Do the Inevitable Now, or Wait on Trading Kat

[Coolbreeze44]

It makes no sense to trade him now. This is a strange season with Covid and we haven't had KAT on the floor much because of Covid and his wrist injury. The time to consider dealing him is the end of next season. By that time, we should know enough about the trajectory of our young players and the pairing of DLO and KAT as our two pillars to determine whether it makes sense to continue moving forward with him. At that point, we starting a League-wide bidding frenzy. KAT will command a very big return.

Lip, that's the thing. We know, or at least I do, that KAT and DLO are not going to work as our two pillars. We're wasting time trying to build around those two. If you want to try and get what you can for DLO (not much), we could try to build around KAT. But again we don't have anything to build with for a couple years.

No argument from me on that point, Q. Like you, I'm already convinced that those two won't work as our two pillars. I said t that when we first traded for DLO, which was why I wasn't crazy about the deal. But I'm open to the possibility that I'm wrong and that the two can be a good enough tandem to get this team into the playoffs next season, possibly with a high enough seed to get out of the first round. In the meantime, I'd aggressively shop DLO and trade him if able to find a decent deal for him right now, But I think we'd be selling low and I don't think DLO's value goes down much from here. Once KAT is back, it should make DLO look better than he's looked so far this season, which might drive up his value.

If you get the chance, go back and look at the Wolves games against the Clippers and Miami last season after the trade-deadline deals. In the game against the Clippers, KAT played and JMac was our main PG. DLO was out that game. The ball moved beautifully and the Wolves won handily in one of their two best games of the season. JMac was terrific and a key to the win. You could see the potential of this team with KAT, but no DLO. In the Miami game, DLO played and KAT was out. JMac played substantial minutes that game, often alongside DLO, and was again pivotal to the Wolves win in what might have been an even more impressive win than the victory over the Clippers. That was an example of how good this team can be with DLO playing if he's used the right way, plays the right way and has another PG like JMac to facilitate better ball movement.

I'm not optimistic about this team going forward with KAT and DLO as the two pillars, but given the investment already made, this organization has to fully exhaust that possibility before moving KAT. If they can get a good deal for DLO yet this season or before next season, they should do it. But we should stick with KAT until the end of next season and see what happens with or without DLO. KAT will be just as valuable in the trade market then as he is now, if not more so.

Lip, I'm not Q. I'm going to have to disagree with you on this. You seem to be contradicting yourself. On the one hand you're convinced KAT and DLO can't be our two pillars, but on the other you leave open the possibility of getting to the Western Conference semifinals. Those two viewpoints don't mesh. You were right on the first point and should have left it at that.

If we wait until the end of next season to move KAT, here is the fallout:

1) I'd be very surprised if KAT doesn't force his way out before that

2) We all age 2 more years while the losses pile up

3) We age another 3 years while our assets from the KAT trade evolve into NBA players

My point is we are hosed right now and we don't have any options to remedy that. We would suck without KAT and we suck with him. DLO's value is lower than whale shit right now, and no one is going to be as dumb as Rosas was in dealing for him. His contract is going to be an albatross for years to come. Trading KAT is a really bad reality, but it's the only way for this franchise to change course.

[Wolvesfan21]

I thought the Wolves were 2-2 with KAT this season?

Let this season play out. We don't know how good or bad the team is with KAT with this squad. They could play .500 ball the rest of the way and then we need to reconsider. See who ends up in the lottery and has high picks that may deal. I guess it's fun to talk about but it makes zero sense to trade him now.

[Wolvesfan21]

The thing is did the Wolves get better by trading KG? Did they get better by trading Love?

You don't improve by trading your best player.

I can't think of a trade in history that propelled a team into contenders after they traded their best player. I'm sure it's happened at some point but the team that wins the trade gets the proven player.

[Jester1534]

The thing is did the Wolves get better by trading KG? Did they get better by trading Love?

You don't improve by trading your best player.

I can't think of a trade in history that propelled a team into contenders after they traded their best player. I'm sure it's happened at some point but the team that wins the trade gets the proven player.

GSW traded Ellis and you could argue he was there best player at the time. Curry was just breaking out. They became better and got Bogut then drafted Klay Thompson.

Also Howard was traded and they got Vuevich and Fournier. Are the magic better off idk but Howard became a former shell of himself 2 years later.

[Wolvesfan21]

The thing is did the Wolves get better by trading KG? Did they get better by trading Love?

You don't improve by trading your best player.

I can't think of a trade in history that propelled a team into contenders after they traded their best player. I'm sure it's happened at some point but the team that wins the trade gets the proven player.

GSW traded Ellis and you could argue he was there best player at the time. Curry was just breaking out. They became better and got Bogut then drafted Klay Thompson.

Also Howard was traded and they got Vuevich and Fournier. Are the magic better off idk but Howard became a former shell of himself 2 years later.

See, you really have to stretch to think of any and even those are debatable.

[Coolbreeze44]

The Milwaukee Bucks traded Kareem for Elmore Smith, Brian Winters, Junior Bridgeman, and Dave Meyers. A couple years later when they had multiple first round picks they were able to get Marques Johnson. All that team did over the next 8 years was average 54 wins per season. Wiinters, Bridgeman, and Johnson ended up having their jerseys hung in the rafters. That's how you parlay a great player into a bunch of pieces that result in a long term contender.

[thedoper]

Denver seemed to turn Carmelo into years of stable success based on great talent evaluation. OKC has managed to still be a respectable franchise, Toronto although struggling now has stayed competitive after having multiple stars leave. Some franchises stay embroiled in losing, us being chief amongst them. It is usually around bad ownership and poor talent evaluation. We have both. If we dont remedy both of those situations we will continue to suffer. Coincidentally, Taylor wont fire Saunders or Rosas and isnt able to sell the team. So we're fucked until he's forced to compromise and sell to someone who is going to move the team.

