Minnesota Sports Forum

thedoper wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:Conley will be 32 years old when the season starts - nearly 10 years older than KAT. As a PG he has a lot of wear and tear on his body. He hasn't played 80 games or more in 7 seasons. In the last 5 seasons he's played 12, 56, 69, 70 and 70. He has two expensive years left on his contract, so swapping Wiggins for him won't open up room for free agent signings. In fact, he will take up about $5 million more salary space, which would make it even harder to sign a free agent without hitting the luxury tax. And when Conley's contract runs out in two years when he's 34 years old, then what? I'm a big Conley fan, but trading for him makes no sense. It would be the sort of dumb move we the Wolves have perfected over the years. It would be yet another misalignment.

It's pretty simple. The Wolves need to build around KAT with players similar in age and long on talent. The hard part, of course, is drafting, signing and/or trading for those players without having a top 3 pick, a lot of cap money or a lot of trade assets. But there are contenders who would be interested in a player like Covington. Saric has trade value too. And somewhere in this draft there is a future star or two outside the top 3 picks. It's up to Rosas to show his worth with a really smart move or two - drafting that future star with the 11th pick and/or trading for a young talent who some other team has lost patience with. Recent examples of such players include D'Angelo Russell and Buddy Hield. A familiar example from the distant past is Chauncey Billups. I'm not going to speculate on who that potential star might be. It's up to Rosas and his team of scouts, coaches and other execs in the Wolves organization to find those players.

I'm on record without hindsight saying at the time I would have drafted McCollum and after trading down I'm on record saying I would have taken Giannis. I'm on record wanting to draft Buddy Hield or Murray over Dunn. And I'm on record wanting to draft John Collins rather than Patton as part of the Butler deal. I would expect Rosas, who is supposedly an expert getting paid millions of dollars, to do better than a rube like me. Any number of us on this Board would have had the Wolves in a much better position than they're in if we had been the Wolves PBO over the past 3-7 years. I'm tired of this organization's mediocrity -- and mediocrity is a overly charitable term for describing this organization's player personnel decision-making. Trading Wiggins AND our first round pick would a cop-out -- another expression of mediocrity that could get us a couple good years if Conley stayed healthy and didn't decline the way Chris Paul has declined in his early 30sin the playoffs. But there'd be nothing sustainable beyond that time.

If you or Rosas can get KAT to make the playoffs without a Vet coming in good work. I think the key is selling KAT that we're serious to win immediately or he's gone just like every Wolves talent before him. I don't know if there's anyone here that wants it to work with Wiggins more than me. But staying the course means playoffs is an absolute must this year to sell Towns on the plan. If young talent means another year in the lottery, Towns wanes. He just deserves more. Trading Covington or Saric is just as ballsy as I see it, but those guys are such good compliments in my mind and I don't see pure basketball people wanting to get rid of players like that. Those are the types of guys you try and draft with your stars. If they can stay healthy they're good compliments to KAT. I honestly like your plan more. We'll see how it pans out but one more season of anything less than huge strides and KATs got one foot out the door.

KAT's entering the 1st year of his 5-year deal. He's only 23 years old and the undisputed face of the franchise, which is what he wanted to be when he signed that deal. There's no way he's going to force his way out after only one more season in the lottery, especially if he sees young talent with upside around him and likes his head coach. His contract and age gives the organization 2 - 3 seasons to get things right before he starts banging the the drum for a trade. This organization made a big mistake opting for Brandon instead of Billups and then tried to salvage the post-Brandon situation by acquiring Cassell and Sprewell. Not surprisingly, the situation wasn't sustainable. The organization needed to build around KG with talented players of similar vintage. But that's not what they did. What happened? KG was traded and the rest is history.

