Minnesota Sports Forum

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:The time is here. It's the trade deadline version of: which team says no? Is this a trade that you would even want the Wolves to make if it was available? Remaining contract values after this season are included in parentheses for the players below.

Wolves:
- Patrick Beverley (1-year, $14.3-million)
- Marvin Bagley III (1-year, $11.3-million)
- 2023 second-round pick (via Los Angeles)

Kings:
- Jarrett Culver (2-year, $14.5-million w/ TO's)
- Patrick Patterson (UFA)
- 2022 second-round pick (via Los Angeles)

Clippers:
- Ricky Rubio (1-year, $17.8-million)

Sure. But why would the Kings do that?

Trading out one former top pick needing a new home for another, for starters. Rumor has it that Bagley wants out and he's already been shopped around the league without garnering much interest due to his high cap hit next season and his issues the last two seasons. Sacramento wanted a first-round pick for him a month ago. Teams are reportedly waiting for the Kings to sell very low or essentially give him away. I don't see them getting much better than what I afforded them in my hypothetical trade.

Sure. But as I mentioned before... that's a tough sell for Sacramento.

It's one thing to give up on the malcontent they took #2 in the draft. But for a guy like Culver (#6) and who's played even worse is tough sell.

At least Bagley is a starter with volume stats (14/7). Culver would be be a bench guy, possibly not even in the rotation? Again, I get the premise... just not with Bagley or the Kings.

Right, but it's about what Sacramento can command in return, is it not? Bagley is not staying with the Kings. Given that he's likely asked for a trade and they're already shopping him it's clear that holding on to him just isn't an option no matter what his stats are. They were recently reported to have offered Bagley to Detroit for Saddiq Bey and were denied. To me, that sets the bar in terms of asking price as well as what that franchise is willing to sell to their fans.

Also, how many interested teams are there and what do they have to offer? Less trading partners, less demand, the lower the price. This is looking like a Derrick Williams situation where they'll end up taking what they can get just to move on.

There's a big gap between Saddiq Bey and Culver.

Bey has size and a role in the NBA. He's already shooting three pointers above league average (38.6%) on high volume. He has every making thus far of a decent (even starter for most teams) wing player. He's been a plus player (or at least a wash) as a rookie on a bad team.

Culver can't shoot, which leaves him without a role in the NBA. He's not close to an average player and its nearing the end of year two. He's still under 50% from the line for his career.

Culver also makes more than 2x as much as Bey.

I'm well aware of how good Saddiq Bey is given that I pounded the table for him leading up to and on draft night. He's also having an excellent rookie season and leading all rookies in threes made last time I checked. Bey is clearly a valuable player and obviously more so than Jarrett Culver.

But my point wasn't to compare those two at all. My point was that the Kings attempted to trade Bagley for Bey and were turned down, which tells me that Bagley can likely be had for less than Bey and probably significantly less. A former -- and struggling -- sixth-overall pick and a future second-round draft pick might end up being better than whatever Sacramento eventually receives for Bagley. That's all that I'm getting at.

Camden wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:The time is here. It's the trade deadline version of: which team says no? Is this a trade that you would even want the Wolves to make if it was available? Remaining contract values after this season are included in parentheses for the players below.

Wolves:
- Patrick Beverley (1-year, $14.3-million)
- Marvin Bagley III (1-year, $11.3-million)
- 2023 second-round pick (via Los Angeles)

Kings:
- Jarrett Culver (2-year, $14.5-million w/ TO's)
- Patrick Patterson (UFA)
- 2022 second-round pick (via Los Angeles)

Clippers:
- Ricky Rubio (1-year, $17.8-million)

Sure. But why would the Kings do that?

Trading out one former top pick needing a new home for another, for starters. Rumor has it that Bagley wants out and he's already been shopped around the league without garnering much interest due to his high cap hit next season and his issues the last two seasons. Sacramento wanted a first-round pick for him a month ago. Teams are reportedly waiting for the Kings to sell very low or essentially give him away. I don't see them getting much better than what I afforded them in my hypothetical trade.

Sure. But as I mentioned before... that's a tough sell for Sacramento.

It's one thing to give up on the malcontent they took #2 in the draft. But for a guy like Culver (#6) and who's played even worse is tough sell.

At least Bagley is a starter with volume stats (14/7). Culver would be be a bench guy, possibly not even in the rotation? Again, I get the premise... just not with Bagley or the Kings.

Right, but it's about what Sacramento can command in return, is it not? Bagley is not staying with the Kings. Given that he's likely asked for a trade and they're already shopping him it's clear that holding on to him just isn't an option no matter what his stats are. They were recently reported to have offered Bagley to Detroit for Saddiq Bey and were denied. To me, that sets the bar in terms of asking price as well as what that franchise is willing to sell to their fans.

Also, how many interested teams are there and what do they have to offer? Less trading partners, less demand, the lower the price. This is looking like a Derrick Williams situation where they'll end up taking what they can get just to move on.

