Minnesota Sports Forum

Yeah, just to echo some others here, I'm not sure why the reported/rumored Miami Heat trade offers are being looked at as the benchmark in determining how waiting helped or hurt the value the Wolves got back in return for Jimmy Butler. That is wildly biased, especially when you consider TWO franchises reportedly increased their offers over time -- Houston and Philadelphia.

I'm also unsure why Woj's basketball opinion means anything either. He's a pretty reliable reporter in terms of scoops and breaking news -- likely because of all the relationships he has with player agents -- but I have zero reason to value his basketball opinion over my own when I likely watch and understand more of the game/league than he does.

khans2k5 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

sjm34 wrote:Have to say it is a wonderful story, but to say the deals got worse is without merit. We know Miami offered some version of JRich, a bad contract (waiters?) and a protected first round pick. That isn't on par with what we got. If Adebayo was a part of it I would agree with him, but we have no proof of that.

Woj making it sound like a great financial decision makes no sense. Covington and 16-20 mil for Saric is still less than what Butler is looking for on a max deal.

The wolves could still look to move Saric, and I am pretty sure they could get a middle first for him.

According to Woj, Miami refused to offer Richardson again after initially offering him. That was an example he gave of the deals getting worst. Do you believe Woj's first report that Richardson was offered with Waiters, but choose to deny his recent report that Miami refused to include him subsequently? That's pretty selective, but you can choose what and what not to believe. The bottom line is that Woj very plugged in and has proven to be a highly reliable NBA reporter. You can choose not to believe him, but I think he's earned the trust that I'm putting in his report.

And a month ago Covington AND Saric were not on the table together and we got both hence the value went up over time in that scenario. Sounds pretty selective to me to only talk about the Miami deal as a way to prove how his value fluctuated when the deal we made literally was an example of his value going up over time.

Cmon Kahns, you're better then that. To even consider Covington and Saric as a serious offer alone is insanity.

The moral of the story and one I agree with is we had a guy in Tibs making this deal with his best interest in mind. Very short sighted, thinking this year only. Not 2-3 years from now, as well as this year. I have no problem if people think this is a decent deal and like it over the Miami. I happen to think the Miami deal was much better but that's debatable.

Duke13 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

sjm34 wrote:Have to say it is a wonderful story, but to say the deals got worse is without merit. We know Miami offered some version of JRich, a bad contract (waiters?) and a protected first round pick. That isn't on par with what we got. If Adebayo was a part of it I would agree with him, but we have no proof of that.

Woj making it sound like a great financial decision makes no sense. Covington and 16-20 mil for Saric is still less than what Butler is looking for on a max deal.

The wolves could still look to move Saric, and I am pretty sure they could get a middle first for him.

According to Woj, Miami refused to offer Richardson again after initially offering him. That was an example he gave of the deals getting worst. Do you believe Woj's first report that Richardson was offered with Waiters, but choose to deny his recent report that Miami refused to include him subsequently? That's pretty selective, but you can choose what and what not to believe. The bottom line is that Woj very plugged in and has proven to be a highly reliable NBA reporter. You can choose not to believe him, but I think he's earned the trust that I'm putting in his report.

And a month ago Covington AND Saric were not on the table together and we got both hence the value went up over time in that scenario. Sounds pretty selective to me to only talk about the Miami deal as a way to prove how his value fluctuated when the deal we made literally was an example of his value going up over time.

Cmon Kahns, you're better then that. To even consider Covington and Saric as a serious offer alone is insanity.

The moral of the story and one I agree with is we had a guy in Tibs making this deal with his best interest in mind. Very short sighted, thinking this year only. Not 2-3 years from now, as well as this year. I have no problem if people think this is a decent deal and like it over the Miami. I happen to think the Miami deal was much better but that's debatable.

It was an offer though. That's the point. It took them a month of basketball to put both on the table after Fultz faltered at being the 3rd wheel. Their offer went up in value due to us waiting for their situation to change. That's just a fact. And I really just don't buy this deal being short sighted. Covington has 5-6 years of good basketball in him and Saric has a decade and we control his free agency rights. This deal helps now and moving forward for several seasons. We now have a quality under 24 prospect at 4 out of 5 starting positions. How is that not good for the long haul? You'd think Covington was on his last legs and Saric was actually Dragon Bender with the way this board is talking about this trade when in reality they both have a lot of quality basketball in front of them.

khans2k5 wrote:

Duke13 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

sjm34 wrote:Have to say it is a wonderful story, but to say the deals got worse is without merit. We know Miami offered some version of JRich, a bad contract (waiters?) and a protected first round pick. That isn't on par with what we got. If Adebayo was a part of it I would agree with him, but we have no proof of that.

Woj making it sound like a great financial decision makes no sense. Covington and 16-20 mil for Saric is still less than what Butler is looking for on a max deal.

The wolves could still look to move Saric, and I am pretty sure they could get a middle first for him.

According to Woj, Miami refused to offer Richardson again after initially offering him. That was an example he gave of the deals getting worst. Do you believe Woj's first report that Richardson was offered with Waiters, but choose to deny his recent report that Miami refused to include him subsequently? That's pretty selective, but you can choose what and what not to believe. The bottom line is that Woj very plugged in and has proven to be a highly reliable NBA reporter. You can choose not to believe him, but I think he's earned the trust that I'm putting in his report.

