Minnesota Sports Forum

As a bit of good news, here's an excerpt from Woj this morning:

"The Minnesota Timberwolves are planning to open a search for a new president of basketball operations, with owner Glen Taylor preferring to keep general manager Scott Layden and interim coach Ryan Saunders as part of a revised organizational structure, league sources told ESPN."

So it looks like the Wolves will actually look for a new PBO to place above Layden. That's a bit of a relief. Sadly, call me crazy, but I don't trust Taylor to make a good decision on the new PBO. Imagine that. But nevertheless, if Woj's report is accurate, this is good news, putting to rest my worst fear that Taylor would turn the reins over to Scott Layden to do to us what he did to the Knicks as the head guy there.

Some additional perspective on keeping Ryan Saunders as head coach, which should give us all some comfort:

First, the deal will likely be guaranteed for only two years and I suspect the amount per year will be very low compared to other NBA head coaches. That means he can be replaced relatively cost-effectively after his first season, which I would consider a full-season trial under our new PBO.

Second, Ryan has a good rapport with the team's players and the full support of the team's one star, which is critical for the success of any head coach in today's NBA.

Third, Ryan's track record as interim head coach hasn't been all that bad under the circumstances. Specifically, Ryan compiled a 13-18 record (before last night's obvious throw-away game) under the following challenging circumstances:

1. The team played througout Ryan's tenure without the team's 2nd best player and best defender, Robert Covington, who was the No. 1 small forward in ESPN's real-plus minus in 2017-18.

2. The team was without its starting and best point guard, Jeff Teague, for 13 games of those 31 games. The team was also without it's best scoring spark off the bench, Derrick Rose, and it's main backup PG, Tyus Jones for a significant portion of Ryan's interim tenure. Moreover, KAT missed games for the first time in his career under Ryan with a concussion suffered in an auto accident.

3. Ryan took over late in the season and it is extremely difficult to make significant changes to a team that has developed a style, habits, strategies and muscle memories over nearly and entire season, not to mention prior seasons and off-seasons under the previous head coach. In fact, attempting to make changes in mid-stream will often result in a step back as part of a longer-term process intended to take several steps forward.

4. Yet, the team improved it's offensive efficiency under Ryan from #15 under Thibodeau to #12 in spite of all the challenges Ryan faced. The team's defensive efficiency rating dropped from #17 under Thibodeau to #24 under Ryan, but that's obviously due to losing the team's run-away best defender, Covington.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not happy about Taylor's decision to keep Ryan without a search and I'm more troubled by the decision to keep Scott Layden. But I'm please to see that the Wolves will hire a new PBO and will engage in a search process for that decision. Moreover, keeping Ryan on a relatively cheap 2-year deal isn't all that bad under the circumstances. He's brought a breath of fresh air to the arena. Going to games since he took over it's a pleasure looking down at the bench and seeing the players engaged and excited to be there in contrast to the disengaged sullen faces under Thibodeau that conveyed the sense that the players just wanted to game to end. Ryan is young, communicative, positive and by all accounts has a good basketball mind. He might turn out to be an excellent head coach and retaining him could turn out to be one of Glen Taylor's smartest decisions ever. OK, that's a low bar, but let's not allow ourselves to get too down about all this. We're Wolves fans. We're seen worse. :)

Wouldn't many POBO candidates take themselves out of the running considering they won't be allowed to hire the people they think are best to move the team forward?

Nothing against Saunders or Layden... but Glen Taylor has a horrible track record making basketball-related decisions. At least there's hope that the new POBO is better at it.



[Note: Yes. I get the irony of Taylor being the one who hired the POBO... it's a never-ending loop of abject futility, basically.]

WolvesFan21 wrote:

thedoper wrote:Taylor is going the cheapest route?? Shocking. If he needs to save his pennies that bad he should sell and have an extra Billion so he can stare at his bank statements all day. What an asshole.

I think that is the most common on most of the wealthy. They always take the cheap route to make more money, that's how they got rich. By being greedy as possible and pinching pennies their whole lives. The story around old man Rockefeller and others is all to common. Until people get sick of their cheapness and they hire PR Firms to help market themselves as "giving". What a farce especially when most of these charities are fraudulent tax schemes.

What I don't understand is how many continue to hire buffoons like Taylor has. I'm not saying Ryan is one, but nearly all FO personnel have been utter failures for years and years.

Hmmm, seems like you are projecting a generalized stereotype onto Taylor rather than looking at his specific circumstances of how he became wealthy, how he has spent his money, what philanthropic causes he contributes to and what impact it's had, etc.

The issue with him isn't greed in my opinion; it's poor judgment as a professional sports owner.

Personally the fact that they aren't using a search firm probably is not a bad thing. When they used it last time it was likely because it was sort of the hope thing to do and remember the whole organization had been rocked with Flip's death and there was some other organizational change like Ethan Cason on been on the job for a few months. Remember it's been reported the search firm really encouraged the Thibs hire as well. Souhan has ripped the idea of a search firm plenty saying it's basically a waste of money and Jon K didn't really disagree with him.

