in the league played that level of basketball a bunch of them never did. I'm not saying that it isn't worthwhile but I don't see how it makes Pablo have a better resume than a guy that's been coaching basketball for over 10 years. It's cool if you disagree though.

Regardless we agree that Ryan is likable and easy to root for. He has an upcoming appearance on Zach Lowe's podcast and he was on Chris Mannix's podcast which was a fun listen. In that one he shared that years ago someone told him to not worry about the fact that he got into the NBA because his dad gave him a job. They said everyone that gets into the NBA gets a break it's what you do with it that counts. He had some other interesting stories and tidbits.

Regardless of whether Ryan is the best guy, we're all better off that we're not starting another year with Thibs. Count your blessings.

Yep 2nd winningest coach in wolves history and we got worse in every statistical category once Ryan took over. So excited.

(I understand why thibs had to go)

Then STFU