Minnesota Sports Forum

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

FNG wrote:Cunningham bows out of the tournament with an Anthony Edwards type finale...24 points, but too many forced shots and 30% shooting. Like Edwards, I still think Cade may end up being a better pro than college player in that he will not have the same defensive attention. But his two poor tournament games aren't going to help him in his quest to be the #1 pick. Mobley and Suggs now get center stage, and they may become the odds on favorites for #1 if they shine. My position though hasn't changed if we are lucky enough to get the first pick. The three stars are so even in my opinion (even after the tournament egg that Cade laid), I make my pick situationally. If we don't somehow acquire a true starting PF like Collins, I draft Mobley to put next to KAT. But if we do, it depends on who leaves in trades. If Ricky goes, I'm definitely looking at Suggs. But if DLO goes, my choice is Cunningham. Gotta win the lottery...I'm excited about all three.

I know he's not THE expert and just one guy, but I heard Kevin O'Connor last week say that Suggs can't really do anything to overtake Cunningham. I think he said it's doubtful for Mobley, but he'd have an outside chance.

Could be, Abe...Cade was certainly the odds on favorite coming into the tournament. But KOC's comments were pre-tournament I believe...his opinion might have changed after Cade's two poor games. NBA scouts love to talk about how a player steps up under the bright lights, and Cade's forced play and 26% shooting in the tournament won't go unnoticed. I guess it depends on how the other two guys do the rest of the way. Mobley was terrific in his first game, but USC likely won't get the run and visibility that Suggs will get. But Suggs had a quiet first game, choosing to game manage rather than shine. To me it doesn't matter because I see them as even, and my pick would depend on our roster. But despite two bad games, Cade is most likely still the first pick absent a jaw-dropping performance by Mobley or Suggs.

FNG wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

FNG wrote:Cunningham bows out of the tournament with an Anthony Edwards type finale...24 points, but too many forced shots and 30% shooting. Like Edwards, I still think Cade may end up being a better pro than college player in that he will not have the same defensive attention. But his two poor tournament games aren't going to help him in his quest to be the #1 pick. Mobley and Suggs now get center stage, and they may become the odds on favorites for #1 if they shine. My position though hasn't changed if we are lucky enough to get the first pick. The three stars are so even in my opinion (even after the tournament egg that Cade laid), I make my pick situationally. If we don't somehow acquire a true starting PF like Collins, I draft Mobley to put next to KAT. But if we do, it depends on who leaves in trades. If Ricky goes, I'm definitely looking at Suggs. But if DLO goes, my choice is Cunningham. Gotta win the lottery...I'm excited about all three.

I know he's not THE expert and just one guy, but I heard Kevin O'Connor last week say that Suggs can't really do anything to overtake Cunningham. I think he said it's doubtful for Mobley, but he'd have an outside chance.

Could be, Abe...Cade was certainly the odds on favorite coming into the tournament. But KOC's comments were pre-tournament I believe...his opinion might have changed after Cade's two poor games. NBA scouts love to talk about how a player steps up under the bright lights, and Cade's forced play and 26% shooting in the tournament won't go unnoticed. I guess it depends on how the other two guys do the rest of the way. Mobley was terrific in his first game, but USC likely won't get the run and visibility that Suggs will get. But Suggs had a quiet first game, choosing to game manage rather than shine. To me it doesn't matter because I see them as even, and my pick would depend on our roster. But despite two bad games, Cade is most likely still the first pick absent a jaw-dropping performance by Mobley or Suggs.

If an NBA front office is putting a lot of weight on tournament games in their evaluation of top prospects, they should be fired immediately. Guys like Suggs, Mobley, and Cunningham have been scouted for years and have a massive body of work to go off of. A couple good or bad games in the tourney should not be given a lot of importance.

I don't think the NCAA tourney matters all that much for the #1 pick... although I think it can help those later in the draft more.

Obviously, Anthony Davis did well in the tournament. And I believe Williamson had a nice run even if Duke lost before they were expected to lose. But other than those two...

- Towns shot 2 - 7 fg and had 9 points and 9 rebounds... over a TWO game stretch!
- Ayton had a subpar game losing by 21 to a #13 seed in rd 1.
- Wiggins finished in rd 2 with a 1 - 6 fg game where he finished with 4 points, 4 rebounds and 4 TOs.
- Kyrie was 5 - 12 fg combined in his first two tourney games. (after a long injury layoff)
- A. Bennett shot 4 - 11 fg as his team was upset by a #12 team.
- Fultz, Simmons and Edwards never even played in the tourney.



