When is Towns asking out?

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

If he doesn't show up and play defense this year on a level we haven't seen I really don't care when the request to get out comes. He'd be doing us a favor at that point. His reputation nationally is not good enough where he's going to get to pick his landing spot so we'll be able to get a haul for him. I just wish the timing was better where Harden to Philly, Simmons to MN, Towns to Hou made sense but MN and Philly are trying to see if they can make what they have work one more year and I just don't see Harden lasting the whole year in Houston.

Man, do I love your trade idea. Then we could trade DLO too and build around the guard combination of Simmons and Edwards.

And how long will Simmons be content here? I think the question answers itself. The only way to build a contender here is through the draft. This Wolves organization could have done just that if, after trading for Butler, they had drafted Murray instead of Dunn, and Collins instead of Patton. Or if they had traded Wiggins for Butler, it's been widely reported that the Wolves could have kept their own first round pick. What if they had done that and drafted Donovan Mitchell to pair with KAT. They could have used the Wiggins money to help keep Butler. Imagine a combo of KAT, Butler and Mitchell. Butler could have gotten the contract he wanted and Mitchell is his kind of player. As another scenario, what if they had drafted the Greek Freak instead of Bazz? And note that the Wolves picked Glen Robinson one slot ahead of Jokic in the 2014 second round. Of course, last year they traded up for Culver instead of staying put and drafting Herro with the option to trade Saric for some other asset. The list goes on.

Bottom line is that the Wolves can't expect to rebuild or retool by trading for a star in his prime and expect that star to stay here - unless that player is seriously flawed like DLO. And even then, the cost is high and it probably won't be enough. If the time comes when the Wolves have to trade KAT, they'll have to trade DLO too and load up on future first round picks. In other words, they'll need to amass valuable draft assets and then rely on the draft and undrafted free agents for a complete rebuild from the ground up, hopefully accompanied by the development of Edwards into the player he's capable of being. Assuming we have a really good front office, presumably under new leadership, maybe this franchise can finally get it right.

In the meantime, it's all in on KAT, DLO and Beasley. That's the trio Rosas wanted to build around with his system. That trio will succeed or the organization will have to blow it up, start again and rely on the draft. That's the reality for this cold-weather, low attendance, mid-market, midwestern franchise with a reputation for losing and dysfunction.

I think a Russell/Edwards/Simmons team long-term could be a title contender. Much more so than what we have now. I truly think Simmons is that good and Russell is the perfect #2 for a guy like Ben as someone who can play really well off the ball and also run the offense when you need a bucket. Edwards also is the kind of athlete that could thrive next to Ben in transition and those 2 attacking the basket could be a handful for teams to defend. People don't understand that Simmons is THE versatile guy that good teams are built on. He can be your small ball 5 or he can be your PG. Literally just make sure you have shooters and rebounders around them and I think that team has a legit chance at a title and that's what would keep Ben here. There's not just one way to build a contender. Even OKC didn't win a title with Westbrook/Harden/Durant so to put all your eggs in that basket as the only means to win a title is foolish. You win titles by acquiring elite talent and Ben is that talent. Ben can hang with all the best players in the league defensively and he likes to play with a high pace keeping them from getting to take breathers on the court unless they slow the game down in their half-court. He's stuck with Joel right now and their need to play half-court just to keep Joel on the court and not huffing and puffing on the bench has really held Ben back from just getting out there and running.

[kekgeek]

If he doesn't show up and play defense this year on a level we haven't seen I really don't care when the request to get out comes. He'd be doing us a favor at that point. His reputation nationally is not good enough where he's going to get to pick his landing spot so we'll be able to get a haul for him. I just wish the timing was better where Harden to Philly, Simmons to MN, Towns to Hou made sense but MN and Philly are trying to see if they can make what they have work one more year and I just don't see Harden lasting the whole year in Houston.

Man, do I love your trade idea. Then we could trade DLO too and build around the guard combination of Simmons and Edwards.

