Minnesota Sports Forum

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Guys I appreciate the feedback on this, and again, I hope my comments look foolish in a few months. But what about the fact we've pretty much emptied our clip? I mean an argument can be made that in his short tenure, Rosas has done a disastrous job. Maybe we get lucky and Edwards saves the day but that seems like a stretch right now.

You guys that have been around here for a long time know I'm not a chronic pessimist. But I'm sorry, this year and this rebuild seems to lack a plan. I guess we hope Edwards is the savior. They better play him a lot to see what we have.

Quietly, I feel like Gersson Rosas might already be starting the rebuild around Anthony Edwards while seeing if he can get the team to be somewhat competitive in the short-term. If this core doesn't work, and there's reason to suggest that it won't, then the sell-off will commence and Karl-Anthony Towns as well as D'Angelo Russell will be dealt for assets that compliment Edwards as the new centerpiece of this franchise.

That's another reason why I was hoping that James Wiseman would be the pick at number one because I think he'd be an easier piece to build around, but Rosas doesn't think that way.

Maybe. I gotta see just how good Wiseman is offensively before I proclaim him to be a franchise player. It's not easy to build around bigs. You still need a solid wing, too.

I'd counter that it's even harder to build around inefficient volume scorers that don't play defense. At worst, Wiseman projects to be a good rebounder, above-average rim protector, and a big that could stretch the floor vertically in the half-court or transition. Every team in the league needs that kind of player to varying degrees. How many teams are dying to get their hands on inefficient wings that don't contribute defensively?

To be fair, Anthony Edwards could realize his potential and blossom into a two-way star, and he'd be a guy you could definitely build around, but he has a long ways to go. I'm hoping he gets there because if he doesn't, then this team will be set back another decade possibly and most of us will lose interest.

Camden wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Guys I appreciate the feedback on this, and again, I hope my comments look foolish in a few months. But what about the fact we've pretty much emptied our clip? I mean an argument can be made that in his short tenure, Rosas has done a disastrous job. Maybe we get lucky and Edwards saves the day but that seems like a stretch right now.

You guys that have been around here for a long time know I'm not a chronic pessimist. But I'm sorry, this year and this rebuild seems to lack a plan. I guess we hope Edwards is the savior. They better play him a lot to see what we have.

Quietly, I feel like Gersson Rosas might already be starting the rebuild around Anthony Edwards while seeing if he can get the team to be somewhat competitive in the short-term. If this core doesn't work, and there's reason to suggest that it won't, then the sell-off will commence and Karl-Anthony Towns as well as D'Angelo Russell will be dealt for assets that compliment Edwards as the new centerpiece of this franchise.

That's another reason why I was hoping that James Wiseman would be the pick at number one because I think he'd be an easier piece to build around, but Rosas doesn't think that way.

Maybe. I gotta see just how good Wiseman is offensively before I proclaim him to be a franchise player. It's not easy to build around bigs. You still need a solid wing, too.

I'd counter that it's even harder to build around inefficient volume scorers that don't play defense. At worst, Wiseman projects to be a good rebounder, above-average rim protector, and a big that could stretch the floor vertically in the half-court or transition. Every team in the league needs that kind of player to varying degrees. How many teams are dying to get their hands on inefficient wings that don't contribute defensively?

To be fair, Anthony Edwards could realize his potential and blossom into a two-way star, and he'd be a guy you could definitely build around, but he has a long ways to go. I'm hoping he gets there because if he doesn't, then this team will be set back another decade possibly and most of us will lose interest.

Well of course.

But it wouldn't be fair to assume Wiseman is automatically going to reach his ultimate potential (and then some) and then not give Edwards the benefit of the doubt to reach his potential. Right now, both guys have a lot to prove.

We'll see if Wiseman can stretch the floor and be a fulcrum on offense. And whether Edwards plays defense and can be efficient.

As I've repeated often... my top choice at #1 was... nobody. I wanted to trade down. And, I've seen the Wolves try to build around talented bigs for a decade without any team success, sans the one year they had a really good wing player, too. You need a very good to elite wing to compete in 2021... so if I had the choice between an elite big or elite wing... I'm going wing. (not necessarily Edwards, but I think you get my point)

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Guys I appreciate the feedback on this, and again, I hope my comments look foolish in a few months. But what about the fact we've pretty much emptied our clip? I mean an argument can be made that in his short tenure, Rosas has done a disastrous job. Maybe we get lucky and Edwards saves the day but that seems like a stretch right now.

You guys that have been around here for a long time know I'm not a chronic pessimist. But I'm sorry, this year and this rebuild seems to lack a plan. I guess we hope Edwards is the savior. They better play him a lot to see what we have.

