Minnesota Sports Forum

Posted: **Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:07 pm**

WolvesFan21 wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:
kekgeek1 wrote:
KG4Ever wrote:Jalen Suggs could be that kind of guy but in realistically the Wolves need to add another Jimmy Butler type that just knows how to win. I don't know if that is realistic but that is what needs to happen (That is why I wasn't down on the Rubio addition even though he hasn't looked good early.)

kekgeek1 wrote:
KG4Ever wrote:Only KAT has earned playing time. I'd give out minutes based on playing hard on both ends. Just giving minutes to Edwards or whoever because they are young sends the wrong message. We don't want to make the Thibs mistake of giving mega minutes to KAT, Lavine and Wiggins when they only played hard on offense. And just because DLO has a max contract doesn't mean he shouldn't be benched if he's not playing hard on defense as both the Nets and Lakers benched his a$$ when he loafed too much.

The big difference is that is not how the NBA works. Players like Edwards, Culver will get every opportunity to continue to improve because they make more money and they are a more negative asset if they can't provide anything. Im serious when I say this when is the last time a max player was legit benched on any organization. It just doesn't happen. Dlo will continue to play even if he is hurting the team (I do think he has been a lot better lately, but he was bad the last 5 minutes yesterday). I mean look at the closing line up at the end of the Grizzlies game. Dlo, Rubio, Beasley, Hernangomez and Kat. What do those people have in common, they are the wolves highest paid players.

The reason the wolves have sucked for year after year after year is the Wolves are stuck in the cycle of young players continuing to learn bad habits on a losing team because there is no defined roles on the roster and the organization only cares about a 3rd of the season before the wolves are out of the playoff hunt.

Wolves need to get lucky and add multiple players that are talented and know how to win in the draft. Wiggins didn't win at Kansas, Lavine didn't win at UCLA, Tyus knew how to win but wasn't a special talent. Wolves need guys who know how to do both. Edwards looks so far like he is in that Wiggins/Lavine category that are talented but have never learned to win. Personally I think Jalen Suggs could be that kind of guy but in realistically the Wolves need to add another Jimmy Butler type that just knows how to win. I don't know if that is realistic but that is what needs to happen (That is why I wasn't down on the Rubio addition even though he hasn't looked good early.)

Ha. Wolvesfan21 trying extra hard with that one.

Are you trying to be a dick or is that just the way you come across?

Legit serious, how was i being a dick here? I think to break the cycle we need to add a guy who knows how to win! Obviously Jimmy didn't go about it the right way but he raised the expectations for players in the organization. Iggy was added to the Warriors. Paul was added to the Clippers and now the suns and the young guys are learning how to win. Usually with consistently bad organizations you need to have talented players like Kat/curry/ Booker and a guy who can add accountability and expectations like Butler/iggy/ Paul

I'm neither of those posters.

Posted: **Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:54 pm**

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:I think it's top 3 protected. And with the more flattened odds of winning the lottery, the chance of even the worst team getting a top 3 pick is definitely diminished. We could easily tank, have one of the worst records in the league, and still not keep our pick. Think about the impact on team morale.

I guess you could say we're arguably already the team with the worst reputation in the league and a horrific tradition of losing, so how much worse could it be? But really, no, I can't get on board with that. Seriously, this team is probably at risk of getting sold and moved, and tanking would just soil our reputation further and make that a greater likelihood.

Kiwi and Cool are right. We have to turn this franchise around, and tanking can't be the answer.

Actually, I have a question for the longtime guys who have been here forever. I can't even believe I'm writing this, but your post prompted me, WolvesFan, so here goes: When you guys watch losing season after losing season, and see gut-wrenching losses like last night, is there any part of you that actually thinks maybe we deserve to get sold and moved? Any part of you that secretly hopes for it?

It would devastate me, but sometimes, in these bleak, dark days, a small part of me kind of wants it to end. I'd lose something that's been so valuable to me over the years (2 decades of pretty intense fandom now), but it's just felt abusive, honestly, to be a fan of this team. If they moved, at least we could be a little more free to just be NBA fans generally. I love basketball, all of it, not just this team. I'd be able to spend more time actually watching good basketball on a regular basis instead of this never-ending nightmare.

Obviously, it's easier for me to say because I don't live in Minnesota and can't go to games there anyway (I actually became a fan just as I moved away from the state for what's turned out to be a really long time, maybe forever). I guess if the team moved, I could still be a fan, although honestly, I probably wouldn't. Why would I want to? Who in Seattle follows OKC? It would be an excuse for me to finally end this relationship.

Of course, I'd lose the investment I'd have in this team--the hope that maybe our next pick could blossom and turn things around, or even possibly the feeling of excitement if this team were ever competitive again. I feel excitement when we play well. I feel hurt when we lose. Those feelings are valuable, and I wouldn't want to lose them. But so often a part of me feels like I don't get enough of the positive feelings from this team to offset even remotely all the negative feelings this team causes me. I've poured so much time and attention and emotion into this team for so long that losing the team would feel a bit like all that's been wasted. But that sounds like the rationalization of a person who can't break out of a really unhealthy relationship, and if anybody ever told me that they felt like that about a relationship with another person, I'd tell them to get the hell out. A relationship with a person and a relationship with a team are not quite the same thing, but it's pretty damn close.

Honestly, this board and my need for (probably irrational) hope in the future are the main reasons why I didn't give up long ago. Anybody else feel like this?

