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Re: Vandy and Jmac are back!
Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:35 am
by Monster
lipoli390 wrote:FNG -- I have a thought on the following from your last post:
"3) Starting Beasley means putting either Ant or Jaden on the bench. I assume you would move Jaden to the bench if Beasley became a starter, and substituting Beasley for Jaden really hurts our defense against the other team's starters."
I agree with you that the Wolves would be better served by Beasley in a 6th-man role. But I don't think that starting Beasley necessarily puts Ant or Jaden on the bench. I could easily see a starting lineup with Beasley at SG, Edwards at SF and Jaden at PF. However, I'd prefer to start Vanderbilt with Jaden at the 3 and Edwards at the 2. That would ensure two good defenders and good overall size in our starting lineup. Edwards is still a wild card on the defensive end. So far he's been a bad defender, but he has the potential to be a great defender over time.
I will say that a starting lineup of DLO, Beasley, Edwards, Jaden and KAT would be an offensive powerhouse.
I think having Beasley scoring and especially his shooting ability with whoever is on the 2nd unit would be quite helpful. I think we have all seen the 2nd unit struggle over the years and Beasley isn't going to carry the team himself but having a guy that can get hot and actually hit some 3's would be nice for whoever is playing with him. Think about the shooting of this bench group:
Beverly
Beasley
Prince
Naz
Wait is this the Timberwolves?
Re: Vandy and Jmac are back!
Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:02 am
by Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
Solid deals, but not unexpected, right? I guess it's just good to get this stuff behind us before camp. It's been nice following the journey of Vando and JoMac from their G-league days to now likely being regular NBA rotation players (PBev and DLO will not stay healthy enough to keep JoMac on the bench all season).
Assuming no other moves are made, I'm pretty disappointed that we didn't find a way to add size and defense upfront. We are still going to get pushed around and bullied in the paint with this roster.
Re: Vandy and Jmac are back!
Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:11 am
by Lipoli390
Q12543 wrote:Solid deals, but not unexpected, right? I guess it's just good to get this stuff behind us before camp. It's been nice following the journey of Vando and JoMac from their G-league days to now likely being regular NBA rotation players (PBev and DLO will not stay healthy enough to keep JoMac on the bench all season).
Assuming no other moves are made, I'm pretty disappointed that we didn't find a way to add size and defense upfront. We are still going to get pushed around and bullied in the paint with this roster.
Hartenstein's still available. :). I can still see Rosas making a move by dealing Layman for salary room to sign Hartenstein. But yes, it is disappointing that we having added more size/toughness inside.
Re: Vandy and Jmac are back!
Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:26 pm
by Monster
lipoli390 wrote:Q12543 wrote:Solid deals, but not unexpected, right? I guess it's just good to get this stuff behind us before camp. It's been nice following the journey of Vando and JoMac from their G-league days to now likely being regular NBA rotation players (PBev and DLO will not stay healthy enough to keep JoMac on the bench all season).
Assuming no other moves are made, I'm pretty disappointed that we didn't find a way to add size and defense upfront. We are still going to get pushed around and bullied in the paint with this roster.
Hartenstein's still available. :). I can still see Rosas making a move by dealing Layman for salary room to sign Hartenstein. But yes, it is disappointing that we having added more size/toughness inside.
I started this Hartenstein hype train and now I'm worried it's out of control. What have I done?!?!? ;) JK I think Hartenstein would be a nice pickup as he has done some good things already in his pro career and it feels like he is ready to be a solid contributor for his next team. That's probably why he hasn't signed yet as he is looking for either the good opportunity or more than the vet min. I think he will get at least one of those but possibly both.
I think because Knight is on a 2-way it's a bit of an overlooked move. He has quite a bit of size and athleticism plus some intriguing skills. He is not as proven as some other options but that's why he is on a 2-way deal instead of an NBA one. He doesn't have big time size but that doesn't mean he can't have some legit positive effect out there. I think the Wolves have earned some benefit of the doubt on these types of moves and Knight COULD be the next worthwhile player they end up with from a 2-way signing. He might be no good either but I like him and with the lack of depth on the roster he is likely to get some legit run for the Wolves. It's worth noting he was a guy that played minutes on a team that went to the playoffs. It's not like he just got minutes on a crappy team.
Below is a lengthy article that I don't know if it was posted before. Obviously it's based on small samples but I think it's still a worthwhile read.
https://www.canishoopus.com/platform/amp/2021/8/9/22615899/lancelot-or-mordred-who-exactly-is-nathan-knight-timberwolves-free-agency-2021?utm_campaign=canishoopus&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&__twitter_impression=true
Re: Vandy and Jmac are back!
Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:56 pm
by FNG
lipoli390 wrote:FNG -- I have a thought on the following from your last post:
"3) Starting Beasley means putting either Ant or Jaden on the bench. I assume you would move Jaden to the bench if Beasley became a starter, and substituting Beasley for Jaden really hurts our defense against the other team's starters."