Quietly, I feel like Gersson Rosas might already be starting the rebuild around Anthony Edwards while seeing if he can get the team to be somewhat competitive in the short-term. If this core doesn't work, and there's reason to suggest that it won't, then the sell-off will commence and Karl-Anthony Towns as well as D'Angelo Russell will be dealt for assets that compliment Edwards as the new centerpiece of this franchise.

That's another reason why I was hoping that James Wiseman would be the pick at number one because I think he'd be an easier piece to build around, but Rosas doesn't think that way.

Maybe. I gotta see just how good Wiseman is offensively before I proclaim him to be a franchise player. It's not easy to build around bigs. You still need a solid wing, too.

I'd counter that it's even harder to build around inefficient volume scorers that don't play defense. At worst, Wiseman projects to be a good rebounder, above-average rim protector, and a big that could stretch the floor vertically in the half-court or transition. Every team in the league needs that kind of player to varying degrees. How many teams are dying to get their hands on inefficient wings that don't contribute defensively?

To be fair, Anthony Edwards could realize his potential and blossom into a two-way star, and he'd be a guy you could definitely build around, but he has a long ways to go. I'm hoping he gets there because if he doesn't, then this team will be set back another decade possibly and most of us will lose interest.

Well of course.

But it wouldn't be fair to assume Wiseman is automatically going to reach his ultimate potential (and then some) and then not give Edwards the benefit of the doubt to reach his potential. Right now, both guys have a lot to prove.

We'll see if Wiseman can stretch the floor and be a fulcrum on offense. And whether Edwards plays defense and can be efficient.

As I've repeated often... my top choice at #1 was... nobody. I wanted to trade down. And, I've seen the Wolves try to build around talented bigs for a decade without any team success, sans the one year they had a really good wing player, too. You need a very good to elite wing to compete in 2021... so if I had the choice between an elite big or elite wing... I'm going wing. (not necessarily Edwards, but I think you get my point)

In my previous post I wasn't portraying James Wiseman reaching his "ultimate potential (and then some)." I was saying that even if Wiseman doesn't reach the threshold of 'franchise big' he's still going to be a pretty valuable player. There are guarantees in his game that will make him a productive and contributing player even if he doesn't max out his perceived ceiling. That was the point being made there.

I can't say the same about Anthony Edwards. If he doesn't fix or improve nearly every aspect of his game -- including his effort level -- then the Wolves will ultimately be left with a bench player that likely wouldn't be guaranteed consistent minutes. Teams just cannot afford to give a sizable amount of playing time to inefficient wings that don't defend. The Josh Okogies of the league will scrap out those minutes instead.

Camden wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Guys I appreciate the feedback on this, and again, I hope my comments look foolish in a few months. But what about the fact we've pretty much emptied our clip? I mean an argument can be made that in his short tenure, Rosas has done a disastrous job. Maybe we get lucky and Edwards saves the day but that seems like a stretch right now.

You guys that have been around here for a long time know I'm not a chronic pessimist. But I'm sorry, this year and this rebuild seems to lack a plan. I guess we hope Edwards is the savior. They better play him a lot to see what we have.

Quietly, I feel like Gersson Rosas might already be starting the rebuild around Anthony Edwards while seeing if he can get the team to be somewhat competitive in the short-term. If this core doesn't work, and there's reason to suggest that it won't, then the sell-off will commence and Karl-Anthony Towns as well as D'Angelo Russell will be dealt for assets that compliment Edwards as the new centerpiece of this franchise.

That's another reason why I was hoping that James Wiseman would be the pick at number one because I think he'd be an easier piece to build around, but Rosas doesn't think that way.

Maybe. I gotta see just how good Wiseman is offensively before I proclaim him to be a franchise player. It's not easy to build around bigs. You still need a solid wing, too.

I'd counter that it's even harder to build around inefficient volume scorers that don't play defense. At worst, Wiseman projects to be a good rebounder, above-average rim protector, and a big that could stretch the floor vertically in the half-court or transition. Every team in the league needs that kind of player to varying degrees. How many teams are dying to get their hands on inefficient wings that don't contribute defensively?

To be fair, Anthony Edwards could realize his potential and blossom into a two-way star, and he'd be a guy you could definitely build around, but he has a long ways to go. I'm hoping he gets there because if he doesn't, then this team will be set back another decade possibly and most of us will lose interest.

Well of course.

But it wouldn't be fair to assume Wiseman is automatically going to reach his ultimate potential (and then some) and then not give Edwards the benefit of the doubt to reach his potential. Right now, both guys have a lot to prove.

