Minnesota Sports Forum

lipoli390 wrote:

FNG wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

FNG wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

TheSP wrote:Rosas isn't going anyplace anytime soon. His teams have been without one of their two highest paid players for virtually his entire time with the team. And now even without DLO and Beasley the team is showing signs of being competitive. And it's not as though anybody thinks the current roster is in any way what Rosas envisions.

I'm actually starting to have hope once again, but then again I'm a fool What is that saying about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? LOL

Because the Wolves are a toxic relationship for us. We just see a little hope and we jump on it. I do like though Wolves have won 2 of 3 when Kat hasn't needed a 30/15 game to lead them to a win

KAT is better without DLO now then DLO without KAT.

Culver, Vandy and a 1st top 10 protected while protection moves down in following years if not met.

Or Beasley and Vandy straight up for Collins.

It makes sense to include a PF in the deal and I'm not letting them have McDaniels. With Ant's last couple fairly good games I'm not letting him go either. Ant and McDaniels would be off the table.

Man, I would love to get Collins for the 2 deals you suggest, WF...I do either one in a nanosecond. The problem is I don't believe Atlanta is thinking like us. They see Collins as a young superstar, and I'm sure they don't see Culver, Beasley and Vando as superstars. I would love to be wrong, but I don't think we get the Hawks to pick up the phone without mentioning Ant or DLO. And I'm with everyone here...don't include Ant in any deal.

I think Atlanta views Collins as a very good player who's about to command a max salary that they're not willing to pay. The Hawks have repeatedly brought in centers and PFs since drafting Collins. This list includes Capella, Fernando, Okongwu, Hunter and Gallinari. Those were pretty big contracts or high draft picks. At the same time, Atlanta has reportedly been shopping Collins for the past year. So I don't think Atlanta views Collins as a premium value player for their team. Therefore, the Wolves would have to give up for him turns on what other teams are willing to offer. The smart thing for the Wolves front office would be to decide what price they're willing to pay for Collins and stick to that price regardless of what other teams might be offering. If it's not good enough to get Collins then so be it. That's the only way to run a successful business of any kind, including an NBA franchise. I like Collins a lot, but obviously he's not Durant, Harden, LeBron, or AD - not even close. He'd be a nice piece to add, but he's not the holy grail.

I would definitely offer the "see-if-they'll-bite" deals proposed here, Lip. But I don't think Atlanta will take them seriously. So here's the question: If they offer a sign-and-trade to us of Collins (at a near max) for DLO, do you take it? And further, does Atlanta?

Good question, FNG. I would definitely do that deal if I were the Wolves PBO. That's because I don't see DLO as a good fit here. He's a poor defender and our other max player isn't a good defender either. He's also a ball-stopper who stifles ball movement on the offensive end. He's a better fit off the ball, but Rosas brought him here to be our PG and that won't work well for us in my view.. Furthermore, he's only had one good season out of six. Of course, for all those reasons, I doubt the Hawks would do that deal.

Like you, I'd proposed a number fo see-if-they'll-bit deals and I'd include the DLO deal you suggested among them. But my bottom line is that I wouldn't include KAT, Ant, McDaniels, Nowell or a future 1st unless lottery protected, eventually converting to a 2nd round pick if not conveyed in 2 years. Note that I'm taken Beasley off my protected list. I'd still be very reluctant to include him in a deal for Collins and if we did, I definitely would not include a future 1st or DLO. So I'm not sure about including Beasley.

Yeah, I agree with most of this, Lip. There seems to be a lot of steam around a possible Collins deal...reports are that Rosas really wants Collins, and Atlanta needs to move him because they're not going to pay him with all the other bigs they have on their roster. So I like the Collins topic because I think a deal is more likely than other rumored deals. Here are my thoughts:

1) I hear Cool's argument that DLO is untradeable...that he is a hot potato who has ended up with the dumbest POBO. I'm not a fan of Russell's overall game, but I also don't see the situation quite as dire as Cool paints it. I think DLO still has some intrigue around the league. While not an efficient scorer or distributor, he is certainly a proven volume scorer and distributor...over 21 points and 6 assists per game each of the past three years. Those are good numbers, and he's still young. Some POBO is going to bite...again.

2) I also hear Cam's argument that Atlanta is not a good fit for Russell because they already have a high-scoring, ball-dominant (albeit poor-defending) PG in Trae Young. This is all true. But Atlanta might see Young and DLO as a very potent scoring backcourt that might fit in well with its assortment of bigs. Young is not only a great scorer...he also averages over 9 assists per game. With him occupying a lot of defensive attention, DLO could get a lot of easy looks and become an even more potent scorer. Again, I think two guards who don't score efficiently or play defense would be a disaster. But you can't say they wouldn't score a lot of points together. Atlanta just might think that is intriguing enough to pull the trigger.

3) The Wolves have a glut of PGs and wings, but while they have some interesting options at PF, there really isn't anyone who is a true NBA-caliber starter...at least not yet. I think we have plenty of guys who can capably fill in for DLO at the 1 and 2, but nobody of Collins' caliber at PF. This roster sounds quite good to me:

KAT/Reid/Davis
Collins/Vando/Juancho
Edwards/McDaniels/Layman
Beasley/Okogie/Culver
Rubio/Nowell/J-Mac

I guess I still think that Atlanta will get a better offer and the Collins dream will die, but I think you can at least make a coherent case for why a Collins/DLO trade could help both teams...even if I tend to think it helps our team more.

Until Gordon's left ankle sprain that sidelined him for six weeks, the Timberwolves and Magic were nearing an agreement on a package for Gordon that centered on Ricky Rubio and future draft capital, sources said.

Link: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2936163-rival-nba-execs-see-major-trade-opportunity-in-orlandos-available-stars

This is the kind of trade that I fear. Aaron Gordon is a fine player. He's kind of a jack-of-many-trades and a master of none. The guy doesn't move the needle, in my opinion. He's merely a solid glue guy that plays off of better players. I don't think that's a knock, but he needs to go to an already good team. He's not a player that can elevate a bad team. I didn't want to give up the No. 17 pick for him last fall and I definitely don't want to give up a future pick for him, especially if that pick could have been used in a trade that landed the Wolves a much better player than Gordon, such as John Collins, for example.

And then there's the fact that Ricky Rubio was also involved in this report. I think it's good that Gersson Rosas is shopping him, or at least open to moving him, but I think he's going to make a deal involving Rubio that makes the draft night trade for him look even dumber, in my opinion.

Camden wrote:

Until Gordon's left ankle sprain that sidelined him for six weeks, the Timberwolves and Magic were nearing an agreement on a package for Gordon that centered on Ricky Rubio and future draft capital, sources said.

Link: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2936163-rival-nba-execs-see-major-trade-opportunity-in-orlandos-available-stars

This is the kind of trade that I fear. Aaron Gordon is a fine player. He's kind of a jack-of-many-trades and a master of none. The guy doesn't move the needle, in my opinion. He's merely a solid glue guy that plays off of better players. I don't think that's a knock, but he needs to go to an already good team. He's not a player that can elevate a bad team. I didn't want to give up the No. 17 pick for him last fall and I definitely don't want to give up a future pick for him, especially if that pick could have been used in a trade that landed the Wolves a much better player than Gordon, such as John Collins, for example.

And then there's the fact that Ricky Rubio was also involved in this report. I think it's good that Gersson Rosas is shopping him, or at least open to moving him, but I think he's going to make a deal involving Rubio that makes the draft night trade for him look even dumber, in my opinion.

Cam - I agree completely!!