I like Covington, but he isn't close to all-star caliber, much less star caliber. And he'll be 29 years old this season with what appears to be knee issues. That just doesn't match up well with the 23-year old KAT. No matter how good KAT is, this team isn't going to be a contender or anything better than an 8th seed without pairing KAT with at least another all star caliber player. And that other elite player has to be at a point in his career where he can develop and grow with KAT and the other players. There is no shortcut. The Wolves organization needs to be smart and patient - although patience can't be unlimited. Part of being smart is aligning acquisitions with the core around whom the team is being built. That means making good draft picks. And at this point, I think it means trading Covington because he's a player who could actually bring value in return.

One more lottery season makes 4 of 5 seasons. I think the risks with KAT are greater than you're making them out to be. KAT signed his deal because that's what stars do early in their careers, not as a long term commitment to Minnesota. I don't think the KG situation was because the complimentary players weren't his age. I think it was because Taylor waited so long to go into the luxury tax then at the first sign of struggle (Cassells injury, Spree's comments) publicly said it was a mistake and McHale blew it up. Making deals to improve the team year by year isn't a sign of impatience. It's what good teams do. McHale's Wolves stopped making good deals after Spree and Cassell, which was too bad because Casell still had a good season in LA after McHale trades him for that sack of steaming shit Jaric.

khans2k5 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:Conley will be 32 years old when the season starts - nearly 10 years older than KAT. As a PG he has a lot of wear and tear on his body. He hasn't played 80 games or more in 7 seasons. In the last 5 seasons he's played 12, 56, 69, 70 and 70. He has two expensive years left on his contract, so swapping Wiggins for him won't open up room for free agent signings. In fact, he will take up about $5 million more salary space, which would make it even harder to sign a free agent without hitting the luxury tax. And when Conley's contract runs out in two years when he's 34 years old, then what? I'm a big Conley fan, but trading for him makes no sense. It would be the sort of dumb move we the Wolves have perfected over the years. It would be yet another misalignment.

It's pretty simple. The Wolves need to build around KAT with players similar in age and long on talent. The hard part, of course, is drafting, signing and/or trading for those players without having a top 3 pick, a lot of cap money or a lot of trade assets. But there are contenders who would be interested in a player like Covington. Saric has trade value too. And somewhere in this draft there is a future star or two outside the top 3 picks. It's up to Rosas to show his worth with a really smart move or two - drafting that future star with the 11th pick and/or trading for a young talent who some other team has lost patience with. Recent examples of such players include D'Angelo Russell and Buddy Hield. A familiar example from the distant past is Chauncey Billups. I'm not going to speculate on who that potential star might be. It's up to Rosas and his team of scouts, coaches and other execs in the Wolves organization to find those players.

I'm on record without hindsight saying at the time I would have drafted McCollum and after trading down I'm on record saying I would have taken Giannis. I'm on record wanting to draft Buddy Hield or Murray over Dunn. And I'm on record wanting to draft John Collins rather than Patton as part of the Butler deal. I would expect Rosas, who is supposedly an expert getting paid millions of dollars, to do better than a rube like me. Any number of us on this Board would have had the Wolves in a much better position than they're in if we had been the Wolves PBO over the past 3-7 years. I'm tired of this organization's mediocrity -- and mediocrity is a overly charitable term for describing this organization's player personnel decision-making. Trading Wiggins AND our first round pick would a cop-out -- another expression of mediocrity that could get us a couple good years if Conley stayed healthy and didn't decline the way Chris Paul has declined in his early 30sin the playoffs. But there'd be nothing sustainable beyond that time.

If you or Rosas can get KAT to make the playoffs without a Vet coming in good work. I think the key is selling KAT that we're serious to win immediately or he's gone just like every Wolves talent before him. I don't know if there's anyone here that wants it to work with Wiggins more than me. But staying the course means playoffs is an absolute must this year to sell Towns on the plan. If young talent means another year in the lottery, Towns wanes. He just deserves more. Trading Covington or Saric is just as ballsy as I see it, but those guys are such good compliments in my mind and I don't see pure basketball people wanting to get rid of players like that. Those are the types of guys you try and draft with your stars. If they can stay healthy they're good compliments to KAT. I honestly like your plan more. We'll see how it pans out but one more season of anything less than huge strides and KATs got one foot out the door.