We'll see if Wiseman can stretch the floor and be a fulcrum on offense. And whether Edwards plays defense and can be efficient.

As I've repeated often... my top choice at #1 was... nobody. I wanted to trade down. And, I've seen the Wolves try to build around talented bigs for a decade without any team success, sans the one year they had a really good wing player, too. You need a very good to elite wing to compete in 2021... so if I had the choice between an elite big or elite wing... I'm going wing. (not necessarily Edwards, but I think you get my point)

In my previous post I wasn't portraying James Wiseman reaching his "ultimate potential (and then some)." I was saying that even if Wiseman doesn't reach the threshold of 'franchise big' he's still going to be a pretty valuable player. There are guarantees in his game that will make him a productive and contributing player even if he doesn't max out his perceived ceiling. That was the point being made there.

I can't say the same about Anthony Edwards. If he doesn't fix or improve nearly every aspect of his game -- including his effort level -- then the Wolves will ultimately be left with a bench player that likely wouldn't be guaranteed consistent minutes. Teams just cannot afford to give a sizable amount of playing time to inefficient wings that don't defend. The Josh Okogies of the league will scrap out those minutes instead.

There are a lot of positives for Wiseman, but in response to the bolded text above, I disagree. In 2000 that absolutely would have been the case. In 2010 that may have been the case. These days, solid centers who are not franchise players are the most easily replaceable guys in the league. You can get those guys for low contracts. Paying anything more for a guy like that is a waste of cap space and that can really hurt your team.

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:

Camden wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Guys I appreciate the feedback on this, and again, I hope my comments look foolish in a few months. But what about the fact we've pretty much emptied our clip? I mean an argument can be made that in his short tenure, Rosas has done a disastrous job. Maybe we get lucky and Edwards saves the day but that seems like a stretch right now.

You guys that have been around here for a long time know I'm not a chronic pessimist. But I'm sorry, this year and this rebuild seems to lack a plan. I guess we hope Edwards is the savior. They better play him a lot to see what we have.

Quietly, I feel like Gersson Rosas might already be starting the rebuild around Anthony Edwards while seeing if he can get the team to be somewhat competitive in the short-term. If this core doesn't work, and there's reason to suggest that it won't, then the sell-off will commence and Karl-Anthony Towns as well as D'Angelo Russell will be dealt for assets that compliment Edwards as the new centerpiece of this franchise.

That's another reason why I was hoping that James Wiseman would be the pick at number one because I think he'd be an easier piece to build around, but Rosas doesn't think that way.

Maybe. I gotta see just how good Wiseman is offensively before I proclaim him to be a franchise player. It's not easy to build around bigs. You still need a solid wing, too.

I'd counter that it's even harder to build around inefficient volume scorers that don't play defense. At worst, Wiseman projects to be a good rebounder, above-average rim protector, and a big that could stretch the floor vertically in the half-court or transition. Every team in the league needs that kind of player to varying degrees. How many teams are dying to get their hands on inefficient wings that don't contribute defensively?

To be fair, Anthony Edwards could realize his potential and blossom into a two-way star, and he'd be a guy you could definitely build around, but he has a long ways to go. I'm hoping he gets there because if he doesn't, then this team will be set back another decade possibly and most of us will lose interest.

Well of course.

But it wouldn't be fair to assume Wiseman is automatically going to reach his ultimate potential (and then some) and then not give Edwards the benefit of the doubt to reach his potential. Right now, both guys have a lot to prove.

We'll see if Wiseman can stretch the floor and be a fulcrum on offense. And whether Edwards plays defense and can be efficient.

As I've repeated often... my top choice at #1 was... nobody. I wanted to trade down. And, I've seen the Wolves try to build around talented bigs for a decade without any team success, sans the one year they had a really good wing player, too. You need a very good to elite wing to compete in 2021... so if I had the choice between an elite big or elite wing... I'm going wing. (not necessarily Edwards, but I think you get my point)

In my previous post I wasn't portraying James Wiseman reaching his "ultimate potential (and then some)." I was saying that even if Wiseman doesn't reach the threshold of 'franchise big' he's still going to be a pretty valuable player. There are guarantees in his game that will make him a productive and contributing player even if he doesn't max out his perceived ceiling. That was the point being made there.

I can't say the same about Anthony Edwards. If he doesn't fix or improve nearly every aspect of his game -- including his effort level -- then the Wolves will ultimately be left with a bench player that likely wouldn't be guaranteed consistent minutes. Teams just cannot afford to give a sizable amount of playing time to inefficient wings that don't defend. The Josh Okogies of the league will scrap out those minutes instead.

