Minnesota Sports Forum

longstrangetrip wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Long, You are indeed correct. The player with the best defensive rating on the team is Gorgui Dieng, followed by Nemanja Bjelica. Keep in mind they are also playing mostly against opposing bench players as opposed to opposing starters. That being said, Gorgui had the best defensive rating of our five starters last year too, so this isn't just a fluke.

Here is a look at Defensive Ratings for the key rotation guys through 5 games:

Bazz - 123.8
KAT - 119.5
Teague - 116.4
Gibson - 115.8
Wiggins - 114.7
Crawford - 112.3
Butler - 110.0
Jones - 107.9
Bjelica - 103.6
Dieng - 99.2

By the way, the only two legitimately good ratings are Bjelly and Dieng. Everyone else's sucks, including Jimmy Butler's.

Thanks Q...the difference between KAT/G and Teague/Tyus matches my eye test. Who would have thought Tyus would be the third best defender and best defensive PG on the team!

LST, again I would caution you on comparing a starter role to a backup role, as they aren't apples to apples. I'm not sure what Tyus's D-rating would look like if he were playing 33 minutes per night and Teague was his backup. But may be we'll find out if Teague keeps doing what he did in that video clip!

Q12543 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Long, You are indeed correct. The player with the best defensive rating on the team is Gorgui Dieng, followed by Nemanja Bjelica. Keep in mind they are also playing mostly against opposing bench players as opposed to opposing starters. That being said, Gorgui had the best defensive rating of our five starters last year too, so this isn't just a fluke.

Here is a look at Defensive Ratings for the key rotation guys through 5 games:

Bazz - 123.8
KAT - 119.5
Teague - 116.4
Gibson - 115.8
Wiggins - 114.7
Crawford - 112.3
Butler - 110.0
Jones - 107.9
Bjelica - 103.6
Dieng - 99.2

By the way, the only two legitimately good ratings are Bjelly and Dieng. Everyone else's sucks, including Jimmy Butler's.

Thanks Q...the difference between KAT/G and Teague/Tyus matches my eye test. Who would have thought Tyus would be the third best defender and best defensive PG on the team!

LST, again I would caution you on comparing a starter role to a backup role, as they aren't apples to apples. I'm not sure what Tyus's D-rating would look like if he were playing 33 minutes per night and Teague was his backup. But may be we'll find out if Teague keeps doing what he did in that video clip!

I'm gonna give it a few more games before I make a mostly ignored come to Jesus thread with my thoughts on each player... but so far...

Tyus Jones is actively finding ways to avoid shooting the basketball.

10 shots in 82 minutes. That's about 4 shots per 36 minutes. I'm pretty confident it's among the very lowest in the entire league.

Heck, even Andre Roberson and Bismack Biyombo are shooting MUCH more frequently. He simply has to be more aggressive. Being a PG and giving up the ball to a trailer big man still 30 feet from the hoop seems like he's more interested in passing the buck than making a play.

I think he's becoming a semi-crafty defender though. I just think he could be more than Kevin Ollie... if he's more aggressive.

Wow, yeah, Tyus needs to be more of a scoring threat. He showed some similar tendencies last year when his bench minutes went up. He's got to be a bit more aggressive. His defensive play has improved though (still not great due to his physical limitations, but good enough for a backup PG).

Q12543 wrote:Long, You are indeed correct. The player with the best defensive rating on the team is Gorgui Dieng, followed by Nemanja Bjelica. Keep in mind they are also playing mostly against opposing bench players as opposed to opposing starters. That being said, Gorgui had the best defensive rating of our five starters last year too, so this isn't just a fluke.

Here is a look at Defensive Ratings for the key rotation guys through 5 games:

Bazz - 123.8
KAT - 119.5
Teague - 116.4
Gibson - 115.8
Wiggins - 114.7
Crawford - 112.3
Butler - 110.0
Jones - 107.9
Bjelica - 103.6
Dieng - 99.2

By the way, the only two legitimately good ratings are Bjelly and Dieng. Everyone else's sucks, including Jimmy Butler's.

Yeah, see this is an illustration that it's not just a 1 or 2 player problem. We have higher expectations for our young studs, so they are going to get the most heat. But clearly this is a team problem so far. The question I have is why? Was Thibs just in a different situation in Chicago? Is our culture so damaged that no one can come in here and make a difference? Wish I knew what the answer was.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Long, You are indeed correct. The player with the best defensive rating on the team is Gorgui Dieng, followed by Nemanja Bjelica. Keep in mind they are also playing mostly against opposing bench players as opposed to opposing starters. That being said, Gorgui had the best defensive rating of our five starters last year too, so this isn't just a fluke.

Here is a look at Defensive Ratings for the key rotation guys through 5 games:

Bazz - 123.8
KAT - 119.5
Teague - 116.4
Gibson - 115.8
Wiggins - 114.7
Crawford - 112.3
Butler - 110.0
Jones - 107.9
Bjelica - 103.6
Dieng - 99.2

By the way, the only two legitimately good ratings are Bjelly and Dieng. Everyone else's sucks, including Jimmy Butler's.

Yeah, see this is an illustration that it's not just a 1 or 2 player problem. We have higher expectations for our young studs, so they are going to get the most heat. But clearly this is a team problem so far. The question I have is why? Was Thibs just in a different situation in Chicago? Is our culture so damaged that no one can come in here and make a difference? Wish I knew what the answer was.