Way ahead of you. Glen Taylor has only given Wolves fans 2 options: root for a crappy team or don't root for a team at all. The fact that rooting for a good team never seems to be a viable option causes me to not care if the team exists anymore, let alone if they're crappy. The payoff isn't there anymore for this organization, at least until there's new ownership. I've seen a team in my city be at the very bottom (the Nets) and build itself up with hard work, development, and time. For a team as eternally bad as this one, time never seems to be on their side. I only feel bad for the fans, Jim Pete, and players who involuntarily wind up in Minnesota.

Posted: **Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:05 am**

I voted no on tanking, mainly because we gain nothing from losing given the fact that we gave the Warriors both of our 2021 draft picks and the first round pick we gave them is only top 3 protected.

The Wolves still need to take a longer-term view. That means focusing on the evaluation and development of our younger, less experienced players. But I don't know that this team wins fewer games playing JMac instead of Ricky or McDaniels instead of Ed Davis. In other words we don't lose much taking minutes away from our two older vets and giving those minutes to some younger players. I also think it's past time for Ryan to reduce the playing time of our young players who haven't been performing. In my view, that means less playing time for Edwards and Culver coupled with more playing time for JMac and Nowell. It also means more time for McDaniels.

There is talent on this team. Edwards is certainly physically gifted. McDaniels may be even more talented than Edwards. JMac and Naz Reid and good players with more upside. Okogie is an elite defender. I'm not a DLO fan, but he's talented and can really light up the scoreboard. And of course, KAT is an elite player. So this team isn't a complete lost cause. But the roster is flawed and the head coach isn't very good. And so far, Edwards is confirming why there were so many doubts about him coming out of college while McDaniels is still a long shot. Culver looks more and more like a draft bust and DLO isn't a max player or a good fit for this team. With no draft picks this year, I don't see much light at the end of the tunnel.

Posted: **Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:23 am**

At this point... I'd think everybody here is well aware of where I stand on this issue.

Posted: **Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:04 am**

The initial question is based on two false premises in my opinion, which are as follows:

False premise #1 - Playing vets over young guys leads to more winning.

False premise # 2 - Playing young guys over vets leads to more development.

On #1, does anyone think playing more Juancho and Layman at the 4 leads to more winning than playing Vanderbilt and McDaniels at the 4? It's neutral at best and perhaps many here would argue that playing the young guys in that case leads to MORE winning. Also, is Ed Davis as KAT's primary backup much better than Naz Reid? I'm not so sure on that either. McLaughlin vs. Rubio? Same thing, at least this season based on Rubio's performance so far.

On #2, does anyone think giving Edwards 35 MPG instead of 25MPG is going to lead to better development? Yay, let's entitle a guy missing shots and not doing much else to impact the game spend even MORE time missing shots and not doing much else to impact the game.

And lastly, the realities of injuries and Covid have largely rendered the question moot for now. We only have so many bodies available and most HAVE to play in order for the team to compete in a 48-minute game.

Posted: **Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:14 am**

Q12543 wrote:The initial question is based on two false premises in my opinion, which are as follows:

False premise #1 - Playing vets over young guys leads to more winning.

False premise # 2 - Playing young guys over vets leads to more development.

On #1, does anyone think playing more Juancho and Layman at the 4 leads to more winning than playing Vanderbilt and McDaniels at the 4? It's neutral at best and perhaps many here would argue that playing the young guys in that case leads to MORE winning. Also, is Ed Davis as KAT's primary backup much better than Naz Reid? I'm not so sure on that either. McLaughlin vs. Rubio? Same thing, at least this season based on Rubio's performance so far.

On #2, does anyone think giving Edwards 35 MPG instead of 25MPG is going to lead to better development? Yay, let's entitle a guy missing shots and not doing much else to impact the game spend even MORE time missing shots and not doing much else to impact the game.

And lastly, the realities of injuries and Covid have largely rendered the question moot for now. We only have so many bodies available and most HAVE to play in order for the team to compete in a 48-minute game.

You do have Culver to split minutes with Edwards. For sure I would give more minutes to whoever is playing better. If Edwards wants minutes or Culver they will have to battle it out. More like a pillow fight at this point though.

Posted: **Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:34 am**

WolvesFan21 wrote:
Q12543 wrote:The initial question is based on two false premises in my opinion, which are as follows:

False premise #1 - Playing vets over young guys leads to more winning.

False premise # 2 - Playing young guys over vets leads to more development.

On #1, does anyone think playing more Juancho and Layman at the 4 leads to more winning than playing Vanderbilt and McDaniels at the 4? It's neutral at best and perhaps many here would argue that playing the young guys in that case leads to MORE winning. Also, is Ed Davis as KAT's primary backup much better than Naz Reid? I'm not so sure on that either. McLaughlin vs. Rubio? Same thing, at least this season based on Rubio's performance so far.

On #2, does anyone think giving Edwards 35 MPG instead of 25MPG is going to lead to better development? Yay, let's entitle a guy missing shots and not doing much else to impact the game spend even MORE time missing shots and not doing much else to impact the game.

And lastly, the realities of injuries and Covid have largely rendered the question moot for now. We only have so many bodies available and most HAVE to play in order for the team to compete in a 48-minute game.

You do have Culver to split minutes with Edwards. For sure I would give more minutes to whoever is playing better. If Edwards wants minutes or Culver they will have to battle it out. More like a pillow fight at this point though.

Right. That's my point. Both are young. Both need to develop. Both suck right now. So there is literally no winning now vs. future development tradeoff between the two.

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