I agree with you that the Wolves would be better served by Beasley in a 6th-man role. But I don't think that starting Beasley necessarily puts Ant or Jaden on the bench. I could easily see a starting lineup with Beasley at SG, Edwards at SF and Jaden at PF. However, I'd prefer to start Vanderbilt with Jaden at the 3 and Edwards at the 2. That would ensure two good defenders and good overall size in our starting lineup. Edwards is still a wild card on the defensive end. So far he's been a bad defender, but he has the potential to be a great defender over time.
I will say that a starting lineup of DLO, Beasley, Edwards, Jaden and KAT would be an offensive powerhouse.
I think having Beasley scoring and especially his shooting ability with whoever is on the 2nd unit would be quite helpful. I think we have all seen the 2nd unit struggle over the years and Beasley isn't going to carry the team himself but having a guy that can get hot and actually hit some 3's would be nice for whoever is playing with him. Think about the shooting of this bench group:
Beverly
Beasley
Prince
Naz
Wait is this the Timberwolves?
Yeah, I don't disagree with Lip that his lineup is a possibility if Beasley is the starter. But man that starting five would struggle on defense, and who the heck would score off the bench!
Re: Vandy and Jmac are back!
Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:04 pm
by FNG
Q12543 wrote:Solid deals, but not unexpected, right? I guess it's just good to get this stuff behind us before camp. It's been nice following the journey of Vando and JoMac from their G-league days to now likely being regular NBA rotation players (PBev and DLO will not stay healthy enough to keep JoMac on the bench all season).
Assuming no other moves are made, I'm pretty disappointed that we didn't find a way to add size and defense upfront. We are still going to get pushed around and bullied in the paint with this roster.
I agree with the sentiment on this board that it's nice to have Vando and JMac back. Vando has his limitations, but you can't question his effort and he thinks every rebound could be his. And JMac provides some PG depth behind 2 oft-injured PGs.
I also agree that Beverley and Prince are a slight improvement over Rubio, Culver and Prince...slight. And if we were a 50-win team, I would call it a marginally successful off-season. But we are a 23-win team, and a meh off-season like this one doesn't do it for me. Maybe we will have more health this year. But this roster is so defensively challenged, I see little hope of sniffing the playoffs even if we have perfect health.
Go all out for Simmons, or be comfortable with the low 30s win total Vegas is forecasting. Guys, the evidence is in: Vegas is much better at forecasting our win total than we are.
Re: Vandy and Jmac are back!
Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:06 pm
by Lipoli390
FNG wrote:Q12543 wrote:Solid deals, but not unexpected, right? I guess it's just good to get this stuff behind us before camp. It's been nice following the journey of Vando and JoMac from their G-league days to now likely being regular NBA rotation players (PBev and DLO will not stay healthy enough to keep JoMac on the bench all season).
Assuming no other moves are made, I'm pretty disappointed that we didn't find a way to add size and defense upfront. We are still going to get pushed around and bullied in the paint with this roster.
I agree with the sentiment on this board that it's nice to have Vando and JMac back. Vando has his limitations, but you can't question his effort and he thinks every rebound could be his. And JMac provides some PG depth behind 2 oft-injured PGs.
I also agree that Beverley and Prince are a slight improvement over Rubio, Culver and Prince...slight. And if we were a 50-win team, I would call it a marginally successful off-season. But we are a 23-win team, and a meh off-season like this one doesn't do it for me. Maybe we will have more health this year. But this roster is so defensively challenged, I see little hope of sniffing the playoffs even if we have perfect health.
Go all out for Simmons, or be comfortable with the low 30s win total Vegas is forecasting. Guys, the evidence is in: Vegas is much better at forecasting our win total than we are.
Where I differ with you, FNG, is in your focus on the Wolves 23 wins. I won't brush that number aside entire, but I don't think it comes close to accurately reflecting the potential of this Wolves team for the following reasons:
1. First, the Wolves were riddled with injuries and off-court issues last season that I believe had a substantial negative impact on that win total. KAT missed 30% of the team's games last season from a wrist injury and Covid, had a seriously injured wrist in most of the games he played, and began the season on the heels of his mom's passing from Covid. DLO missed over 40% of the team's games because of knee surgery and was probably hobbled by his knee in most of the game he played before his surgery. Malik Beasley played in only about half of the team's games because of an ankle injury.
2. Second, the lack of any meaningful training camp before last season likely had a disproportionally negative impact on the Wolves and similar teams that were young team and that hadn't played together for any significant length of time.
3. The Wolves relied pretty heavily on two rookies - Edwards and McDaniels -- who should both be significantly better as 2nd-year players based solely on the improvement experienced by most of the better NBA players in their second seasons. The improvement should be particular substantial for Edwards and McDaniels given their lack of any training camp or summer league before last season and the fact that they were both among the youngest members of their draft class.