There's a big gap between Saddiq Bey and Culver.

Bey has size and a role in the NBA. He's already shooting three pointers above league average (38.6%) on high volume. He has every making thus far of a decent (even starter for most teams) wing player. He's been a plus player (or at least a wash) as a rookie on a bad team.

Culver can't shoot, which leaves him without a role in the NBA. He's not close to an average player and its nearing the end of year two. He's still under 50% from the line for his career.

Culver also makes more than 2x as much as Bey.

I'm well aware of how good Saddiq Bey is given that I pounded the table for him leading up to and on draft night. He's also having an excellent rookie season and leading all rookies in threes made last time I checked. Bey is clearly a valuable player and obviously more so than Jarrett Culver.

But my point wasn't to compare those two at all. My point was that the Kings attempted to trade Bagley for Bey and were turned down, which tells me that Bagley can likely be had for less than Bey and probably significantly less. A former -- and struggling -- sixth-overall pick and a future second-round draft pick might end up being better than whatever Sacramento eventually receives for Bagley. That's all that I'm getting at.

Sure. Bagley could be had. We agree on that.

I'm just saying Culver and a LA 2nd isn't going to get the Wolves near the door.

There is a Culver trade item in here. What a terrible draft pick by Rosas.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31113290/nba-trade-deadline-underrated-prospects-thrive-trade

CoolBreeze44 wrote:There is a Culver trade item in here. What a terrible draft pick by Rosas.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31113290/nba-trade-deadline-underrated-prospects-thrive-trade

It's been really bad. If a player can't make it two years it's not usually a good sign. But maybe he is just the next Chauncy Billups. I wouldn't put it past the Wolves to miss out on this situation.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:There is a Culver trade item in here. What a terrible draft pick by Rosas.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31113290/nba-trade-deadline-underrated-prospects-thrive-trade

Ah. I see Cool works in subscription services for ESPN.

Nice try, pal. But I'm on to your ruse. You're not tricking me into ponying up money to see the article. Can you copy and paste?

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:There is a Culver trade item in here. What a terrible draft pick by Rosas.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31113290/nba-trade-deadline-underrated-prospects-thrive-trade

Ah. I see Cool works in subscription services for ESPN.

Nice try, pal. But I'm on to your ruse. You're not tricking me into ponying up money to see the article. Can you copy and paste?

Ha. No doubt. I have The Athletic covered for future copy and paste dilemmas. I haven't given ESPN my money since Chad Ford got exposed for editing his past mock drafts for clout.

Sorry guys, forgot I was on + content. Let's try this:

Jarrett Culver
6-foot-6 wing | No. 6 pick in 2019 | 22 years old

It doesn't take an analytical deep dive to conclude that Culver has not been good through his first 84 NBA games. Among the 207 players to average more than 20 minutes per game last season, Culver finished 206th in true shooting percentage. His woeful efficiency has been the same this season, and Jaylen Nowell, who was drafted 37 spots after Culver in 2019 is outshining him under Chris Finch. With a new head coach in place in Minnesota and so much excitement around electric rookie guard Anthony Edwards and rookie wing Jaden McDaniels, Culver appears to be the odd man out.

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I never viewed Culver as a potential top-five pick leading up to the 2019 NBA draft and thought much of his production was a product of volume, role and situation at Texas Tech. But I still like Culver as a utility wing who can add value defensively. He's 6-foot-6, 200 pounds with a 6-foot-9 wingspan and can fill in the gaps offensively as a slasher, cutter, ball mover and secondary playmaker. Think Josh Hart, who was Culver's age when he was drafted as the 30th overall pick, and might be viewed differently if he'd entered the league with the expectations that come with being the No. 6 pick like Culver.

When projecting Culver's next few years, it's important to remember that as recently as 2016 he was a three-star recruit without much buzz out of high school. He was a self-made player in a lot of ways at Texas Tech and was often praised for his work ethic and rate of improvement. Given that track record, you can't rule out the potential for future development in the right situation.

As he irons out his wonky jumper (career 29% from 3, 49% from the free throw line), I'd be interested to see Culver in a Bruce Brown type of role on a competitive playoff team in which some of his strengths are more valued and his weaknesses less glaring. A change of scenery to a franchise in need of perimeter defense could help unlock his best attributes. Culver isn't the top-10 pick the Minnesota Timberwolves hoped for when they drafted him, and his salary ($12.5 million guaranteed through 2022) might make him less attractive to potential suitors, but there's still something there with the 22-year-old

I think that's a pretty accurate write-up for Culver.

No one is taking Culver. Period. He is a horrible player on a very poor contract. That ship sailed when this season began, and Culver showed up as the same guy.

I think Cam's suggested 3-way deal with the Clippers and Kings is realistic, and if I were in Gersson's shoes, I'd do it. I agree with Cam's analysis on why the Kings might do that deal. It sounds like there's not much of a market for Bagley.