Minnesota Sports Forum

thedoper wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

FNG wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:The Wolves block Juancho playing in the Olympics and his brother is not happy about it

Good move by the Wolves IMO. Gotta protect their investment, either as a trade chip or a 3-point PF threat off the bench. F#*% Willi (unless he's kidding...I think he might be).

I don't think it's a good move. If the medical professionals gave the green light, then there likely isn't an issue of further injury. This hurts relations with an important international basketball team. More importantly, it takes away an opportunity for Juancho to improve his game in actually high-level competitive basketball and potentially showcase his talent after a disappointing season. This isn't a huge deal, but I'll add it to the list of things that make me questions Gersson's judgment.

I agree Lip, the only way strong arming Spain makes sense on this would be that he has a deal in place. Otherwise its not worth the fight in comparison to the overall benefits.

The article below has more information on what went down. It does make me wonder if there might be a possible deal or this does reflect poorly on Rosas and/or the organization being on the same page.

Personally I was surprised that he was going to be able to play but supposedly all doctors said he was fine to play. Training camps are less than 2 months away honestly it makes sense to want to protect Juancho from playing. What I think ticked Gargabosa off was the Wolves medical people said it was fine then Rosas said no and said in his statement that was released it was because medical staff suggested that wasn't what he should do for proper recovery. I think both of those things could actually be true but even if it sorta was it was not handled well. I think of a couple days ago the Wolves said no let's play it safe they would have been like ok we kinda get it but no they found out last minute when everything had seemed fine.


https://www.eurohoops.net/en/olympic-games/1231988/garbajosa-timberwolves-president-decided-juancho-wont-play-in-olympics/

If Juancho wants to play and can play, let him play, because if he plays here, then Rosas had a horrible offseason.


He should take Ed Davis' slot on the team as worthless expiring contract.

Sundog60 wrote:I don't know... I think it might show Rosas isn't fooling around, that he's putting more chips into the middle of the table for this upcoming season. Yes, it might be good for morale to let Juancho play, but it may not make the most sense for the Wolves.

On the other hand, I'm not sure I have always much confidence in how Rosas plays his cards, so...

Keeping Juancho out of the Olympics seems like a chip with zero or even negative value. I guess it depends on exactly what the medical professionals concluded. If playing in the Olympics would pose a significant risk of further injury to the shoulder, then Rosas did the right thing. But if it's true that the medical professionals all gave Juancho the green light to play, then we know playing in the Olympics would not risk further injury to the shoulder. In that case, I don't see any value in keeping him out of the Olympics. To the contrary, I see value to the Wolves in letting him play inasmuch as it will give Juancho the chance to improve his game against the high level of competition he'd face in the Olympics, which would make him a better player for the Wolves. And if he plays well on the international stage, it would also allow him to showcase his talents and enhance his trade value. Give how poorly Juancho played last season and how many games he missed, I'd say that allowing Juancho to play in the Olympics should be something that Rosas welcomes and encourages.

As Doper wrote, this only makes sense if Rosas already has a deal in place involving Juancho, in which case the risk of any sort of injury from game competition has to be avoided. Perhaps Rosas has a deal in place. Or maybe he has a number of viable trade possibilities involving Juancho. If I had more confidence in Rosas, I'd assume that's the case. But Rosas hasn't don't anything to suggest he has that kind of savvy.

lipoli390 wrote:

Sundog60 wrote:I don't know... I think it might show Rosas isn't fooling around, that he's putting more chips into the middle of the table for this upcoming season. Yes, it might be good for morale to let Juancho play, but it may not make the most sense for the Wolves.

On the other hand, I'm not sure I have always much confidence in how Rosas plays his cards, so...

Keeping Juancho out of the Olympics seems like a chip with zero or even negative value. I guess it depends on exactly what the medical professionals concluded. If playing in the Olympics would pose a significant risk of further injury to the shoulder, then Rosas did the right thing. But if it's true that the medical professionals all gave Juancho the green light to play, then we know playing in the Olympics would not risk further injury to the shoulder. In that case, I don't see any value in keeping him out of the Olympics. To the contrary, I see value to the Wolves in letting him play inasmuch as it will give Juancho the chance to improve his game against the high level of competition he'd face in the Olympics, which would make him a better player for the Wolves. And if he plays well on the international stage, it would also allow him to showcase his talents and enhance his trade value. Give how poorly Juancho played last season and how many games he missed, I'd say that allowing Juancho to play in the Olympics should be something that Rosas welcomes and encourages.

As Doper wrote, this only makes sense if Rosas already has a deal in place involving Juancho, in which case the risk of any sort of injury from game competition has to be avoided. Perhaps Rosas has a deal in place. Or maybe he has a number of viable trade possibilities involving Juancho. If I had more confidence in Rosas, I'd assume that's the case. But Rosas hasn't don't anything to suggest he has that kind of savvy.

