OT - Making Sense of Tragedy

[mrhockey89]

Seems like most everyone on this board (thread) seem to have similar views of what's happening. Camden, I think what you're referring to in terms of data is the Harvard study that was done on racism as it pertains to policing, which seems to suggest the narrative of the BLM movement isn't completely off base but isn't steered toward the correct type of police interactions. I'll digress, but if anyone isn't familiar with the Roland Fryer analysis it's pretty interesting.

[mrhockey89]

I should probably clarify that I also think that the cop used excessive force and should be held accountable (just in case it came across as me thinking that was insignificant).

[bleedspeed]

I should probably clarify that I also think that the cop used excessive force and should be held accountable (just in case it came across as me thinking that was insignificant).

I would agree. Right now we have a lot of crimes to go around. In a perfect world, we would deal with all of them.

[thedoper]

Rioting is wrong. But the anger of youth in the face of the racism being employed by tax-supported agents of the state against black youth is understandable though not justifiable by a measure of pure ethics. If I was younger and had the state supporting violence and murder against me I would be pretty angry too and would likely take it out in ways that weren't logical.

Plain and simple blacks are 12.6% of the population of the USA and regularly account for a quarter of the deaths by the hands of police. Add in all people of color and they account for over half. This is systemic racism, whether the causes are external or internal to those communities.

[AbeVigodaLive]

There's a lot of good in rural Minnesota, but the Cities is a complete embarrassment. To be compared to California and New York politically is not something to be proud of.

I cringed reading this.

And I'm not a liberal.*

It's just the type of thinking that creates a further divide. Personally, I've always welcomed my time here because it was a respite from the partisan political crap that permeates so many other places.





* Well, except maybe from the view of alt-right types who think being pragmatic is a sign of weakness. By the way, many of those on the other end of the spectrum also believe compromise is NOT an option. So... here we are.

[kekgeek]

My opinion as a late 20s white american who probably leans liberal (I would vote for a republican and have voted for republicans in the past but I also think Trump is a terrible president).I also have 2 retired policemen in my family (Grandpa and Uncle) I just wrote that for background on myself.

Geroge Floyd was murder that set off the ticking time bomb this nation has been pushing under the rug for years in my opinion. Do I love that there are riots. No I do not but I completely understand why they are happening. There has been multiple peaceful protests on this matter that have changed nothing in this nation and after a few weeks everything goes back to normal. Colin Kapernick kneels during the national anthem in protest and the naritive gets changed from wanting to peacefully protest police brutality to he is disrespecting the flag and called a "Son of Bitch" by the President of the United States. So peaceful protests have not worked or made a change so I understand why people are angry and feel like they need to destroy stuff to get people to listen and hopefully change things. After MLKs death there were riots and 7 days later the Civil Rights act of 1968 was signed. Violence and riots made a change. These last 7 days there has been more talk on race and equality then there has been since I've been alive and that is because of the riots. Now will things change I don't know, I hope but I don't know. I also want to say there are probably many people using the Murder of George Floyd to loot and destroy things, who could care less about equal right, police brutality or #blacklivesmatter and those people are assholes.

I also need to be better, Freshman year of college I was assigned a African American Roommate from Chicago and the first thought I thought was negative thoughts. Why is that? It could be my background that I graduated with maybe 10 African Americans in my hometown with a graduating class of 250ish people. So why did I come up with negative thoughts, he was just as educated as me, able to get into the exact same school as me. He was a great roommate, and we got along just as well as you can expect from random freshman roommates and we are not super close now but I had initial negative reaction subconsciously because of his skin color and where he was from. Until I stop thinking like that I am not perfect and I need to change and the system needs to change.

I also work with kids, of all races and I just keep thinking of a scenario that happened within the last year with a family I work with. It is a mixed family and 2 brother got into a physical altercation. One was white (who has had many run ins with the cops) one was black (0 run ins with the cops and no record). Cops were called and guns were pointed at the African American, he was told to get on the ground. He was taken out of his house for the night, he was told that if this happened again we will have to take you away. Not the person who has had run ins with cops before. I just can't stop thinking about that these last few days.

Until African Americans can look without fear at cops the way I do there needs to be a change. Do I have all the answers obviously not. Are all cops bad, obviously not.