1. The league has changed? Thibs fairly specific push the ball to one side defensive style is no longer effective. Can he adapt?
2. It takes a certain kind of player to thrive with Thibs? Think about the types of player to thrive under Thibs, including Butler and Garnett.
3. MANY young stars have personality clashes with coaches. The players always win. Thibs dual role, which is already out of favor, could become a problem.
4. Losing creates losers. The franchise is the worst in NBA history. And most of it it's been under the watchful eye of Glen Taylor.
5. Still early.
3.

As much as we all want to pile on (and I'm part of the mob), Abe's point #5 is begrudgingly legitimate. It is still really early. We need more time, but no one should be surprised if we're still sucking wind at barely .500 ball 20 or 30 games into this thing. That's better than last year, but it isn't what most folks expected of this team.

Q12543 wrote:As much as we all want to pile on (and I'm part of the mob), Abe's point #5 is begrudgingly legitimate. It is still really early. We need more time, but no one should be surprised if we're still sucking wind at barely .500 ball 20 or 30 games into this thing. That's better than last year, but it isn't what most folks expected of this team.

It's early as a team, not as individual players. Most of the gripes are less about the losses, but rather how pathetic the individual defensive performances are. It may take time for the players to gel as a unit, but the effort should be visible from game one. Unlike years gone by the players have the same coach and same system so the idea that they're still learning what's expected is bunk. They know but either aren't doing it, or cannot.

TheSP wrote:

Q12543 wrote:As much as we all want to pile on (and I'm part of the mob), Abe's point #5 is begrudgingly legitimate. It is still really early. We need more time, but no one should be surprised if we're still sucking wind at barely .500 ball 20 or 30 games into this thing. That's better than last year, but it isn't what most folks expected of this team.

It's early as a team, not as individual players. Most of the gripes are less about the losses, but rather how pathetic the individual defensive performances are. It may take time for the players to gel as a unit, but the effort should be visible from game one. Unlike years gone by the players have the same coach and same system so the idea that they're still learning what's expected is bunk. They know but either aren't doing it, or cannot.

:thumb:

Well said.

I can't help but think that Jimmy will provide a damning perspective after watching these two games. I'm hopeful that he is going to be shredding some teammates the next couple days, along with Thibs.

longstrangetrip wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Long, You are indeed correct. The player with the best defensive rating on the team is Gorgui Dieng, followed by Nemanja Bjelica. Keep in mind they are also playing mostly against opposing bench players as opposed to opposing starters. That being said, Gorgui had the best defensive rating of our five starters last year too, so this isn't just a fluke.

Here is a look at Defensive Ratings for the key rotation guys through 5 games:

Bazz - 123.8
KAT - 119.5
Teague - 116.4
Gibson - 115.8
Wiggins - 114.7
Crawford - 112.3
Butler - 110.0
Jones - 107.9
Bjelica - 103.6
Dieng - 99.2

By the way, the only two legitimately good ratings are Bjelly and Dieng. Everyone else's sucks, including Jimmy Butler's.

Thanks Q...the difference between KAT/G and Teague/Tyus matches my eye test. Who would have thought Tyus would be the third best defender and best defensive PG on the team!

https://twitter.com/NBA_Math/status/923543488381075457Should have posted this here first.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Long, You are indeed correct. The player with the best defensive rating on the team is Gorgui Dieng, followed by Nemanja Bjelica. Keep in mind they are also playing mostly against opposing bench players as opposed to opposing starters. That being said, Gorgui had the best defensive rating of our five starters last year too, so this isn't just a fluke.

Here is a look at Defensive Ratings for the key rotation guys through 5 games:

Bazz - 123.8
KAT - 119.5
Teague - 116.4
Gibson - 115.8
Wiggins - 114.7
Crawford - 112.3
Butler - 110.0
Jones - 107.9
Bjelica - 103.6
Dieng - 99.2

By the way, the only two legitimately good ratings are Bjelly and Dieng. Everyone else's sucks, including Jimmy Butler's.

Thanks Q...the difference between KAT/G and Teague/Tyus matches my eye test. Who would have thought Tyus would be the third best defender and best defensive PG on the team!

LST, again I would caution you on comparing a starter role to a backup role, as they aren't apples to apples. I'm not sure what Tyus's D-rating would look like if he were playing 33 minutes per night and Teague was his backup. But may be we'll find out if Teague keeps doing what he did in that video clip!

I'm gonna give it a few more games before I make a mostly ignored come to Jesus thread with my thoughts on each player... but so far...

Tyus Jones is actively finding ways to avoid shooting the basketball.

10 shots in 82 minutes. That's about 4 shots per 36 minutes. I'm pretty confident it's among the very lowest in the entire league.

Heck, even Andre Roberson and Bismack Biyombo are shooting MUCH more frequently. He simply has to be more aggressive. Being a PG and giving up the ball to a trailer big man still 30 feet from the hoop seems like he's more interested in passing the buck than making a play.

I think he's becoming a semi-crafty defender though. I just think he could be more than Kevin Ollie... if he's more aggressive.

I've noticed a big drop off in Tyus' aggressiveness this season, and I don't like it. A friend of mine who is a bigger Thibs detractor than I am suggests Thibs is telling Tyus to game manage and facilitate, and that Tyus is not to blame here. I say we don't know that, and that is a stretch. Whatever it is, Tyus is a good shooter and needs to look for his shot for the second unit to be successful.