FWIW I'm not a doctor but I had a roommate in college that had shoulder dislocation issues and ended up having surgery. A local orthopedic surgeon (former Husker football player) has a spot on the local ESPN station and I've heard him talk about this joint and addressed dislocation of that joint at least once.

The simple fact is that once a shoulder is dislocated it's more likely to dislocate again and obviously sustain another injury again. The shoulder is a tricky joint. Many people have surgery to repair that joint and don't fully recover as intended.

Could Juancho be fine to play? Sure. Is he more likely to be injured playing in competitive games the next few weeks with that injury than rehabbing it? Yes. What are the percentages? Idk but he is more likely to re-injure it. From the video I posted he looks fine has his range of motion back etc. Could it be smart to not play? Possibly. FWIW if I was Juancho I would be playing. Can you you trust athletes to give you the full truth about their bodies? It's worth considering Juancho is pretty far from an iron man. He is either injury prone or unlucky...probably a some of both.

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Sundog60 wrote:I don't know... I think it might show Rosas isn't fooling around, that he's putting more chips into the middle of the table for this upcoming season. Yes, it might be good for morale to let Juancho play, but it may not make the most sense for the Wolves.

On the other hand, I'm not sure I have always much confidence in how Rosas plays his cards, so...

Keeping Juancho out of the Olympics seems like a chip with zero or even negative value. I guess it depends on exactly what the medical professionals concluded. If playing in the Olympics would pose a significant risk of further injury to the shoulder, then Rosas did the right thing. But if it's true that the medical professionals all gave Juancho the green light to play, then we know playing in the Olympics would not risk further injury to the shoulder. In that case, I don't see any value in keeping him out of the Olympics. To the contrary, I see value to the Wolves in letting him play inasmuch as it will give Juancho the chance to improve his game against the high level of competition he'd face in the Olympics, which would make him a better player for the Wolves. And if he plays well on the international stage, it would also allow him to showcase his talents and enhance his trade value. Give how poorly Juancho played last season and how many games he missed, I'd say that allowing Juancho to play in the Olympics should be something that Rosas welcomes and encourages.

As Doper wrote, this only makes sense if Rosas already has a deal in place involving Juancho, in which case the risk of any sort of injury from game competition has to be avoided. Perhaps Rosas has a deal in place. Or maybe he has a number of viable trade possibilities involving Juancho. If I had more confidence in Rosas, I'd assume that's the case. But Rosas hasn't don't anything to suggest he has that kind of savvy.

FWIW I'm not a doctor but I had a roommate in college that had shoulder dislocation issues and ended up having surgery. A local orthopedic surgeon (former Husker football player) has a spot on the local ESPN station and I've heard him talk about this joint and addressed dislocation of that joint at least once.

The simple fact is that once a shoulder is dislocated it's more likely to dislocate again and obviously sustain another injury again. The shoulder is a tricky joint. Many people have surgery to repair that joint and don't fully recover as intended.

Could Juancho be fine to play? Sure. Is he more likely to be injured playing in competitive games the next few weeks with that injury than rehabbing it? Yes. What are the percentages? Idk but he is more likely to re-injure it. From the video I posted he looks fine has his range of motion back etc. Could it be smart to not play? Possibly. FWIW if I was Juancho I would be playing. Can you you trust athletes to give you the full truth about their bodies? It's worth considering Juancho is pretty far from an iron man. He is either injury prone or unlucky...probably a some of both.

I have no idea what the medical prognosis or protocols are for Juancho's shoulder. So I have no opinion on whether he risks further injury by playing in the Olympics. And I'm certainly not relying on Juancho or any players or coaches. I'm just going by what I've read that the medical professionals gave the green light for him to play. Typically, they don't give the green light if playing would enhance the chances of further injury. If that's true, then I'd rely on them over Rosas since Gersson knows as much as about orthopedic medicine as any of us on this Board. But for all we know, Rosas is relying on medical professionals who were not among those who said it was OK for Juancho to play. We may never know.

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Sundog60 wrote:I don't know... I think it might show Rosas isn't fooling around, that he's putting more chips into the middle of the table for this upcoming season. Yes, it might be good for morale to let Juancho play, but it may not make the most sense for the Wolves.

On the other hand, I'm not sure I have always much confidence in how Rosas plays his cards, so...