Sorry for the long post. #blacklivesmatter (this does not mean all lives don't matter, it means this group is hurting and needs help, until we all feel the same #blacklivesmatter)

[bleedspeed]

I don't think America changes until we start seeing people for their values and actions. Everytime someone refers to these events using color or country of origin I cringe. I hate that events like this make me even think about it. It reminds me that my wife was born of Korean parents. It reminds me that my brother in law was born of African American parents. We need to stop that.

My wife has no sympathy for people playing the victim and race card. She goes straight to a person's actions and accountability. She was asked to join a diversity council in college to be president. She turned that down saying she didn't have problems making friends. Her brother is the same way he can't stand BLM and says they are doing more harm than good. Both came out of rural Minnesota and are both comfortable here.

We are never going to be able to take away that initial judgment instinct. Society, media, and news to bake stuff into our heads that doesn't help. Next time you catch yourself making a judgment about someone without warrant say hello or have a great day. I bet you will find quickly your judgment changes as you go from visual cues to how they react. It always shocks the crap out of me.

[BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]]

I hope my Minneapolis friends on this board are staying safe. Here in Chicago and elsewhere it's just as bad if not worse. I think Kek said how condemnation and peaceful protest don't seem to work. But you can't destroy your neighborhoods.

The Supreme Court has to take action here and change the "blue laws" so this behavior happens much less. But with the Orange cheeto in charge and showing no leadership once again, sadly nothing will change until we vote these people out.

[Monster]

I don't think America changes until we start seeing people for their values and actions. Everytime someone refers to these events using color or country of origin I cringe. I hate that events like this make me even think about it. It reminds me that my wife was born of Korean parents. It reminds me that my brother in law was born of African American parents. We need to stop that.

My wife has no sympathy for people playing the victim and race card. She goes straight to a person's actions and accountability. She was asked to join a diversity council in college to be president. She turned that down saying she didn't have problems making friends. Her brother is the same way he can't stand BLM and says they are doing more harm than good. Both came out of rural Minnesota and are both comfortable here.

We are never going to be able to take away that initial judgment instinct. Society, media, and news to bake stuff into our heads that doesn't help. Next time you catch yourself making a judgment about someone without warrant say hello or have a great day. I bet you will find quickly your judgment changes as you go from visual cues to how they react. It always shocks the crap out of me.

We all have some biases. I also think noticing differences is human. It's part of our actual brain fiction. How are you going to process your world if you don't see differences? What is bad is when those differences aren't celebrated they are stereotyped, ignored etc.

Each of us have a particular culture even if we grew up in similar areas and have similar backgrounds. One my friends who came to this country from South America as a kid (not legally) likes to learn about different cultures. He has some fun with people turning the table on them asking if they know their heritage because they have say a German name or what their last name means. He says many younger people have no clue but it gets them thinking. BLM is certainly not a shy movement but they want people to pay attention to a general group Black people that does seem to have been pushed aside. Does it divide to some extent? Yes. Should it? Probably. There has to be some cognitive dissonance for change to happen. I think what you and some other have gotten at in this thread about a few things is that sometimes these go to a place where people don't feel open it closes them down. It doesn't make them feel safe to share. I know I've felt that way at times for sure the past few days. We also need to be careful not to lump all of the group together. I went to the Capitol Building protest yesterday. It was a pretty big turnout. There was a massive spectrum of people there. I didn't agree with everyone's positions based on some of the signs people had. I assume though that there was some common purpose there even with the wide spectrum of views.

The longer I live the more it seems things are so much more nuanced I find less and less absolutes that apply. I do think there are some Absolutes but I find more and more grey than black and white. That's a more difficult world to live in for a variety of reasons. Again our brain tries to process our world in part comparing one thing to another thing. We do it all the time on this forum. It's not a perfect way but sometimes it's about all we have. It's difficult and takes effort and a decision to do so but staying open to new possibilities and learning is a great way to not just get stuck in one way of thinking. I wish I did more of that constructively myself. I genuinely think that everyone on this board are people that do put forth some effort into being open and learning and that's why it's a pretty good community to be a part of. Is it perfect? No but it's nothing like some other places where it's just people trolling constantly or just lighting people up for not knowing something pretty basic.

How we value people the last few weeks has been altered a bit. Now we talk about "essential" workers. There are certainly people that were not recognized at all that are now being celebrated. Work places are possibly changed forever. How can society have real lasting change for valuing each other differently than we do now? It's fascinating to think about.

[Porckchop]

When these civil suit cases come out maybe the money should be taken out of police pensions and retirement funds. Let's see how cops react then.