And how long will Simmons be content here? I think the question answers itself. The only way to build a contender here is through the draft. This Wolves organization could have done just that if, after trading for Butler, they had drafted Murray instead of Dunn, and Collins instead of Patton. Or if they had traded Wiggins for Butler, it's been widely reported that the Wolves could have kept their own first round pick. What if they had done that and drafted Donovan Mitchell to pair with KAT. They could have used the Wiggins money to help keep Butler. Imagine a combo of KAT, Butler and Mitchell. Butler could have gotten the contract he wanted and Mitchell is his kind of player. As another scenario, what if they had drafted the Greek Freak instead of Bazz? And note that the Wolves picked Glen Robinson one slot ahead of Jokic in the 2014 second round. Of course, last year they traded up for Culver instead of staying put and drafting Herro with the option to trade Saric for some other asset. The list goes on.

Bottom line is that the Wolves can't expect to rebuild or retool by trading for a star in his prime and expect that star to stay here - unless that player is seriously flawed like DLO. And even then, the cost is high and it probably won't be enough. If the time comes when the Wolves have to trade KAT, they'll have to trade DLO too and load up on future first round picks. In other words, they'll need to amass valuable draft assets and then rely on the draft and undrafted free agents for a complete rebuild from the ground up, hopefully accompanied by the development of Edwards into the player he's capable of being. Assuming we have a really good front office, presumably under new leadership, maybe this franchise can finally get it right.

In the meantime, it's all in on KAT, DLO and Beasley. That's the trio Rosas wanted to build around with his system. That trio will succeed or the organization will have to blow it up, start again and rely on the draft. That's the reality for this cold-weather, low attendance, mid-market, midwestern franchise with a reputation for losing and dysfunction.

I think you make fair points on the draft but I'm more in the boat on what Thibs did. When you feel like you have a All NBA caliber player (like Towns) I feel like you take every other asset and move all in for another "star". I feel like the times have changed and you have such a small window to compete. Look at Kat, he has been in the NBA 5 years, if you look at his draft class only 4 players drafted in the 1st round are with the team that drafted them. That is crazy!! 26 players have moved in a 5 year span. Only Kat, Booker, Turner and looney are so with there original team.

In Wiggins draft class only 4 players are still with there original team (in the 1st round).

13 players from the 2016 class still with their original team.


There is just so much player movement now I don't know if you can just wait and develop players and pray that everything turns out ok.

The Lakers gave up every asset to win the title for Davis. Heat gave up multiple picks to trade for Butler, iggy, dragic, etc...

The year before that only player drafted by the Raptors who played was Siakam and Powell, rest gave up assets to get Lowry, Gasol, Leonard, Ibaka.


Obviously good picks are sprinkled in on those teams but the days of drafting your core and developing them into a contender I think are done in the NBA what is sort of sad.

[Monster]

Or (and you guys are gonna hate this) in this league it might not be worth it to suffer by rooting for teams; you might have to pivot to rooting for players in order to enjoy the league because as it stands the NBA isn't built for this franchise to succeed (I'd even go so far as to say the league isn't interested in this team being good). Way better run teams than this one have not succeeded in winning a title.

There are NBA franchises like GS that were done no favors by the league and became a heck of a team because of smart drafting and some luck. There is still opportunities for any franchise to become a legit contender if they have the right factors including ownership in place. The talk of Glen selling has died down some...which unless Glen is asking for the moon in terms of price seems a little concerning for the future of the Wolves in MN.

[Hicks123 [enjin:6700838]]

I semi-agree with khans.

I think the question really is "when should Wolves look to move Towns".

There is a reality playing out that despite Towns offensive talent, his inability/unwillingness, to play defense is troubling in this new NBA age of basketball. If he can't improve defensively, he can't be our top guy....period.

Where I disagree with Khans is on value Towns could return. Let's say we explore trading Towns in 21/22 season. Towns would still be locked into very reasonable contract for that season, along with following 2 seasons. That is NOT typical when trading for a star on his level. Most often, these guys are coming up for immediate Max/supermax deals, which makes trading for them difficult, and only makes sense for an extremely small segment of teams looking to win immediately. Teams LOVE offense, and KAT is certainly unique as a player in this respect. Every team in the league would love to have him.