Keeping Juancho out of the Olympics seems like a chip with zero or even negative value. I guess it depends on exactly what the medical professionals concluded. If playing in the Olympics would pose a significant risk of further injury to the shoulder, then Rosas did the right thing. But if it's true that the medical professionals all gave Juancho the green light to play, then we know playing in the Olympics would not risk further injury to the shoulder. In that case, I don't see any value in keeping him out of the Olympics. To the contrary, I see value to the Wolves in letting him play inasmuch as it will give Juancho the chance to improve his game against the high level of competition he'd face in the Olympics, which would make him a better player for the Wolves. And if he plays well on the international stage, it would also allow him to showcase his talents and enhance his trade value. Give how poorly Juancho played last season and how many games he missed, I'd say that allowing Juancho to play in the Olympics should be something that Rosas welcomes and encourages.

As Doper wrote, this only makes sense if Rosas already has a deal in place involving Juancho, in which case the risk of any sort of injury from game competition has to be avoided. Perhaps Rosas has a deal in place. Or maybe he has a number of viable trade possibilities involving Juancho. If I had more confidence in Rosas, I'd assume that's the case. But Rosas hasn't don't anything to suggest he has that kind of savvy.

FWIW I'm not a doctor but I had a roommate in college that had shoulder dislocation issues and ended up having surgery. A local orthopedic surgeon (former Husker football player) has a spot on the local ESPN station and I've heard him talk about this joint and addressed dislocation of that joint at least once.

The simple fact is that once a shoulder is dislocated it's more likely to dislocate again and obviously sustain another injury again. The shoulder is a tricky joint. Many people have surgery to repair that joint and don't fully recover as intended.

Could Juancho be fine to play? Sure. Is he more likely to be injured playing in competitive games the next few weeks with that injury than rehabbing it? Yes. What are the percentages? Idk but he is more likely to re-injure it. From the video I posted he looks fine has his range of motion back etc. Could it be smart to not play? Possibly. FWIW if I was Juancho I would be playing. Can you you trust athletes to give you the full truth about their bodies? It's worth considering Juancho is pretty far from an iron man. He is either injury prone or unlucky...probably a some of both.

I have no idea what the medical prognosis or protocols are for Juancho's shoulder. So I have no opinion on whether he risks further injury by playing in the Olympics. And I'm certainly not relying on Juancho or any players or coaches. I'm just going by what I've read that the medical professionals gave the green light for him to play. Typically, they don't give the green light if playing would enhance the chances of further injury. If that's true, then I'd rely on them over Rosas since Gersson knows as much as about orthopedic medicine as any of us on this Board. But for all we know, Rosas is relying on medical professionals who were not among those who said it was OK for Juancho to play. We may never know.

Agreed we may never know. All I am saying is that I could see why the Wolves ultimately are not wanting him to play. I think we can all agree that if what was reported about how it went down (we may never know that for sure either) then as I said Rosas and the organization had a gaff in communicating what they wanted. I don't think Willy Hernagomez will be joining the Wolves as a low cost FA which is really soul crushing for me.*








*I'm just kidding.

Also while I do think this could strain the relationship with the Spanish team etc I would guess it gets smoothed over. Still that's an organization and people you want to have on your side. Relationships are important in that business especially in the international scene.

Ultimately, how Rosas handled the Juancho Olympic situation isn't going to make or break the Wolves franchise. But once again, Rosas comes off as a mid-level bureaucrat who ended up in a top executive position he's not equipped to handle. We're all familiar with Gersson's parade of head scratchers. Trading up for a player he didn't know for sure he could get in the 2019 draft then drafting Culver. Hiring Ryan Saunders (the video guy) as head coach. Pursuing a poor defensive PG to pair with a poor defensive center as the core of a poor defensive team and then overpaying for him. Paying Juancho $7M per year for two guaranteed years. Failing to balance the roster with some size. Hard to give Rosas the benefit of the doubt in this latest episode with Juancho.

Thankfully, Rosas or someone in the organization has a pretty good eye for young talent coming out of college. As a result, we have Naz Reid, Edwards and McDaniels. It's not like our front office is entirely clueless. But it's hard not to wonder about Gersson's overall executive judgment.

lipoli390 wrote:Ultimately, how Rosas handled the Juancho Olympic situation isn't going to make or break the Wolves franchise. But once again, Rosas comes off as a mid-level bureaucrat who ended up in a top executive position he's not equipped to handle. We're all familiar with Gersson's parade of head scratchers. Trading up for a player he didn't know for sure he could get in the 2019 draft then drafting Culver. Hiring Ryan Saunders (the video guy) as head coach. Pursuing a poor defensive PG to pair with a poor defensive center as the core of a poor defensive team and then overpaying for him. Paying Juancho $7M per year for two guaranteed years. Failing to balance the roster with some size. Hard to give Rosas the benefit of the doubt in this latest episode with Juancho.

