60WinTim wrote:This seems immensely premature. After similar results in two preseason games last year, Ryan and the Wolves were 2 games over .500 after the first month of the season. I think monster is correct in needing to see what things look like after 15 or 20 games.
Correct. It's not like Ryan Saunders has coached 106 regular season games. We need to see more. He's been saving his competency for this season!
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ryan had one post-Thibs season playing for ping pong balls, and then one full season that included a Rosas makeover half way thru.
You are absolutely correct that without his connection to the Wolves, Ryan would not be head coach of the Wolves. And I am not even saying I think it was the right move. I just think it is premature to write him off based on the body of work thus far.
So he doesn't take any heat for the fact that he got none of the signings last offseason to work on the court so we overhauled over half the roster at the deadline to get a new batch of players to also not work under him for the rest of that season?
I don't know, khansy, there are a lot of things we can complain about, but complaining that Rosas was unable to makeover the team as he wanted in just one offseason is not a worthy complaint. And the fact that he was able to re-make it after just one season is pretty remarkable. Feel free to complain about what the makeover looks like, but you have no business complaining about the length of time Rosas took.
And the makeover doesn't fall on Ryan's shoulders -- that's on Rosas. And the 10-8 start to the season with consistent contributions from the new signees Layman and Napier, plus our new draftee, Culver, flies in the face of your complaint.
I'm sorry but the 10-8 start just doesn't mean as much as you are making it out to mean. That's fine for a quarter of the season. Nothing special. Teams get off to hot starts while others get off to slow starts and that's neither. The Blazers started out 5-12 last year and turned it around while we cratered to the point where they felt over half the roster needed to go rendering that start completely meaningless. Layman, Napier, Culver, Vonleh, KBD, Jordan Bell...those were all guys Rosas himself brought in and only 2 of them were kept on the team after the deadline. Those were his signings and picks. He doesn't get to blame the carry over on his predecessor for those guys. Those were his failings as a GM and those subsequently are also Ryan's failings as a coach for not getting to work here at all. It'd be one thing if we just got rid of the old guard to make the new team but we didn't. We got rid of a lot of the new guys he picked to bring in as well because they didn't work here which again some blame needs to fall on Ryan for not finding a way to make them work here.
Now we are coming into this season looking even more unbalanced as a roster than last year. How are we in year 2 and guys look like they don't know how to play in this system? I've seen significantly more complicated football schemes executed more successfully in year 1 than we look going into year 2 and we have a roster that doesn't make sense. It's on the GM to get the talent and it's on the coach to find a way to make the talent work together. Everyone likes to diminish what NBA coaches like they are just baby sitters on the sideline. Coaches matter. Expect more from your coach.
Coaches don't matter much. I could be the coach of the Lakers and they'd still be the favorites to win it all. Not that I am a good coach, I have zero experience and I'd suck. I'd just let LeBron takeover and call the plays. Easy.
I think coaching matters much more for young players or when teams are not tanking for a top pick. lol
Gersson Rosas and Ryan Saunders can talk about their vaunted "system" all they want to, but until this team shows any cohesiveness or legitimate structure on either side of the ball it's all empty platitudes. It's just lip service from guys that probably shouldn't be in either of their respective positions. You cannot point to anything besides an unsuccessful drop coverage defensive scheme that would indicate there's any structure in the way Minnesota plays basketball. And that falls specifically on the head coach who's paid to direct and lead the team as well as the staff.
It's not entirely about the 36-70 record Saunders has to this point. It's that there's no organization or cohesion in the style that they play and it's directly impacting the team for the worse. It looks like they've been playing pickup against NBA teams ever since the Golden Boy took over.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:Saunders doesn't have the chops to be an NBA head coach, but the real problem is Rosas. Ryan is just a puppet running the ridiculous scheme Rosas has mandated. I don't think it really makes much difference who the coach is under this regime. It's not going to work, and to me at least, it's been apparent for quite a while.
I agree that Rosas is the main problem and that Ryan is his puppet running the silly scheme Rosas has in his head. Actually, I"m not sure exactly what that scheme is and I don't think Rosas really knows either. Rosas is in over his head as much as Ryan.
I do think a high quality head coach could get a lot more out of this roster. But of course, Rosas would have to give up expecting alignment between the head coach and what Rosas apparently has in his head as the right style of play.