If the draft class strength is true the next year or two, EVERYONE needs to be on trading table, including Towns.

But as many have said before, we really just need KAT to become a serviceable defender. If he can be average to slightly above (which should be plausible given his stature and physical ability), he should be our primary building block. But after 5 seasons, it feels like we know what we are getting, unfortunately.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

[youtube] https://youtu.be/AWXFphPMbTY [/youtube]

I'm not sure how many of you have seen this video from January, but I thought it was Karl-Anthony Towns at his very best. This is the guy that's fun to root for. This is the star player with a personality. He was candid, thoughtful, and entertaining instead of rehearsed, dry, and predictable like we've gotten used to. This video was just overall good vibes.

There were a number of good tidbits in here and I don't want to spoil them by talking about my favorites. The video is just under 11-minutes long, but if you have some free time I suggest giving it a watch.

[Monster]

[youtube] https://youtu.be/AWXFphPMbTY [/youtube]

I'm not sure how many of you have seen this video from January, but I thought it was Karl-Anthony Towns at his very best. This is the guy that's fun to root for. This is the star player with a personality. He was candid, thoughtful, and entertaining instead of rehearsed, dry, and predictable like we've gotten used to. This video was just overall good vibes.

There were a number of good tidbits in here and I don't want to spoil them by talking about my favorites. The video is just under 11-minutes long, but if you have some free time I suggest giving it a watch.

Thanks for posting that was a fun video.

One thing did bother me was when he basically brushed off people who say they struggle in school saying just do your homework. If only it was that easy.

I'll probably go down the rabbit hole sometime and watch a few more of these videos.

[Lipoli390]

[youtube] https://youtu.be/AWXFphPMbTY [/youtube]

I'm not sure how many of you have seen this video from January, but I thought it was Karl-Anthony Towns at his very best. This is the guy that's fun to root for. This is the star player with a personality. He was candid, thoughtful, and entertaining instead of rehearsed, dry, and predictable like we've gotten used to. This video was just overall good vibes.

There were a number of good tidbits in here and I don't want to spoil them by talking about my favorites. The video is just under 11-minutes long, but if you have some free time I suggest giving it a watch.

Great video. Thanks for posting, Cam. I agree that it was nice to see KAT being KAT and not trying to be who he might think he's supposed to be. As you noted, the video is entertaining and it shows a guy who is fun to root for. Everyone on this message board should watch it. I'll try not to spoil anything, but here are a couple take-always for me.

1. I love his confidence. No false humility, but not bragging either. Just a high level of confidence in himself, which all successful players and successful people in any line of work tend to have.

2. He refers to his dream of playing with DLO and Booker. Well, half of his dream is now a reality in Minnesota. We can't underestimate how important that it to him, which helps explain why Rosas was so intent on bringing DLO here. Given what's happening in Phoenix, we all know that the Booker half of KAT's dream isn't realistic. KAT talked generally about sensing the energy emitted by others. That just reinforces the observation many of us have made that KAT is particularly sensitive to the people around him. Again, that underscores the value having DLO here, but I think it also underscores the value of adding Ricky to the roster.

[TheFuture]

If he doesn't show up and play defense this year on a level we haven't seen I really don't care when the request to get out comes. He'd be doing us a favor at that point. His reputation nationally is not good enough where he's going to get to pick his landing spot so we'll be able to get a haul for him. I just wish the timing was better where Harden to Philly, Simmons to MN, Towns to Hou made sense but MN and Philly are trying to see if they can make what they have work one more year and I just don't see Harden lasting the whole year in Houston.

Man, do I love your trade idea. Then we could trade DLO too and build around the guard combination of Simmons and Edwards.