[Wolvesfan21]

The Milwaukee Bucks traded Kareem for Elmore Smith, Brian Winters, Junior Bridgeman, and Dave Meyers. A couple years later when they had multiple first round picks they were able to get Marques Johnson. All that team did over the next 8 years was average 54 wins per season. Wiinters, Bridgeman, and Johnson ended up having their jerseys hung in the rafters. That's how you parlay a great player into a bunch of pieces that result in a long term contender.

Was that 50 years ago? Like I said, it's rare.

[Lipoli390]

It makes no sense to trade him now. This is a strange season with Covid and we haven't had KAT on the floor much because of Covid and his wrist injury. The time to consider dealing him is the end of next season. By that time, we should know enough about the trajectory of our young players and the pairing of DLO and KAT as our two pillars to determine whether it makes sense to continue moving forward with him. At that point, we starting a League-wide bidding frenzy. KAT will command a very big return.

Lip, that's the thing. We know, or at least I do, that KAT and DLO are not going to work as our two pillars. We're wasting time trying to build around those two. If you want to try and get what you can for DLO (not much), we could try to build around KAT. But again we don't have anything to build with for a couple years.

No argument from me on that point, Q. Like you, I'm already convinced that those two won't work as our two pillars. I said t that when we first traded for DLO, which was why I wasn't crazy about the deal. But I'm open to the possibility that I'm wrong and that the two can be a good enough tandem to get this team into the playoffs next season, possibly with a high enough seed to get out of the first round. In the meantime, I'd aggressively shop DLO and trade him if able to find a decent deal for him right now, But I think we'd be selling low and I don't think DLO's value goes down much from here. Once KAT is back, it should make DLO look better than he's looked so far this season, which might drive up his value.

If you get the chance, go back and look at the Wolves games against the Clippers and Miami last season after the trade-deadline deals. In the game against the Clippers, KAT played and JMac was our main PG. DLO was out that game. The ball moved beautifully and the Wolves won handily in one of their two best games of the season. JMac was terrific and a key to the win. You could see the potential of this team with KAT, but no DLO. In the Miami game, DLO played and KAT was out. JMac played substantial minutes that game, often alongside DLO, and was again pivotal to the Wolves win in what might have been an even more impressive win than the victory over the Clippers. That was an example of how good this team can be with DLO playing if he's used the right way, plays the right way and has another PG like JMac to facilitate better ball movement.

I'm not optimistic about this team going forward with KAT and DLO as the two pillars, but given the investment already made, this organization has to fully exhaust that possibility before moving KAT. If they can get a good deal for DLO yet this season or before next season, they should do it. But we should stick with KAT until the end of next season and see what happens with or without DLO. KAT will be just as valuable in the trade market then as he is now, if not more so.

Lip, I'm not Q. I'm going to have to disagree with you on this. You seem to be contradicting yourself. On the one hand you're convinced KAT and DLO can't be our two pillars, but on the other you leave open the possibility of getting to the Western Conference semifinals. Those two viewpoints don't mesh. You were right on the first point and should have left it at that.

If we wait until the end of next season to move KAT, here is the fallout:

1) I'd be very surprised if KAT doesn't force his way out before that

2) We all age 2 more years while the losses pile up

3) We age another 3 years while our assets from the KAT trade evolve into NBA players

My point is we are hosed right now and we don't have any options to remedy that. We would suck without KAT and we suck with him. DLO's value is lower than whale shit right now, and no one is going to be as dumb as Rosas was in dealing for him. His contract is going to be an albatross for years to come. Trading KAT is a really bad reality, but it's the only way for this franchise to change course.

Cool - I thought for sure you were Q. :) Sorry about that. I'm not contradicting myself. I'm simply acknowledging that you and I could be wrong about the KAT/DLO pairing. Yes, Cam might be right on this one. :) My points is that there's no rush to deal KAT. I'm willing to wait until he tells management he wants out and see if this thing can be salvaged without dealing KAT. To me, its' worth waiting even if the odds of significantly improvement and making the playoffs next season are remote because the cost of waiting is minimal.

The odds of landing another player of KAT's caliber are pretty remote regardless of how many draft picks we have. I think that means giving every chance possible for success with KAT here before we consider trading him, which means giving more time to see if you and I turn out to be wrong about the KAT/DLO pairing or if some of our other young players improve enough to move the needle significantly. Or maybe there's a trade or free agent acquisition that could move the needle. There's simply no compelling reason not to wait. KAT's not going anywhere in the meantime and, having recently turned 25, his value isn't going to decline over the next 12-18 months.

There are no signs or evidence that KAT is pushing to get out of here. And there's no telling when or even if that will happen. KAT has a sentimental attachment to Ryan and DLO is his close friend. Moreover, this season is an anomalous one with Covid, especially as it relates to KAT. So I don't see him demanding a trade until after next season or perhaps late next season at the earliest. If he starts pushing for a trade late next season, then the Wolves might need to consider dealing him at that point, but there's no rush. Again, my preference would be to deal DLO this season, but I recognize there's a risk that doing so would alienate KAT and cause him to want out of here sooner rather than later. That's a risk I'd be willing to take if we could get adequate value in return. Otherwise, we need to try to make this work with both KAT and DLO. I'm not optimistic about the outcome, but I recognize I could be wrong and I don't see any reason to not to wait until at least late next season before we consider dealing KAT.

[Coolbreeze44]

Lip, I respect your opinion on this. I think it boils down to you having more patience than I do. I don't want to lose KAT any more than you do. But as a sports fan I value having hope, and this current situation doesn't offer much. I'd probably trade our situation for any of the franchises in the league right now. That's why I don't want to wait for the inevitability of the next rebuild.