I think if there is a reason to be somewhat optimistic is Jon K and Souhan both report that the people Glen has hired the last few years to be in charge of the business aspect of the Wolves are thought to be very good. They say Ethan Cason is good and he has a legit track record as a guy running the business end of sports organizations. I think Glen is obviously going to have a lot of input but I also guess he is more comfortable with people around him now than he was when Flip died he realized he had something too good to just go with the status quo...which also meant even fewer people he could lean on.

As far as Scott Layden sticking around as an assistant. I think that's probably a great role for him. He is a behind the scenes guy tireless worker and worked for the Jazz and Spurs organizations and his dad is highly respected. My guess is he is also a guy that if he knows the plan he sticks to the plan and going to support people. That's good to have as a guy that's an assistant. He is likely a good basket all guy and maybe even a solid manager. I highly doubt he is a visionary type. That's what this organization needs someone with vision and some of their own ability to carry that out. I honestly don't think Layden is going to stand in the way of that. If whoever we hires fails it won't be Scott Layden it will either be the Wolves failing across the board (we are familiar with that!) or their poor decisions or a horrendous amount of bad luck. Again let's see who we end up with.

I you want some hope...remember the circus that was the Bucks GM search? Amazingly it ended up working out and they ended up with a heck of a head coach what like a year later?

Q12543 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

thedoper wrote:Taylor is going the cheapest route?? Shocking. If he needs to save his pennies that bad he should sell and have an extra Billion so he can stare at his bank statements all day. What an asshole.

I think that is the most common on most of the wealthy. They always take the cheap route to make more money, that's how they got rich. By being greedy as possible and pinching pennies their whole lives. The story around old man Rockefeller and others is all to common. Until people get sick of their cheapness and they hire PR Firms to help market themselves as "giving". What a farce especially when most of these charities are fraudulent tax schemes.

What I don't understand is how many continue to hire buffoons like Taylor has. I'm not saying Ryan is one, but nearly all FO personnel have been utter failures for years and years.

Hmmm, seems like you are projecting a generalized stereotype onto Taylor rather than looking at his specific circumstances of how he became wealthy, how he has spent his money, what philanthropic causes he contributes to and what impact it's had, etc.

The issue with him isn't greed in my opinion; it's poor judgment as a professional sports owner.

It's true he spent decent amount on Thibs but it was also a two-fer. And yes I don't know him well enough beyond his ownership decision making. My vitriol was more aimed at the system we live in where Joe Blow plumber/electrician pays more taxes as a percentage than multi Billionaires who live in tax havens and pay nothing with their fraudulent charities who only rob Joe Blow from even more of his hard earned dollars. I guess kind of off topic a bit. lol

WolvesFan21 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

thedoper wrote:Taylor is going the cheapest route?? Shocking. If he needs to save his pennies that bad he should sell and have an extra Billion so he can stare at his bank statements all day. What an asshole.

I think that is the most common on most of the wealthy. They always take the cheap route to make more money, that's how they got rich. By being greedy as possible and pinching pennies their whole lives. The story around old man Rockefeller and others is all to common. Until people get sick of their cheapness and they hire PR Firms to help market themselves as "giving". What a farce especially when most of these charities are fraudulent tax schemes.

What I don't understand is how many continue to hire buffoons like Taylor has. I'm not saying Ryan is one, but nearly all FO personnel have been utter failures for years and years.

Hmmm, seems like you are projecting a generalized stereotype onto Taylor rather than looking at his specific circumstances of how he became wealthy, how he has spent his money, what philanthropic causes he contributes to and what impact it's had, etc.

The issue with him isn't greed in my opinion; it's poor judgment as a professional sports owner.

It's true he spent decent amount on Thibs but it was also a two-fer. And yes I don't know him well enough beyond his ownership decision making. My vitriol was more aimed at the system we live in where Joe Blow plumber/electrician pays more taxes as a percentage than multi Billionaires who live in tax havens and pay nothing with their fraudulent charities who only rob Joe Blow from even more of his hard earned dollars. I guess kind of off topic a bit. lol

If you ever need an excuse/reason to stop watching sports...well you just put forth an outline of why.

KG4Ever wrote:

Camden wrote:Good franchises -- with competent ownership -- would have searched for the best candidates for the GM job first. In order for a GM to really make an impact, they need to be given the freedom to bring in who they feel is most capable at certain positions. One of those positions is head coach. A quality GM would have included Saunders in the the pool of candidates to be the head coach, but in no way, shape, or form would have handed him the reigns. And no GM job in a quality franchise would be tied directly to keeping an unproven, undeserving interim head coach. That's just ridiculous.

Here's yet another example of Taylor doing everything ass-backwards without even attempting to find the best man or woman for the job. He needs to go before this franchise even has a chance.

What does "good franchises" and "competent ownership" have to do with this organization? I don't remember you complaining when we handed the full reigns to Thibs.