And how long will Simmons be content here? I think the question answers itself. The only way to build a contender here is through the draft. This Wolves organization could have done just that if, after trading for Butler, they had drafted Murray instead of Dunn, and Collins instead of Patton. Or if they had traded Wiggins for Butler, it's been widely reported that the Wolves could have kept their own first round pick. What if they had done that and drafted Donovan Mitchell to pair with KAT. They could have used the Wiggins money to help keep Butler. Imagine a combo of KAT, Butler and Mitchell. Butler could have gotten the contract he wanted and Mitchell is his kind of player. As another scenario, what if they had drafted the Greek Freak instead of Bazz? And note that the Wolves picked Glen Robinson one slot ahead of Jokic in the 2014 second round. Of course, last year they traded up for Culver instead of staying put and drafting Herro with the option to trade Saric for some other asset. The list goes on.

Bottom line is that the Wolves can't expect to rebuild or retool by trading for a star in his prime and expect that star to stay here - unless that player is seriously flawed like DLO. And even then, the cost is high and it probably won't be enough. If the time comes when the Wolves have to trade KAT, they'll have to trade DLO too and load up on future first round picks. In other words, they'll need to amass valuable draft assets and then rely on the draft and undrafted free agents for a complete rebuild from the ground up, hopefully accompanied by the development of Edwards into the player he's capable of being. Assuming we have a really good front office, presumably under new leadership, maybe this franchise can finally get it right.

In the meantime, it's all in on KAT, DLO and Beasley. That's the trio Rosas wanted to build around with his system. That trio will succeed or the organization will have to blow it up, start again and rely on the draft. That's the reality for this cold-weather, low attendance, mid-market, midwestern franchise with a reputation for losing and dysfunction.

I think a Russell/Edwards/Simmons team long-term could be a title contender. Much more so than what we have now. I truly think Simmons is that good and Russell is the perfect #2 for a guy like Ben as someone who can play really well off the ball and also run the offense when you need a bucket. Edwards also is the kind of athlete that could thrive next to Ben in transition and those 2 attacking the basket could be a handful for teams to defend. People don't understand that Simmons is THE versatile guy that good teams are built on. He can be your small ball 5 or he can be your PG. Literally just make sure you have shooters and rebounders around them and I think that team has a legit chance at a title and that's what would keep Ben here. There's not just one way to build a contender. Even OKC didn't win a title with Westbrook/Harden/Durant so to put all your eggs in that basket as the only means to win a title is foolish. You win titles by acquiring elite talent and Ben is that talent. Ben can hang with all the best players in the league defensively and he likes to play with a high pace keeping them from getting to take breathers on the court unless they slow the game down in their half-court. He's stuck with Joel right now and their need to play half-court just to keep Joel on the court and not huffing and puffing on the bench has really held Ben back from just getting out there and running.

If you cannot/are not willing to shoot in today's NBA then you are not worth risking a franchise's development on. It all shows in the playoffs. No way I would move KAT for Simmons.

KAT does not play great defense, but his ability to be an instant bucket from anywhere on the court as a 5 is obscenely undervalued. It changes everything for his own team and game planning for opposing teams.

I would not consider training him until his last year.

[Lipoli390]

If he doesn't show up and play defense this year on a level we haven't seen I really don't care when the request to get out comes. He'd be doing us a favor at that point. His reputation nationally is not good enough where he's going to get to pick his landing spot so we'll be able to get a haul for him. I just wish the timing was better where Harden to Philly, Simmons to MN, Towns to Hou made sense but MN and Philly are trying to see if they can make what they have work one more year and I just don't see Harden lasting the whole year in Houston.

Man, do I love your trade idea. Then we could trade DLO too and build around the guard combination of Simmons and Edwards.

And how long will Simmons be content here? I think the question answers itself. The only way to build a contender here is through the draft. This Wolves organization could have done just that if, after trading for Butler, they had drafted Murray instead of Dunn, and Collins instead of Patton. Or if they had traded Wiggins for Butler, it's been widely reported that the Wolves could have kept their own first round pick. What if they had done that and drafted Donovan Mitchell to pair with KAT. They could have used the Wiggins money to help keep Butler. Imagine a combo of KAT, Butler and Mitchell. Butler could have gotten the contract he wanted and Mitchell is his kind of player. As another scenario, what if they had drafted the Greek Freak instead of Bazz? And note that the Wolves picked Glen Robinson one slot ahead of Jokic in the 2014 second round. Of course, last year they traded up for Culver instead of staying put and drafting Herro with the option to trade Saric for some other asset. The list goes on.

