Minnesota Sports Forum

I think this year trades would be centered on Reid and our Rookies I guess. Not sure in the value there. Some team would really want to do us a favor.

Good thread and analysis, Carlos.

There are two separate questions raised by your thread. One is what each of us thinks the Wolves should do with our assets yet this season. The other question is what we think the Wolves are likely to do or not do with those assets. I'll offer my thoughts on each question without speculating on what I or the Wolves front office might do after the season.

WHAT WOULD I DO?

1. I'd start by exercising caution and not rush into any deal in quest of a quick fix. As everyone knows, I had doubts about this mix of players resulting from the Gobert trade ever since the deal was made. Nevertheless, I'd wait at least until after Christmas before seriously considering potentially significant trades. I think it's still worth waiting a bit longer to see if these pieces can finally add up at least to the sum of their parts in spite of all the evidence to the contrary. The fact that KAT will be out a month makes it even more imperative to wait if only to see how this team performs without what I consider to be the poor fit between Gobert and KAT.

2. If we're still limping along at or below .500 after Christmas, then I'd start to seriously consider the possibility of making a major deal or two before the trade deadline this season.

3. Who I would not trade: Assessing our assets as you've presented them, I would start by resolving NOT to include Edwards, McDaniels, JMac or Nowell in any deal. I would also refrain from including Garza, Minott or Moore in any deal. And of course, League rules preclude trading KAT until after the season. Why not Edwards or McDaniels? Because they remain our best hope for being relevant in long run and possibly even this season. They are both oozing with talent. McDaniels has actually shown significant development over last season and while Edwards hasn't taken the big step forward we were hoping for, he's actually been our best player and just turned 21 years old. It would be really dumb to including him in any deal at this point. Why not JMac or Nowell? I see both as small undervalued gems who likely still have remaining upside. You need players like who contribute positively on very team-friendly contracts and who could yet break out and become significant better. I think they bring more value to this team than any value they might bring in return. Why not Garza, Minott or Moore? Because we've already traded away 4 of our next 7 first-round picks and have traded away most of our second round picks as well. That means we need to retain and optimize the young talent we have. Among those three, I might be willing to move Moore and Garza, but absolutely not Minott.

4. Who I would shop: DLO seems like the obvious asset to shop around. The problem is that his expiring contract is his only meaningful market value, which means we'd have to take an equally big but longer contract in return and probably include an outgoing asset that has some value. The most logical pairing would probably be DLO and Naz. I hate to lose Naz, but we have Rudy, KAT, Knight and Garza so we have enough bigs. Naz probably has some decent trade value and paired with DLO's expiring contract, there might be a deal that could bring in a player to help. Other players I'd consider including to in an outgoing package would include Prince, Knight and even Anderson albeit reluctantly.

5. Would I shop Gobert? In a word, yes. I'm probably the only one on this board who would and I can't see Connelly doing it. But yes, I didn't like the Gobert experiment to begin with and everything I'd seen so far has simply confirmed by initial view. He's not as good as many thought and he's a poor fit for this team. If up to me, I'd rip the bandaid off this season if things continue to go poorly. Admit the mistake and move on getting as much in return for Gobert as possible before his value goes down or he gets hurt. Of course, we won't get anything close to what we gave up. But that was true the moment we did the deal. His market value is no less now than it was then and it won't go up over time as he moves into his 30s. The Wolves simply paid more than market value for him because of a false impression of the value they thought he'd have for this team. The key would be to find other teams with playoff aspirations who are underperforming. Those team include the Lakers, Bulls, Hornets, Nets, Knicks and Hawks. The Wizards and Raptors might also be teams with interest in Rudy. Here's an interesting question: What if the Wolves offered Rudy and Knight for DeJounte Murray and John Collins? Or Murray and Capela? Maybe substitute Naz for Knight? Would the Hawks do any of those deals?

WHAT WILL THE WOLVES FRONT OFFICE DO?

I have no idea. I've given up on trying to track the thinking of Tim Connelly and his cohorts. But I'm certain they won't consider trading Gobert. If nothing else, their egos won't allow it.

