Minnesota Sports Forum

monsterpile wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:To Lip's credit, Collins looks like a good player...on the offensive side at least. But there are a lot of comments about his very poor defense and why it is difficult to play him against the other team's starters...he is playing behind 2 SFs (Prince and Babbitt), because he just can't stop anyone. It will be interesting to see if Collins can develop into even an average NBA defender, because if he can, his rebounding and scoring could make him a very good NBA player.

The East went 4-0 on the road last night and is now 3 games better than the West! This is a very interesting trend that none of us predicted...it really is beginning to look like the young stars and coaches in the East could be turning the tide against the aging stars and established coaches in the West. Will be fun to monitor as the season progresses.

LST I am curious where you have seen other comments about Collins defense thus far this year?

I read several concerns about his defense coming into the draft and some since, but most recently, either Jon K or Britt Robson (can't remember which) tweeted that their sources said Atlanta was concerned about playing Collins because he was so inept on defense. I've been wondering why the Hawks are starting an undersized SF (either Babbitt or Prince) at PF ahead of Collins, and the tweet helped me understand. He's obviously young though, so he is likely to improve defensively.

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:To Lip's credit, Collins looks like a good player...on the offensive side at least. But there are a lot of comments about his very poor defense and why it is difficult to play him against the other team's starters...he is playing behind 2 SFs (Prince and Babbitt), because he just can't stop anyone. It will be interesting to see if Collins can develop into even an average NBA defender, because if he can, his rebounding and scoring could make him a very good NBA player.

The East went 4-0 on the road last night and is now 3 games better than the West! This is a very interesting trend that none of us predicted...it really is beginning to look like the young stars and coaches in the East could be turning the tide against the aging stars and established coaches in the West. Will be fun to monitor as the season progresses.

LST I am curious where you have seen other comments about Collins defense thus far this year?

I read several concerns about his defense coming into the draft and some since, but most recently, either Jon K or Britt Robson (can't remember which) tweeted that their sources said Atlanta was concerned about playing Collins because he was so inept on defense. I've been wondering why the Hawks are starting an undersized SF (either Babbitt or Prince) at PF ahead of Collins, and the tweet helped me understand. He's obviously young though, so he is likely to improve defensively.

Thanks for the reply and info LST.

I wouldn't hold them starting Prince or Babbit ahead of Collins against him too much. Prince is a nice young player and Babbit is a flawed vet but provides spacing and that's important in today's game. I'll say this about Collins the Hawks are probably thrilled that what he did in college seems to have translated. Where he was picked that's pretty good to get an athletic big that can rebound and get easy baskets. That's something. Some guys don't show anything and like you said he is young as he turned 20 a few weeks ago.

longstrangetrip wrote:To Lip's credit, Collins looks like a good player...on the offensive side at least. But there are a lot of comments about his very poor defense and why it is difficult to play him against the other team's starters...he is playing behind 2 SFs (Prince and Babbitt), because he just can't stop anyone. It will be interesting to see if Collins can develop into even an average NBA defender, because if he can, his rebounding and scoring could make him a very good NBA player.

The East went 4-0 on the road last night and is now 3 games better than the West! This is a very interesting trend that none of us predicted...it really is beginning to look like the young stars and coaches in the East could be turning the tide against the aging stars and established coaches in the West. Will be fun to monitor as the season progresses.

LST -- Collins is averaging nearly 21 minutes per game compared to Babbit's 19 minutes. So he's seeing slightly more floor time than Babbit. Of course, he's getting significantly less playing time than Prince, but that's no surprise since Prince is the Hawks best player. As for coming off the bench versus starting, I wouldn't expect a 19-year old rookie drafted at #16 as an underclassman to be starting ahead of far more experienced vets. But I could see Collins starting ahead of Babbit by the end of the season.

I recall the criticism of Collins's defense in draft reviews last Spring. As you noted, he was criticized for his defensive shortcomings and I saw plenty of video supporting that criticism. But the criticism related to his defensive IQ, not his motor. In fact, received consistent praise for his high octane motor coming out of college. Coming out of college pretty clueless on the defensive end is more the rule than the exception these days. Then consider the fact that Collins only had two years of college and very little playing time his freshman year. Also consider that he's younger than most of the freshman in last June's draft. So I suspect his defense will eventually come around to the point where he's at least decent.