KAT's entering the 1st year of his 5-year deal. He's only 23 years old and the undisputed face of the franchise, which is what he wanted to be when he signed that deal. There's no way he's going to force his way out after only one more season in the lottery, especially if he sees young talent with upside around him and likes his head coach. His contract and age gives the organization 2 - 3 seasons to get things right before he starts banging the the drum for a trade. This organization made a big mistake opting for Brandon instead of Billups and then tried to salvage the post-Brandon situation by acquiring Cassell and Sprewell. Not surprisingly, the situation wasn't sustainable. The organization needed to build around KG with talented players of similar vintage. But that's not what they did. What happened? KG was traded and the rest is history.

I like Covington, but he isn't close to all-star caliber, much less star caliber. And he'll be 29 years old this season with what appears to be knee issues. That just doesn't match up well with the 23-year old KAT. No matter how good KAT is, this team isn't going to be a contender or anything better than an 8th seed without pairing KAT with at least another all star caliber player. And that other elite player has to be at a point in his career where he can develop and grow with KAT and the other players. There is no shortcut. The Wolves organization needs to be smart and patient - although patience can't be unlimited. Part of being smart is aligning acquisitions with the core around whom the team is being built. That means making good draft picks. And at this point, I think it means trading Covington because he's a player who could actually bring value in return.

One more lottery season makes 4 of 5 seasons. I think the risks with KAT are greater than you're making them out to be. KAT signed his deal because that's what stars do early in their careers, not as a long term commitment to Minnesota. I don't think the KG situation was because the complimentary players weren't his age. I think it was because Taylor waited so long to go into the luxury tax then at the first sign of struggle (Cassells injury, Spree's comments) publicly said it was a mistake and McHale blew it up. Making deals to improve the team year by year isn't a sign of impatience. It's what good teams do. McHale's Wolves stopped making good deals after Spree and Cassell, which was too bad because Casell still had a good season in LA after McHale trades him for that sack of steaming shit Jaric.

KAT simply has no leverage at this part of his deal. It's literally just starting. AD couldn't force his way out because he had a whole year left on his deal. KAT has 5. Everyone likes to think these players can do whatever they want, but they just haven't been able to when there's more than a full year left on their deal. Their leverage comes from re-signing or leaving and teams can just wait it out when they have as much time to work with like we do with Towns.

lipoli390 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:Conley will be 32 years old when the season starts - nearly 10 years older than KAT. As a PG he has a lot of wear and tear on his body. He hasn't played 80 games or more in 7 seasons. In the last 5 seasons he's played 12, 56, 69, 70 and 70. He has two expensive years left on his contract, so swapping Wiggins for him won't open up room for free agent signings. In fact, he will take up about $5 million more salary space, which would make it even harder to sign a free agent without hitting the luxury tax. And when Conley's contract runs out in two years when he's 34 years old, then what? I'm a big Conley fan, but trading for him makes no sense. It would be the sort of dumb move we the Wolves have perfected over the years. It would be yet another misalignment.

It's pretty simple. The Wolves need to build around KAT with players similar in age and long on talent. The hard part, of course, is drafting, signing and/or trading for those players without having a top 3 pick, a lot of cap money or a lot of trade assets. But there are contenders who would be interested in a player like Covington. Saric has trade value too. And somewhere in this draft there is a future star or two outside the top 3 picks. It's up to Rosas to show his worth with a really smart move or two - drafting that future star with the 11th pick and/or trading for a young talent who some other team has lost patience with. Recent examples of such players include D'Angelo Russell and Buddy Hield. A familiar example from the distant past is Chauncey Billups. I'm not going to speculate on who that potential star might be. It's up to Rosas and his team of scouts, coaches and other execs in the Wolves organization to find those players.