My guess is that they'll wait as I would until after Christmas. If the team is still limping along at .500 or below, then I think they'll work to move DLO and Naz Reid for a player who they believe can be a difference-maker this season. Ultimately, I think they'll be willing to trade any player except Gobert, Edwards, McDaniels, Anderson and JMac.

The fact that Towns is out for a while is exactly the scenario of why it made sense to keep Naz Reid for this season.

In addition I continue to believe despite being a big fan of Naz that he simply isn't much of an asset as an expiring contract going into an offseason where a bunch of teams will have plenty of money to spend. I think he or Nowell would likely have more value as a rental to help a team get to the playoffs and beyond while maybe being able to be resigned. Nowell is obviously struggling shooting the 3 and is less proven. Naz is a big and unless some team believes at some point before the trade deadline his value is higher than it was a few months ago he probably has more value to the Wolves. Unless they really fall in the standings which could happen but they do have depth with Naz and Anderson plus Knight who has some experience filling in at times. This could be Naz's chance to make himself some money while keeping the wolves season afloat.

I'm giving this thread another thought because it's a fun brainstorming exercise, especially late in the evening. I know it seems difficult to believe right now, but I do still think the current roster can and will figure it out to some degree. I'm a little more unsure whether Chris Finch will get this team to their theoretical peak, but a playoff team nonetheless.

The issue when searching for trades to improve this team is pretty straightforward. What the Wolves need is difficult to acquire and limited in supply, and they have few tradable mid-level salaries to get it. The Timberwolves basically have max contract slots and near minimum salaries in abundance. That reality restricts much of their flexibility in deal-making -- along with their tradable draft capital being owned by Utah.

I've long been a believer that no player is truly untouchable, but for Minnesota's sake we'll assume that the 21-year old Anthony Edwards isn't going anywhere. Karl-Anthony Towns literally can't be traded for one full-year since he signed his Designated Veteran extension -- or until July 7th, 2023. I also tend to think that ownership and the front office would rather not trade Towns considering his stature and loyalty in Minnesota. It's probably not a good look to give him the supermax and then deal him soon after, but that's just speculation on my part.

Jaden McDaniels is another player that probably isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Minnesota gambled on his potential and development by withholding him from any trades this past summer. After a cold start to the season shooting the ball from the perimeter, he's been awesome the past couple of weeks and is looking like a very valuable piece to any team serious about winning. Far from a perfect player or even an All-Star, but what he provides is difficult to find and even harder to acquire.

Moving on to Rudy Gobert, this is where things could get interesting. I actually do think he could be traded sometime this season if Minnesota continues to flounder and Towns returns healthy. As others have articulated, it's highly unlikely they could get back exactly what was given up for Gobert this past summer, however, the potential equalizer is that they would likely get back much better win-now players than they sent out -- as well as some draft capital to restock the war chest. To reiterate, they will not find a team that is willing to give up four future first-round picks and additional young talent for Gobert, but they could get back proven, win-now players that fit the roster better along with multiple picks, albeit not four.

Several examples of trades that could make sense to me in the event the Wolves pull the plug on Gobert are:

- Minnesota trades Rudy Gobert and Bryn Forbes to Toronto for O.G. Anunoby, Gary Trent Jr., 2023 first-round pick (unprotected via TOR) and 2025 first-round pick (unprotected via TOR)

- Minnesota trades Rudy Gobert and Kyle Anderson to Brooklyn for Ben Simmons, Nic Claxton, and 2023 first-round pick (unprotected via PHI)

- Minnesota trades Rudy Gobert to Charlotte for Gordon Hayward, Mason Plumlee, 2023 first-round pick (top-14 protected via DEN), 2025 first-round pick (unprotected via CHA), and 2027 first-round pick (unprotected via CHA)

D'Angelo Russell is sure to be a hot name in trade discussions as well, but I'm not sure what Minnesota could expect to get back in return that's actually better than him -- either an individual player or multiple players that combine to be better. And any argument that suggests the Wolves would simply be better by subtraction is foolishness. At risk of causing more uproar, my suggestion would be to ride it out with Russell and re-evaluate him after the season as he may end up taking a team-friendly deal. However, if Minnesota was to find a trade for him I tend to think it would look pretty similar to the deal Dallas made last year involving Kristaps Porzingis where they took back future salary spread amongst multiple players. The number of suitors are sure to be limited, but the following could work, in theory.