I can't get over Rosas going on and on about the fast, full court style he wants to play while he builds this team around two slower, methodical half-court players. Never mind that those two players are terrible defenders; their style of play and talents don't even align with the offensive scheme that Rosas apparently has in his mind.
Camden wrote:Gersson Rosas and Ryan Saunders can talk about their vaunted "system" all they want to, but until this team shows any cohesiveness or legitimate structure on either side of the ball it's all empty platitudes. It's just lip service from guys that probably shouldn't be in either of their respective positions. You cannot point to anything besides an unsuccessful drop coverage defensive scheme that would indicate there's any structure in the way Minnesota plays basketball. And that falls specifically on the head coach who's paid to direct and lead the team as well as the staff.
It's not entirely about the 36-70 record Saunders has to this point. It's that there's no organization or cohesion in the style that they play and it's directly impacting the team for the worse. It looks like they've been playing pickup against NBA teams ever since the Golden Boy took over.
I agree, Cam. There really is not system. As you said, it's just a collection of platitudes purporting to describe some general run-and-gun style of play that Rosas has in his head. Rosas and Ryan are both in way over their respective heads.
WolvesFan21 wrote:Coaches don't matter much. I could be the coach of the Lakers and they'd still be the favorites to win it all. Not that I am a good coach, I have zero experience and I'd suck. I'd just let LeBron takeover and call the plays. Easy.
I think coaching matters much more for young players or when teams are not tanking for a top pick. lol
The Warriors don't become the Warriors if they don't ditch Jackson for Kerr. Who knows where the Heat would be if Lebron could have successfully got Spoelstra fired after 2011. How was Milwaukee doing before Bud? How's Atlanta done since Bud left? Why was Blatt fired for Lue if Lebron's coach could be pulled off the street? Why was Walton fired and replaced with Vogel? And on and on. Coaches make a difference at the end of the day. You can't just put anybody on the bench even with the top players and be fine.
WolvesFan21 wrote:Coaches don't matter much. I could be the coach of the Lakers and they'd still be the favorites to win it all. Not that I am a good coach, I have zero experience and I'd suck. I'd just let LeBron takeover and call the plays. Easy.
I think coaching matters much more for young players or when teams are not tanking for a top pick. lol
The Warriors don't become the Warriors if they don't ditch Jackson for Kerr. Who knows where the Heat would be if Lebron could have successfully got Spoelstra fired after 2011. How was Milwaukee doing before Bud? How's Atlanta done since Bud left? Why was Blatt fired for Lue if Lebron's coach could be pulled off the street? Why was Walton fired and replaced with Vogel? And on and on. Coaches make a difference at the end of the day. You can't just put anybody on the bench even with the top players and be fine.
You'd still be "fine." After all, Blatt has a .675 winning percentage, made the NBA Finals in his only playoff run and was fired in the middle of the season despite a 30 - 11 record.
Coaches do matter. But the question is "how much?" Sometimes, it's just getting the players (e.g., star players) to buy in. I don't buy Ty Lue as a great coach compared to others. But he had the support of the team's superstar and things worked out. All of these guys are smart. They all know basketball. The difference is in the margins. When you get a guy who's a bit better at scheming... AND... a bit better at relating to NBA players and superstars, they can make enough of a difference to make teams better.
But not even Phil Jackson, Gregg Popovich or Red Auerbach was leading the 2015 Wolves anywhere near a playoff berth.
WolvesFan21 wrote:Coaches don't matter much. I could be the coach of the Lakers and they'd still be the favorites to win it all. Not that I am a good coach, I have zero experience and I'd suck. I'd just let LeBron takeover and call the plays. Easy.
I think coaching matters much more for young players or when teams are not tanking for a top pick. lol
The Warriors don't become the Warriors if they don't ditch Jackson for Kerr. Who knows where the Heat would be if Lebron could have successfully got Spoelstra fired after 2011. How was Milwaukee doing before Bud? How's Atlanta done since Bud left? Why was Blatt fired for Lue if Lebron's coach could be pulled off the street? Why was Walton fired and replaced with Vogel? And on and on. Coaches make a difference at the end of the day. You can't just put anybody on the bench even with the top players and be fine.
I think a lot of the firings especially related to LeBron is the coaches disagreeing or having power issues with him. You could place a monkey on the sidelines and let LeBron go to work. Players matter 99% when you already have elite players. But I do think, as I said coaching matters much more with young players or teams that may be struggling to co-exist. It's still 90% on the players to do the work. Coaches can only do so much.