Thankfully, Rosas or someone in the organization has a pretty good eye for young talent coming out of college. As a result, we have Naz Reid, Edwards and McDaniels. It's not like our front office is entirely clueless. But it's hard not to wonder about Gersson's overall executive judgment.

Saunders wasn't just a video guy but regardless the decision does look like a mistake. Rosas made another move adding Finch and there is a positive vibe about that decision now but the jury is out on whether or not is was a good move. If Rosas went out of his way to get Finch instead of doing a legit coaching search and Finch is not a good coach...that's not gonna be a good look. Let's hope he is right about Finch.

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:Ultimately, how Rosas handled the Juancho Olympic situation isn't going to make or break the Wolves franchise. But once again, Rosas comes off as a mid-level bureaucrat who ended up in a top executive position he's not equipped to handle. We're all familiar with Gersson's parade of head scratchers. Trading up for a player he didn't know for sure he could get in the 2019 draft then drafting Culver. Hiring Ryan Saunders (the video guy) as head coach. Pursuing a poor defensive PG to pair with a poor defensive center as the core of a poor defensive team and then overpaying for him. Paying Juancho $7M per year for two guaranteed years. Failing to balance the roster with some size. Hard to give Rosas the benefit of the doubt in this latest episode with Juancho.

Thankfully, Rosas or someone in the organization has a pretty good eye for young talent coming out of college. As a result, we have Naz Reid, Edwards and McDaniels. It's not like our front office is entirely clueless. But it's hard not to wonder about Gersson's overall executive judgment.

Saunders wasn't just a video guy but regardless the decision does look like a mistake. Rosas made another move adding Finch and there is a positive vibe about that decision now but the jury is out on whether or not is was a good move. If Rosas went out of his way to get Finch instead of doing a legit coaching search and Finch is not a good coach...that's not gonna be a good look. Let's hope he is right about Finch.

I know Ryan wasn't just a video guy. :) But that's what he seems like. In any event, he was pretty far down in the pecking order of assistants under Thibs. You get the point. No other team in the League would have even considered Ryan for a head coaching position; yet Rosas made him the Wolves head coach. If that were his only egregious mistake I probably wouldn't have even mentioned it.

I'm really impressed with Finch so far. But you're right that the Finch selection will look especially bad if he turns out to be largely unimpressive over time given the lack of any legitimate search process.

This is a crucial summer for Rosas. To his credit, Rosas appears to have assembled enough talent around KAT (namely Ant, McDaniels, DLO, Beasley, Reid, Vanderbilt) to be in the mix for a playoff slot next season. However, I think he'll need to tweak the roster this summer to secure a playoff position. Culver aside, Gersson's front office has shown an ability to spot young talent coming out of college as evidenced by Ant, McDaniels, Reid, Nowell, JMac and Kalen Martin. Unfortunately, Rosas has shown no ability to make savvy trades or free-agent acquisitions. Yet, Rosas is on record saying that any improvement will have to come through trades or development of existing players. I'm hoping for development because I don't trust Rosas when it comes to making deals. My biggest fear is that Rosas, out of desperation, will make a terribly lopsided deal that will set this team back even further. The DLO deal was bad enough in my view and Rosas wasn't even desperate at the time. No telling what Rosas will do this summer if he's intent on making a big splash in a sea of far more savvy NBA executives -- sort of like a sea lion in an ocean of sharks. We all know what happens to the sea lions.

Whether a player is ready to play and not at serious risk to reinjure himself is not an exact science, and different people and doctors will evaluate the situation differently. Some (Juancho and the Spain team doctors) really want Juancho to play in the Olympics and may not be thinking clearly beyond this summer. Rosas on the other hand has a different time horizon. He has a $7 million investment in Juancho, and doesn't give a damn about Spain's chances in the Olympics...or offending the Spaniards for that matter. Neither do I. Like it or not, Juancho is the only true PF on our team who can hit a 3-pointer, and is likely to play significant minutes this season barring a significant acquisition. The guy suffered a Grade 4/5 acromioclavicular (never try to pronounce that after a cocktail) shoulder dislocation less than 3 weeks ago and was first reported to need 6 months to recover. Come on guys...if you have a $7 million investment in a guy in this condition, are you going to rely on some Spanish doctors who are invested in Juancho playing this summer? If Rosas had said "Well, the Spanish docs say he's okay, so he can go ahead and have fun in Japan", I think he would have been ripped here and guilty of POBO malpractice. While I still hope for roster moves that make Juancho less needed this season, I am happy Rosas exercised caution in this instance rather than worrying about offending the Spaniards. And heck, why do they need Juancho when Ricky has turned his game around and become a Chris Paul-like potent mid-range scorer ;-) ?

Edit: other than this issue, I mostly agree with Lip's assessment of the good and bad decisions by Rosas he lays out above