- Minnesota trades D'Angelo Russell and Jaylen Nowell to Washington for Monte Morris, Will Barton, and Delon Wright

- Minnesota trades D'Angelo Russell to San Antonio for Doug McDermott and Josh Richardson

- Minnesota trades D'Angelo Russell and Bryn Forbes to Dallas for Tim Hardaway Jr. and Davis Bertans

The remainder of the Wolves' roster is either more valuable to them than another team, or has minimal to no trade value on their own. This grouping is made up of: Kyle Anderson, Taurean Prince, Jordan McLaughlin, Naz Reid, Jaylen Nowell, Wendell Moore Jr., Josh Minott, Luka Garza, Nathan Knight, A.J. Lawson, Austin Rivers, and Bryn Forbes.

I'm not a DLO fan. But I'm slowing coming around to the thought process of riding it out with him this year. I agree that it's probably not going to be easy to replace his production - at least on the offensive end. I do like the fact that he can score in bunches when he's on. If he can dial it back on the days he's off - I can live with riding him out this year.

Based on the advanced stats I trust most (PER, Win Shares and VORP), Russell has been fine this year. As has been stated above me, I'm not sure we'd "win" any trade that sends him out because he probably has more value to us than another team. Also, since I feel the leadership is in "win now" mode, they are less likely to upend the PG position unless is a huge problem. For those reasons, I don't think Russell is going anywhere.

For all the heat Cam takes for being a Dlo-stan, most of those trades are a pretty fair assessment of how Dlo is viewed in the league and where his play is at. I would do that Washington trade. No thanks on the other two.

Q-was-here wrote:I think there are really only two levers the front office can pull during this season (the offseason is another matter). One is the head coach and the other is DLO, not necessarily in that order. There is no way Ant gets traded.

As for the totality of assets we have (players and future picks), I don't think the situation is nearly as dire as some folks make it out to be. If we need to do a major re-set this offseason, the sum of our current parts are definitely greater than the whole. We absolutely have players that other teams would put quite a high value on.

Think of it like a private equity firm or activist investor would look at a company with disparate product lines and operations, each of which by itself contains value, but as a whole doesn't fit well together. What happens is that the company gets broken up into multiple pieces via spinouts or asset sales with the end result being a much more focused core business.

If TC ends up going "whoops, my fault, we messed up!" this offseason, he has plenty of options to hit the re-set button and still put together a competitive team in 2023/24. I think the question he needs to answer is what are the core assets that he absolutely wants to keep and re-tool around. I would think most here would say Ant and Jaden. Everything else would be for sale.

I do not understand anybody who talks about trading Ant as an option. Or Jaden. They are the franchise, pivoting them to build around KAT/Gobert/Dlo would be beyond stupid.

Gobert isn't an option either, the sunk cost would be too much to face.

This is the team fans will follow. Every trade that could be made will be a loss because there is zero leverage on the Wolves side.

TheFuture wrote:
I do not understand anybody who talks about trading Ant as an option. Or Jaden. They are the franchise, pivoting them to build around KAT/Gobert/Dlo would be beyond stupid.

Gobert isn't an option either, the sunk cost would be too much to face.

This is the team fans will follow. Every trade that could be made will be a loss because there is zero leverage on the Wolves side.

Maybe you do not agree with it. But didn't the already pivot to KAT/Gobert/DLO when they traded away most of their future draft picks for this decade? I'm not even saying I agree with it (I wouldn't have done the Gobert deal). The purpose of this thread is that these are the cards we are currently holding. How do we play our hand?

In my mind, there is no way TC is going to let this fail. If we suck, then those picks end up being lotto picks. If that happens, he loses his job and goes down in history as one of the worst. He's going to do everything he can to make sure that doesn't happen.

Guys - we just went through this shit with Thibodeau - remember? His signature move was the Butler deal. When the big guys go all in - they don't give a shit about the future. They know they need to win now or they are gone. That means everything is on the table in my mind with the exception of Gobert since they are obviously not going to go back on that signature move so soon.