Bottom line is that the Wolves can't expect to rebuild or retool by trading for a star in his prime and expect that star to stay here - unless that player is seriously flawed like DLO. And even then, the cost is high and it probably won't be enough. If the time comes when the Wolves have to trade KAT, they'll have to trade DLO too and load up on future first round picks. In other words, they'll need to amass valuable draft assets and then rely on the draft and undrafted free agents for a complete rebuild from the ground up, hopefully accompanied by the development of Edwards into the player he's capable of being. Assuming we have a really good front office, presumably under new leadership, maybe this franchise can finally get it right.

In the meantime, it's all in on KAT, DLO and Beasley. That's the trio Rosas wanted to build around with his system. That trio will succeed or the organization will have to blow it up, start again and rely on the draft. That's the reality for this cold-weather, low attendance, mid-market, midwestern franchise with a reputation for losing and dysfunction.

I think a Russell/Edwards/Simmons team long-term could be a title contender. Much more so than what we have now. I truly think Simmons is that good and Russell is the perfect #2 for a guy like Ben as someone who can play really well off the ball and also run the offense when you need a bucket. Edwards also is the kind of athlete that could thrive next to Ben in transition and those 2 attacking the basket could be a handful for teams to defend. People don't understand that Simmons is THE versatile guy that good teams are built on. He can be your small ball 5 or he can be your PG. Literally just make sure you have shooters and rebounders around them and I think that team has a legit chance at a title and that's what would keep Ben here. There's not just one way to build a contender. Even OKC didn't win a title with Westbrook/Harden/Durant so to put all your eggs in that basket as the only means to win a title is foolish. You win titles by acquiring elite talent and Ben is that talent. Ben can hang with all the best players in the league defensively and he likes to play with a high pace keeping them from getting to take breathers on the court unless they slow the game down in their half-court. He's stuck with Joel right now and their need to play half-court just to keep Joel on the court and not huffing and puffing on the bench has really held Ben back from just getting out there and running.

If you cannot/are not willing to shoot in today's NBA then you are not worth risking a franchise's development on. It all shows in the playoffs. No way I would move KAT for Simmons.

KAT does not play great defense, but his ability to be an instant bucket from anywhere on the court as a 5 is obscenely undervalued. It changes everything for his own team and game planning for opposing teams.

I would not consider training him until his last year.

I agree, Future. Pairing KAT with Simmons makes a lot of sense and would substantially improve this team even if it meant trading DLO. But replacing KAT with Simmons is not a step forward. Russell doesn't dominate offensively or shoot nearly as well as KAT and his +/minus has been poor compared to KAT's. Edwards is totally unproven with lots of questions marks surrounding his game. In fact, if Edwards' NBA performance matches his college performance, our big three would consist of one poor shooter (Simmons), one high inefficient scorer (Edwards), one good but not great perimeter shooter (Russell), and two poor defenders (Russell and Edwards). Simmons would pick up some of the rebounding we'd lose thought KAT's departure, but not all of it. At best, we're just marking in place, but I think we'd actually take a step back.

If the Wolves decide to trade KAT in the next year (maybe next summer), then it will have to be for a bucket full of future largely unprotected draft picks who can potentially develop into something special along with Edwards and Culver. And if they decide to trade KAT, then they should also trade DLO. Unlike Wiggins, DLO should bring some decent value in return without giving up draft assets like we did in the Golden State deal.

Right now, we don't know if KAT if or when KAT might want out. He has 4 years left on his deal and I think it makes sense for the Wolves to keep him for two of those four years before they consider trading him. I say that in part because I think this next season is going to be bad one for the Wolves given the limited time they have to prepare and what I consider to be a relatively mediocre head coach. If I'm right, KAT will undoubtedly be frustrated. But having his friend DLO here might buy the Wolves an extra year before KAT demands a trade.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

If he doesn't show up and play defense this year on a level we haven't seen I really don't care when the request to get out comes. He'd be doing us a favor at that point. His reputation nationally is not good enough where he's going to get to pick his landing spot so we'll be able to get a haul for him. I just wish the timing was better where Harden to Philly, Simmons to MN, Towns to Hou made sense but MN and Philly are trying to see if they can make what they have work one more year and I just don't see Harden lasting the whole year in Houston.