The key point is that the scoring, rebounding and shot-blocking he showed as a college sophomore are transferring with regularity to the NBA so far. Even if he doesn't develop much defensively, the other things he brings to the court will continue to make him valuable in the NBA. A quicker, more agile Al Jefferson comes to mind when I watch Collins. Given all those things, I thought and continue to think Collins was a great value pick at #15. Patton's pedestrian stats in college, especially considering the competition he played, suggest to me that Collins would have been a much better pick. But as a Wolves fan, I definitely hope I turn out to be wrong.

Talking about young bigs the guy nobody talks about is Clint Capella. He is putting up basically 13-11 double double this year and almost 2 blocks in less than 25 mpg while also hitting his FTs. He is still only 23.

monsterpile wrote:Talking about young bigs the guy nobody talks about is Clint Capella. He is putting up basically 13-11 double double this year and almost 2 blocks in less than 25 mpg while also hitting his FTs. He is still only 23.

Capela and Ariza are two big reasons the Rockets defense is solid. And that's all they need given their prodigious offensive output.

A mixed bag tonight.

First of all, the Wolves did what that had to do, beating the division-rival Jazz. The Grizzlies lost the Bucks.

Looks like the Grizzlies' lack of talent is starting to catch up with them. Unfortunately, the Pelicans squeaked by with a one-point win over the Hawks. So far, the Nuggets are losing to the Blazers, which would be the best result for the Wolves given the Nuggets' record and the fact that the Nuggets appear to be a bigger threat than the Blazers.

Note that the Lakers beat the Suns in Phoenix tonight. Makes the Wolves loss to the Suns Saturday night all the more shameful.

The Bucks-Memphis box score is interesting. Tyrke Evans had 27 highly efficient points and 6 rebounds, yet his plus-minus was -9. A good example of how misleading that plus-minus stat can be. Similarly, the Greek Freak had 27 high efficient points to go with 9 rebounds, 7 assists, 2 steals and 2 blocks, yet he was only a +9.

By the way, Evans was a really nice value acquisition by the Grizzlies.

lipoli390 wrote:A mixed bag tonight.

First of all, the Wolves did what that had to do, beating the division-rival Jazz. The Grizzlies lost the Bucks.

Looks like the Grizzlies' lack of talent is starting to catch up with them. Unfortunately, the Pelicans squeaked by with a one-point win over the Hawks. So far, the Nuggets are losing to the Blazers, which would be the best result for the Wolves given the Nuggets' record and the fact that the Nuggets appear to be a bigger threat than the Blazers.

Note that the Lakers beat the Suns in Phoenix tonight. Makes the Wolves loss to the Suns Saturday night all the more shameful.

If the 76ers can hold on to beat the clippers (two teams going in opposite directions) it will be yet another night where the East beats the West...all good for our playoff chances.

lipoli390 wrote:A mixed bag tonight.

First of all, the Wolves did what that had to do, beating the division-rival Jazz. The Grizzlies lost the Bucks.

Looks like the Grizzlies' lack of talent is starting to catch up with them. Unfortunately, the Pelicans squeaked by with a one-point win over the Hawks. So far, the Nuggets are losing to the Blazers, which would be the best result for the Wolves given the Nuggets' record and the fact that the Nuggets appear to be a bigger threat than the Blazers.

Note that the Lakers beat the Suns in Phoenix tonight. Makes the Wolves loss to the Suns Saturday night all the more shameful.

Still a terrible loss but games like those happen in the NBA. Feels like a huge missed opportunity. I mean the 73 warriors lost to the wolves and lakers that season.

But still that lose hurt

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:A mixed bag tonight.

First of all, the Wolves did what that had to do, beating the division-rival Jazz. The Grizzlies lost the Bucks.

Looks like the Grizzlies' lack of talent is starting to catch up with them. Unfortunately, the Pelicans squeaked by with a one-point win over the Hawks. So far, the Nuggets are losing to the Blazers, which would be the best result for the Wolves given the Nuggets' record and the fact that the Nuggets appear to be a bigger threat than the Blazers.

Note that the Lakers beat the Suns in Phoenix tonight. Makes the Wolves loss to the Suns Saturday night all the more shameful.

Still a terrible loss but games like those happen in the NBA. Feels like a huge missed opportunity. I mean the 73 warriors lost to the wolves and lakers that season.

But still that lose hurt

Beating Utah tonight was essential after that loss. Beating the Spurs at home Wednesday night is another game the Wolves should win if they're going to be a top 5 contender in the West.