4. The team will have a full training camp and season under a quality head coach after last year's teams spent its first 31 games under a head coach who shouldn't have been an NBA head coach.
Those four factors, in my view, held the Wolves win total significantly below the number of wins achievable with the talent on the team's roster. There is precedent for teams doubling or nearly doubling their win total in one season without substantial off-season personnel upgrades. The 2019-20 Suns were a good example as were the 2012-13 Warriors. KAT was an iron man until two years ago. I fully expect him to return to his normal high level of durability. I also expect Beasley to remain healthy. DLO is another question. He's never been particularly durable, but I'm hoping he's turned the corner after his knee procedure last season. I expect the Wolves to finish a little north of .500 next session, which should put them squally in the hunt of a playoff slot.
Re: Vandy and Jmac are back!
Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 5:25 pm
by Monster
lipoli390 wrote:FNG wrote:Q12543 wrote:Solid deals, but not unexpected, right? I guess it's just good to get this stuff behind us before camp. It's been nice following the journey of Vando and JoMac from their G-league days to now likely being regular NBA rotation players (PBev and DLO will not stay healthy enough to keep JoMac on the bench all season).
Assuming no other moves are made, I'm pretty disappointed that we didn't find a way to add size and defense upfront. We are still going to get pushed around and bullied in the paint with this roster.
I agree with the sentiment on this board that it's nice to have Vando and JMac back. Vando has his limitations, but you can't question his effort and he thinks every rebound could be his. And JMac provides some PG depth behind 2 oft-injured PGs.
I also agree that Beverley and Prince are a slight improvement over Rubio, Culver and Prince...slight. And if we were a 50-win team, I would call it a marginally successful off-season. But we are a 23-win team, and a meh off-season like this one doesn't do it for me. Maybe we will have more health this year. But this roster is so defensively challenged, I see little hope of sniffing the playoffs even if we have perfect health.
Go all out for Simmons, or be comfortable with the low 30s win total Vegas is forecasting. Guys, the evidence is in: Vegas is much better at forecasting our win total than we are.
Where I differ with you, FNG, is in your focus on the Wolves 23 wins. I won't brush that number aside entire, but I don't think it comes close to accurately reflecting the potential of this Wolves team for the following reasons:
1. First, the Wolves were riddled with injuries and off-court issues last season that I believe had a substantial negative impact on that win total. KAT missed 30% of the team's games last season from a wrist injury and Covid, had a seriously injured wrist in most of the games he played, and began the season on the heels of his mom's passing from Covid. DLO missed over 40% of the team's games because of knee surgery and was probably hobbled by his knee in most of the game he played before his surgery. Malik Beasley played in only about half of the team's games because of an ankle injury.
2. Second, the lack of any meaningful training camp before last season likely had a disproportionally negative impact on the Wolves and similar teams that were young team and that hadn't played together for any significant length of time.
3. The Wolves relied pretty heavily on two rookies - Edwards and McDaniels -- who should both be significantly better as 2nd-year players based solely on the improvement experienced by most of the better NBA players in their second seasons. The improvement should be particular substantial for Edwards and McDaniels given their lack of any training camp or summer league before last season and the fact that they were both among the youngest members of their draft class.
4. The team will have a full training camp and season under a quality head coach after last year's teams spent its first 31 games under a head coach who shouldn't have been an NBA head coach.
Those four factors, in my view, held the Wolves win total significantly below the number of wins achievable with the talent on the team's roster. There is precedent for teams doubling or nearly doubling their win total in one season without substantial off-season personnel upgrades. The 2019-20 Suns were a good example as were the 2012-13 Warriors. KAT was an iron man until two years ago. I fully expect him to return to his normal high level of durability. I also expect Beasley to remain healthy. DLO is another question. He's never been particularly durable, but I'm hoping he's turned the corner after his knee procedure last season. I expect the Wolves to finish a little north of .500 next session, which should put them squally in the hunt of a playoff slot.
Knicks season before Thibs
21-45
23rd in D rating
Knicks with Thibs
41-31
3rd in D rating
This was with no significant changes to the roster. If Finch is legit like much of this board believes that's a pretty big deal.
Re: Vandy and Jmac are back!
Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 5:45 pm
by ALLDAYCHRIS [enjin:19712952]
Can anyone provide a link with Beasley being cool with coming of the bench?
Re: Vandy and Jmac are back!
Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 6:29 pm
by Monster
ALLDAYCHRIS wrote:Can anyone provide a link with Beasley being cool with coming of the bench?
Malik Beasley on if he feels he could fit into a 6th man role on the Timberwolves:
"I'm focused on winning. So whatever the case may be for winning."
https://twitter.com/danemoorenba/status/1394316262822621189?s=21