[Edit: Screw you, Q. You wrote it better than me. But enjoy the random stats anyway.]

AbeVigodaLive wrote:I don't think the NCAA tourney matters all that much for the #1 pick... although I think it can help those later in the draft more.

Obviously, Anthony Davis did well in the tournament. And I believe Williamson had a nice run even if Duke lost before they were expected to lose. But other than those two...

- Towns shot 2 - 7 fg and had 9 points and 9 rebounds... over a TWO game stretch!
- Ayton had a subpar game losing by 21 to a #13 seed in rd 1.
- Wiggins finished in rd 2 with a 1 - 6 fg game where he finished with 4 points, 4 rebounds and 4 TOs.
- Kyrie was 5 - 12 fg combined in his first two tourney games. (after a long injury layoff)
- A. Bennett shot 4 - 11 fg as his team was upset by a #12 team.
- Fultz, Simmons and Edwards never even played in the tourney.



[Edit: Screw you, Q. You wrote it better than me. But enjoy the random stats anyway.]

Good stuff. You should look at the other end of the spectrum too (tourney darlings that did not live up to where they were picked), like Randy Foye and Corey Brewer.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:I don't think the NCAA tourney matters all that much for the #1 pick... although I think it can help those later in the draft more.

Obviously, Anthony Davis did well in the tournament. And I believe Williamson had a nice run even if Duke lost before they were expected to lose. But other than those two...

- Towns shot 2 - 7 fg and had 9 points and 9 rebounds... over a TWO game stretch!
- Ayton had a subpar game losing by 21 to a #13 seed in rd 1.
- Wiggins finished in rd 2 with a 1 - 6 fg game where he finished with 4 points, 4 rebounds and 4 TOs.
- Kyrie was 5 - 12 fg combined in his first two tourney games. (after a long injury layoff)
- A. Bennett shot 4 - 11 fg as his team was upset by a #12 team.
- Fultz, Simmons and Edwards never even played in the tourney.



[Edit: Screw you, Q. You wrote it better than me. But enjoy the random stats anyway.]

Outstanding, nice work, Abe!

The other major component that can't be lost in analyzing the top few players is the overall "role" they play for their teams. Cunningham owns a lot more responsibility than the other two guys. This isn't a knock at all on Suggs and Mobley, but there is a reality that their play-to-play requirements are very different. For Ok St to do well, it was going to lie directly in Cunningham's hands. He has a ton of responsibility to initiate the offense, score, defend, etc.

Mobley, while key to success, simply isn't asked to do nearly as many things for that team. And that Gonzaga team was going to be extremely good with or without Suggs. Is he impactful? Yep. But he is not the "best" overall performer on that team game in and game out. They just have so many options.

Suggs and Mobley should naturally be more efficient given the requirements of their role. While Cunningham wasn't great in tourney, he has been dominant all year in LEADING that team. He needs to get major kudos for that as a freshman.

That's a good point, Hicks...I don't know that OkState is going anywhere this season without Cade, while Gonzaga would have still been very good without Suggs. I liken Cunningham in this year's draft to Edwards in last year's...both were the only true offensive threats on their teams and were constantly double teamed.

I'm not sure I agree on Mobley though, as I'm really not very impressed with the rest of that USC team. He reminds me a lot of Wiseman in size and athleticism, except that we only got to see Wiseman in a handful of games against inferior competition and Memphis was a talented team even without him. Mobley seems to be much more of a sure thing to me as we have a full season to watch him against real D1 competition, and he performed very well despite having defenses collapse around him all season.

We will get ample opportunity to evaluate Suggs as Gonzaga advances through the tournament and maybe he will step up and convince me he's worthy of the first pick, but right now it's a toss up for me between Cunningham and Mobley.

Another star in Luka Garza out of the tournament.

kekgeek1 wrote:Another star in Luka Garza out of the tournament.

Boy he really left it all out there. I think Oregon not playing Saturday really help them pull away in 2nd half.

Garza looks like a classic elite college player/poor NBA prospect. He is going to be a massive liability on defense at the next level, no? I mean, almost unplayable ala Jahlil Okafor.