Carlos Danger wrote:

TheFuture wrote:
I do not understand anybody who talks about trading Ant as an option. Or Jaden. They are the franchise, pivoting them to build around KAT/Gobert/Dlo would be beyond stupid.

Gobert isn't an option either, the sunk cost would be too much to face.

This is the team fans will follow. Every trade that could be made will be a loss because there is zero leverage on the Wolves side.

Maybe you do not agree with it. But didn't the already pivot to KAT/Gobert/DLO when they traded away most of their future draft picks for this decade? I'm not even saying I agree with it (I wouldn't have done the Gobert deal). The purpose of this thread is that these are the cards we are currently holding. How do we play our hand?

In my mind, there is no way TC is going to let this fail. If we suck, then those picks end up being lotto picks. If that happens, he loses his job and goes down in history as one of the worst. He's going to do everything he can to make sure that doesn't happen.

Guys - we just went through this shit with Thibodeau - remember? His signature move was the Butler deal. When the big guys go all in - they don't give a shit about the future. They know they need to win now or they are gone. That means everything is on the table in my mind with the exception of Gobert since they are obviously not going to go back on that signature move so soon.

I'm not so sure that TC won't ultimately trade Gobert. He won't do it this season, but I could see him dealing Rudy after the season. If his signature move doesn't work and we end up on the lottery, then I don't think the Wolves front office will leave anything off the table next summer. We'll have to see how this team performs with KAT out the next 4-6 weeks. How will Rudy perform with this team and no KAT. Hopefully, the first half tonight is not indicative of what we can expect from him. Rosas went all in re-signing Juancho and traded up to draft Culver. But he eventually owned and sought to correct his those mistakes, dealing them for Beverley. He also moved on from Ricky. I always admired Rosas for being willing to recognize his mistakes and deal the players he made a big effort to get. We don't know much about TC, but he doesn't seem to have a huge ego. So I think he'll be a guy willing to step up and deal away his mistakes.

lipoli390 wrote:

Carlos Danger wrote:

TheFuture wrote:
I do not understand anybody who talks about trading Ant as an option. Or Jaden. They are the franchise, pivoting them to build around KAT/Gobert/Dlo would be beyond stupid.

Gobert isn't an option either, the sunk cost would be too much to face.

This is the team fans will follow. Every trade that could be made will be a loss because there is zero leverage on the Wolves side.

Maybe you do not agree with it. But didn't the already pivot to KAT/Gobert/DLO when they traded away most of their future draft picks for this decade? I'm not even saying I agree with it (I wouldn't have done the Gobert deal). The purpose of this thread is that these are the cards we are currently holding. How do we play our hand?

In my mind, there is no way TC is going to let this fail. If we suck, then those picks end up being lotto picks. If that happens, he loses his job and goes down in history as one of the worst. He's going to do everything he can to make sure that doesn't happen.

Guys - we just went through this shit with Thibodeau - remember? His signature move was the Butler deal. When the big guys go all in - they don't give a shit about the future. They know they need to win now or they are gone. That means everything is on the table in my mind with the exception of Gobert since they are obviously not going to go back on that signature move so soon.

I'm not so sure that TC won't ultimately trade Gobert. He won't do it this season, but I could see him dealing Rudy after the season. If his signature move doesn't work and we end up on the lottery, then I don't think the Wolves front office will leave anything off the table next summer. We'll have to see how this team performs with KAT out the next 4-6 weeks. How will Rudy perform with this team and no KAT. Hopefully, the first half tonight is not indicative of what we can expect from him. Rosas went all in re-signing Juancho and traded up to draft Culver. But he eventually owned and sought to correct his those mistakes, dealing them for Beverley. He also moved on from Ricky. I always admired Rosas for being willing to recognize his mistakes and deal the players he made a big effort to get. We don't know much about TC, but he doesn't seem to have a huge ego. So I think he'll be a guy willing to step up and deal away his mistakes.

I think Rosas wanted a guy like Beverly. I don't think it was just Rosas though there was or is still someone in the Wolves organization that had seemed to REALLY like those tough combo guards. Regardless that deal for Beverly for basically junk was a hell of a deal for the Wolves even if it was for just one season.