Man, do I love your trade idea. Then we could trade DLO too and build around the guard combination of Simmons and Edwards.

And how long will Simmons be content here? I think the question answers itself. The only way to build a contender here is through the draft. This Wolves organization could have done just that if, after trading for Butler, they had drafted Murray instead of Dunn, and Collins instead of Patton. Or if they had traded Wiggins for Butler, it's been widely reported that the Wolves could have kept their own first round pick. What if they had done that and drafted Donovan Mitchell to pair with KAT. They could have used the Wiggins money to help keep Butler. Imagine a combo of KAT, Butler and Mitchell. Butler could have gotten the contract he wanted and Mitchell is his kind of player. As another scenario, what if they had drafted the Greek Freak instead of Bazz? And note that the Wolves picked Glen Robinson one slot ahead of Jokic in the 2014 second round. Of course, last year they traded up for Culver instead of staying put and drafting Herro with the option to trade Saric for some other asset. The list goes on.

Bottom line is that the Wolves can't expect to rebuild or retool by trading for a star in his prime and expect that star to stay here - unless that player is seriously flawed like DLO. And even then, the cost is high and it probably won't be enough. If the time comes when the Wolves have to trade KAT, they'll have to trade DLO too and load up on future first round picks. In other words, they'll need to amass valuable draft assets and then rely on the draft and undrafted free agents for a complete rebuild from the ground up, hopefully accompanied by the development of Edwards into the player he's capable of being. Assuming we have a really good front office, presumably under new leadership, maybe this franchise can finally get it right.

In the meantime, it's all in on KAT, DLO and Beasley. That's the trio Rosas wanted to build around with his system. That trio will succeed or the organization will have to blow it up, start again and rely on the draft. That's the reality for this cold-weather, low attendance, mid-market, midwestern franchise with a reputation for losing and dysfunction.

I think a Russell/Edwards/Simmons team long-term could be a title contender. Much more so than what we have now. I truly think Simmons is that good and Russell is the perfect #2 for a guy like Ben as someone who can play really well off the ball and also run the offense when you need a bucket. Edwards also is the kind of athlete that could thrive next to Ben in transition and those 2 attacking the basket could be a handful for teams to defend. People don't understand that Simmons is THE versatile guy that good teams are built on. He can be your small ball 5 or he can be your PG. Literally just make sure you have shooters and rebounders around them and I think that team has a legit chance at a title and that's what would keep Ben here. There's not just one way to build a contender. Even OKC didn't win a title with Westbrook/Harden/Durant so to put all your eggs in that basket as the only means to win a title is foolish. You win titles by acquiring elite talent and Ben is that talent. Ben can hang with all the best players in the league defensively and he likes to play with a high pace keeping them from getting to take breathers on the court unless they slow the game down in their half-court. He's stuck with Joel right now and their need to play half-court just to keep Joel on the court and not huffing and puffing on the bench has really held Ben back from just getting out there and running.

If you cannot/are not willing to shoot in today's NBA then you are not worth risking a franchise's development on. It all shows in the playoffs. No way I would move KAT for Simmons.

KAT does not play great defense, but his ability to be an instant bucket from anywhere on the court as a 5 is obscenely undervalued. It changes everything for his own team and game planning for opposing teams.

I would not consider training him until his last year.

His instant bucket ability clearly is not that important to winning because he's put up big time stats for years now and it's done nothing to help us win. Meanwhile the defense Ben plays is winning basketball. Same with how he pushes the pace and sets up his teammates for success. And the beauty of it is Russell is still here to be the offensive closer if Ben never starts shooting 3's. Jokic is not a good 3pt shooter as the anchor of their offense. You just need to be able to score the ball as the primary ball handler which Ben can still do without shooting 3's.