I'm on record without hindsight saying at the time I would have drafted McCollum and after trading down I'm on record saying I would have taken Giannis. I'm on record wanting to draft Buddy Hield or Murray over Dunn. And I'm on record wanting to draft John Collins rather than Patton as part of the Butler deal. I would expect Rosas, who is supposedly an expert getting paid millions of dollars, to do better than a rube like me. Any number of us on this Board would have had the Wolves in a much better position than they're in if we had been the Wolves PBO over the past 3-7 years. I'm tired of this organization's mediocrity -- and mediocrity is a overly charitable term for describing this organization's player personnel decision-making. Trading Wiggins AND our first round pick would a cop-out -- another expression of mediocrity that could get us a couple good years if Conley stayed healthy and didn't decline the way Chris Paul has declined in his early 30sin the playoffs. But there'd be nothing sustainable beyond that time.

If you or Rosas can get KAT to make the playoffs without a Vet coming in good work. I think the key is selling KAT that we're serious to win immediately or he's gone just like every Wolves talent before him. I don't know if there's anyone here that wants it to work with Wiggins more than me. But staying the course means playoffs is an absolute must this year to sell Towns on the plan. If young talent means another year in the lottery, Towns wanes. He just deserves more. Trading Covington or Saric is just as ballsy as I see it, but those guys are such good compliments in my mind and I don't see pure basketball people wanting to get rid of players like that. Those are the types of guys you try and draft with your stars. If they can stay healthy they're good compliments to KAT. I honestly like your plan more. We'll see how it pans out but one more season of anything less than huge strides and KATs got one foot out the door.

KAT's entering the 1st year of his 5-year deal. He's only 23 years old and the undisputed face of the franchise, which is what he wanted to be when he signed that deal. There's no way he's going to force his way out after only one more season in the lottery, especially if he sees young talent with upside around him and likes his head coach. His contract and age gives the organization 2 - 3 seasons to get things right before he starts banging the the drum for a trade. This organization made a big mistake opting for Brandon instead of Billups and then tried to salvage the post-Brandon situation by acquiring Cassell and Sprewell. Not surprisingly, the situation wasn't sustainable. The organization needed to build around KG with talented players of similar vintage. But that's not what they did. What happened? KG was traded and the rest is history.

I like Covington, but he isn't close to all-star caliber, much less star caliber. And he'll be 29 years old this season with what appears to be knee issues. That just doesn't match up well with the 23-year old KAT. No matter how good KAT is, this team isn't going to be a contender or anything better than an 8th seed without pairing KAT with at least another all star caliber player. And that other elite player has to be at a point in his career where he can develop and grow with KAT and the other players. There is no shortcut. The Wolves organization needs to be smart and patient - although patience can't be unlimited. Part of being smart is aligning acquisitions with the core around whom the team is being built. That means making good draft picks. And at this point, I think it means trading Covington because he's a player who could actually bring value in return.

One more lottery season makes 4 of 5 seasons. I think the risks with KAT are greater than you're making them out to be. KAT signed his deal because that's what stars do early in their careers, not as a long term commitment to Minnesota. I don't think the KG situation was because the complimentary players weren't his age. I think it was because Taylor waited so long to go into the luxury tax then at the first sign of struggle (Cassells injury, Spree's comments) publicly said it was a mistake and McHale blew it up. Making deals to improve the team year by year isn't a sign of impatience. It's what good teams do. McHale's Wolves stopped making good deals after Spree and Cassell, which was too bad because Casell still had a good season in LA after McHale trades him for that sack of steaming shit Jaric.

KAT simply has no leverage at this part of his deal. It's literally just starting. AD couldn't force his way out because he had a whole year left on his deal. KAT has 5. Everyone likes to think these players can do whatever they want, but they just haven't been able to when there's more than a full year left on their deal. Their leverage comes from re-signing or leaving and teams can just wait it out when they have as much time to work with like we do with Towns.

Exactly, Kahns. The Wolves organization has time to be patient and focused on making smart moves intended to build a sustainable championship contender. The question is whether this organization can be counted on to make smart decisions. We will soon see.