And a month ago Covington AND Saric were not on the table together and we got both hence the value went up over time in that scenario. Sounds pretty selective to me to only talk about the Miami deal as a way to prove how his value fluctuated when the deal we made literally was an example of his value going up over time.

Cmon Kahns, you're better then that. To even consider Covington and Saric as a serious offer alone is insanity.

The moral of the story and one I agree with is we had a guy in Tibs making this deal with his best interest in mind. Very short sighted, thinking this year only. Not 2-3 years from now, as well as this year. I have no problem if people think this is a decent deal and like it over the Miami. I happen to think the Miami deal was much better but that's debatable.

It was an offer though. That's the point. It took them a month of basketball to put both on the table after Fultz faltered at being the 3rd wheel. Their offer went up in value due to us waiting for their situation to change. That's just a fact. And I really just don't buy this deal being short sighted. Covington has 5-6 years of good basketball in him and Saric has a decade and we control his free agency rights. This deal helps now and moving forward for several seasons. We now have a quality under 24 prospect at 4 out of 5 starting positions. How is that not good for the long haul? You'd think Covington was on his last legs and Saric was actually Dragon Bender with the way this board is talking about this trade when in reality they both have a lot of quality basketball in front of them.

I think the Wolves are the only team that gets clowned for not making moves that require blowing it up.

I don't get why people are unhappy about adding Covington when he provides all the stuff Wiggins sucks at. Saric could be a really good player, though like Markannen I question the fit with Towns (put it this way: if the fits don't pan out, we can blame our "cornerstone players")

Like cam has said. Saric is the key in this trade. How you view him will likely sway your opinion on the trade. I veiw him as a better prospect than richardson so Im okay with the sixers trade. He is also a starting caliber 4 at only 24 years old! So I will definitely group him with Towns/Wiggins/Okogie as the our young core to build around. Some here have talk about hime like he is 28 instead of 24.

Like everyone here, i hope we could have gotten a first round pick in our favor. Im sure that would change a lot of people's feelings towards the trade. I was hoping we could have added a trade swap where we give up our 2021 2nd round pick for 1 of the sixers 1st round picks(theirs or miami's). Something as a sweetener thrown in but we are talking about thibs/layde/taylor trio here so dont expect much from them.

Overall, a good trade given the circumstances. We got two legit rotation guys that could step in and be our best starting option at the 3 and 4 right now. I love how saric will fit in with both towns and wiggins on offense. Like most, defense is the question mark but its not as bad as some are making it out to be. I will start both now. Play taj as our backup center with tolliver until we can find a righ trade for him. Dieng is the odd man out in our big rotation.

I like sarics passing, his handle, and his ability to move off the ball. Defenders wont be able to pack the paint against us, they will have to guard him (unlike taj).

However, Im just not sure we have the pg nor the offensive schemes to really maximize their potential. But that could be said for anyone we bring in.

Our pgs fit what thibs wants to run, everyone else seems to be miscast.

The stuff about Woj... From everything I've heard about the guy... he's extremely plugged in and his reports should be taken as truth at the time they were written. Obviously, things change.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:The stuff about Woj... From everything I've heard about the guy... he's extremely plugged in and his reports should be taken as truth at the time they were written. Obviously, things change.

But during this whole butler thing, woj was mostly used as jimmys mouthpiece.

monsterpile wrote:I don't really care that much that we missed out on Josh Richardson. The deal we ended up with is something I would have been fairly happy with weeks ago so...whatever. Thibs job now is more about his coaching. If he doesn't get the job done there he will he fired and will deserve it. Personally I'm intrigued to see how it plays out on the court.

For some reason on this board Josh Richardson is a supreme talent and RoCo is a scrub in comparison.

The reality is that they are very similar - one just actually has accolades to support the case..

Duke13 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

sjm34 wrote:Have to say it is a wonderful story, but to say the deals got worse is without merit. We know Miami offered some version of JRich, a bad contract (waiters?) and a protected first round pick. That isn't on par with what we got. If Adebayo was a part of it I would agree with him, but we have no proof of that.

Woj making it sound like a great financial decision makes no sense. Covington and 16-20 mil for Saric is still less than what Butler is looking for on a max deal.

The wolves could still look to move Saric, and I am pretty sure they could get a middle first for him.

According to Woj, Miami refused to offer Richardson again after initially offering him. That was an example he gave of the deals getting worst. Do you believe Woj's first report that Richardson was offered with Waiters, but choose to deny his recent report that Miami refused to include him subsequently? That's pretty selective, but you can choose what and what not to believe. The bottom line is that Woj very plugged in and has proven to be a highly reliable NBA reporter. You can choose not to believe him, but I think he's earned the trust that I'm putting in his report.

And a month ago Covington AND Saric were not on the table together and we got both hence the value went up over time in that scenario. Sounds pretty selective to me to only talk about the Miami deal as a way to prove how his value fluctuated when the deal we made literally was an example of his value going up over time.

Cmon Kahns, you're better then that. To even consider Covington and Saric as a serious offer alone is insanity.

The moral of the story and one I agree with is we had a guy in Tibs making this deal with his best interest in mind. Very short sighted, thinking this year only. Not 2-3 years from now, as well as this year. I have no problem if people think this is a decent deal and like it over the Miami. I happen to think the Miami deal was much better but that's debatable.

How is this move short sighted?!?!?

We traded a going on 30 player for a locked in wing, a forward prospect that we control, and a 2nd rounder..

The initial butler trade was short sighted, this is not.