It was the common thing going. Flip, Pop, Bud, Doc and Thibs all where given full power, made some sense at the time. Also thibs was super successful with the Bulls and helped develop young players like Rose, Noah, Butler, Gibson. Thibs also had name value, allowed us to sign arguably 2 of our best free agents ever in Teauge and Gibson, got us meetings with Lowry and Millsapp and got us on the short list of an all nba player in Irving. In the end Thibs didn't work out but it is totally different signing thibs than retaining a super young head coach that the wolves got worse at record, defense, pace and 3pt attempts when he took over for thibs and a GM that only stop in the NBA was one of the worst of all time with the Knicks. Totally different situation.

kekgeek1 wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:

Camden wrote:Good franchises -- with competent ownership -- would have searched for the best candidates for the GM job first. In order for a GM to really make an impact, they need to be given the freedom to bring in who they feel is most capable at certain positions. One of those positions is head coach. A quality GM would have included Saunders in the the pool of candidates to be the head coach, but in no way, shape, or form would have handed him the reigns. And no GM job in a quality franchise would be tied directly to keeping an unproven, undeserving interim head coach. That's just ridiculous.

Here's yet another example of Taylor doing everything ass-backwards without even attempting to find the best man or woman for the job. He needs to go before this franchise even has a chance.

What does "good franchises" and "competent ownership" have to do with this organization? I don't remember you complaining when we handed the full reigns to Thibs.

It was the common thing going. Flip, Pop, Bud, Doc and Thibs all where given full power, made some sense at the time. Also thibs was super successful with the Bulls and helped develop young players like Rose, Noah, Butler, Gibson. Thibs also had name value, allowed us to sign arguably 2 of our best free agents ever in Teauge and Gibson, got us meetings with Lowry and Millsapp and got us on the short list of an all nba player in Irving. In the end Thibs didn't work out but it is totally different signing thibs than retaining a super young head coach that the wolves got worse at record, defense, pace and 3pt attempts when he took over for thibs and a GM that only stop in the NBA was one of the worst of all time with the Knicks. Totally different situation.

I guess it's possible to rationalize the Thibs hire at the time. I didn't like it and could see the potential for the disaster it became. But I guess in a debate you can make some sense of it. But you continue to try to denigrate Ryan relative to the job Thibs did. I'm going to ask you to take your own advice and realize they are totally different situations. Totally different. Ryan may or may not work out here long term. But let's give him at least one full year to put his stamp on the team. He deserves that.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Wouldn't many POBO candidates take themselves out of the running considering they won't be allowed to hire the people they think are best to move the team forward?

Nothing against Saunders or Layden... but Glen Taylor has a horrible track record making basketball-related decisions. At least there's hope that the new POBO is better at it.



[Note: Yes. I get the irony of Taylor being the one who hired the POBO... it's a never-ending loop of abject futility, basically.]

I honestly think very view if any candidates would take themselves out of the running just because they have to go with Ryan Saunders as their head coach for a year. POBO positions in the NBA are highly coveted and rarely available. Nearly every GM and Assistant GM in the NBA, along with every former POBO (Griffin and Hinkie for example) probably wake up every morning drooling at the thought of getting another NBA POBO job. I'm not even sure candidates would take themselves out of the running if Thibodeau were the head coach even though Thibodeau is widely known as a jerk to worth with.

In any event, the Strib article today indicated that the new POBO would have a say in deciding the fate of Ryan and Layden. I think a new POBO would likely want to keep Ryan for a season to see how how does, knowing that the players, including the team's star want Ryan to stay. In contrast, I think a new POBO want to replace Layden with his own trusted lieutenant. But I'm not so sure about that because a new POBO might want someone with him in the front office who knows the Wolves personnel well and knows his way around the organization.

I think far too much is being made about whether the team retains Saunders and/or Layden. The key is hiring the right POBO. I'm far more worried about Taylor's poor judgment and track record filling that position than I am about retaining Saunders or Layden for another year.

I'm not sure why there isn't a "back" button being utilized by the Wolves' decision-makers here. Saunders doesn't have to be the head coach. He has not earned the job as the interim coach nor did he deserve it in the first place. But he also doesn't have to be kicked out the door. Why is it not an option for him to be retained similarly to how he was when Thibodeau was brought on? From what I have read, he is a decent/good assistant coach that interacts with the players well and is very well-liked. He also seems to be more focused/keyed in on the analytical aspect of the game. Again, very worthwhile assistant coach qualities and none of this is a jab at Saunders. He's still a project as far as being a head coach goes. There is nothing wrong with that, but I think it's definitely fair to say that he could use more seasoning and incremental responsibilities -- rather than going from third or fourth on the pecking order to top dog because of his last name and ties to the organization.

He's just not ready or deserving, nor did he grab the job and run away with it. Why should he be penciled in as the guy without a proper search for the best candidate? Arguing against that logic is pure tomfoolery in my book.