There are a lot of positives for Wiseman, but in response to the bolded text above, I disagree. In 2000 that absolutely would have been the case. In 2010 that may have been the case. These days, solid centers who are not franchise players are the most easily replaceable guys in the league. You can get those guys for low contracts. Paying anything more for a guy like that is a waste of cap space and that can really hurt your team.

There isn't a guarantee that Wiseman is an above average defender in the league. Much more likely than Edwards becoming even average? Sure but I've seen a lot of bigs throughout the years that were supposed to be good defenders...that simply never did that or were basically one of a bunch of guys that can be had for amount of money that's somewhat negligible. Obviously Wiseman is a higher level talent especially offensively but I'm not going to just be sure he will be a plus defender. For one thing his base is still pretty skinny.

It seems like many people here think the Wolves picked Edwards over Wiseman because of fit or their system Etc. Is it so ridiculous to think they may have simply seen him as the best prospect? They were not alone.

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:

Camden wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Guys I appreciate the feedback on this, and again, I hope my comments look foolish in a few months. But what about the fact we've pretty much emptied our clip? I mean an argument can be made that in his short tenure, Rosas has done a disastrous job. Maybe we get lucky and Edwards saves the day but that seems like a stretch right now.

You guys that have been around here for a long time know I'm not a chronic pessimist. But I'm sorry, this year and this rebuild seems to lack a plan. I guess we hope Edwards is the savior. They better play him a lot to see what we have.

Quietly, I feel like Gersson Rosas might already be starting the rebuild around Anthony Edwards while seeing if he can get the team to be somewhat competitive in the short-term. If this core doesn't work, and there's reason to suggest that it won't, then the sell-off will commence and Karl-Anthony Towns as well as D'Angelo Russell will be dealt for assets that compliment Edwards as the new centerpiece of this franchise.

That's another reason why I was hoping that James Wiseman would be the pick at number one because I think he'd be an easier piece to build around, but Rosas doesn't think that way.

Maybe. I gotta see just how good Wiseman is offensively before I proclaim him to be a franchise player. It's not easy to build around bigs. You still need a solid wing, too.

I'd counter that it's even harder to build around inefficient volume scorers that don't play defense. At worst, Wiseman projects to be a good rebounder, above-average rim protector, and a big that could stretch the floor vertically in the half-court or transition. Every team in the league needs that kind of player to varying degrees. How many teams are dying to get their hands on inefficient wings that don't contribute defensively?

To be fair, Anthony Edwards could realize his potential and blossom into a two-way star, and he'd be a guy you could definitely build around, but he has a long ways to go. I'm hoping he gets there because if he doesn't, then this team will be set back another decade possibly and most of us will lose interest.

Well of course.

But it wouldn't be fair to assume Wiseman is automatically going to reach his ultimate potential (and then some) and then not give Edwards the benefit of the doubt to reach his potential. Right now, both guys have a lot to prove.

We'll see if Wiseman can stretch the floor and be a fulcrum on offense. And whether Edwards plays defense and can be efficient.

As I've repeated often... my top choice at #1 was... nobody. I wanted to trade down. And, I've seen the Wolves try to build around talented bigs for a decade without any team success, sans the one year they had a really good wing player, too. You need a very good to elite wing to compete in 2021... so if I had the choice between an elite big or elite wing... I'm going wing. (not necessarily Edwards, but I think you get my point)

In my previous post I wasn't portraying James Wiseman reaching his "ultimate potential (and then some)." I was saying that even if Wiseman doesn't reach the threshold of 'franchise big' he's still going to be a pretty valuable player. There are guarantees in his game that will make him a productive and contributing player even if he doesn't max out his perceived ceiling. That was the point being made there.

I can't say the same about Anthony Edwards. If he doesn't fix or improve nearly every aspect of his game -- including his effort level -- then the Wolves will ultimately be left with a bench player that likely wouldn't be guaranteed consistent minutes. Teams just cannot afford to give a sizable amount of playing time to inefficient wings that don't defend. The Josh Okogies of the league will scrap out those minutes instead.

There are a lot of positives for Wiseman, but in response to the bolded text above, I disagree. In 2000 that absolutely would have been the case. In 2010 that may have been the case. These days, solid centers who are not franchise players are the most easily replaceable guys in the league. You can get those guys for low contracts. Paying anything more for a guy like that is a waste of cap space and that can really hurt your team.

If Wiseman is more of a rim runner than a dominant offensive player (which others worry about)... he'd need to be Rudy Gobert-esque to justify $20M+ on his extension. And counting on him to become the league's best interior defender is a pretty big ask and unlikely.

Cam... what's your take on Ayton vs. Wiseman as far as future franchise centers go?