Minnesota Sports Forum

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:The difference between Kobe and DeRozan is that Kobe could lock people down defensively and was an alpha dog competitor. Also, what passed as efficient offense in Kobe's days simply doesn't cut it as top tier anymore. The top scorers in today's NBA are posting TS% of 60% or better. Back in Kobe's day, a 55% TS was quite good because the 3 wasn't being utilized as much. Now it's just kind of "meh".

So I still think Wiggins ends up closer to the DeRozan side of that spectrum than Kobe. But if Butler keeps being Butler and KAT becomes better defensively, than Wiggins as DeRozan 2.0 is a pretty damn good 3rd guy.

I'm where you are, Q. I'm still hoping Wiggins becomes more than that. He certainly has the physical characteristics to be much better than DeRozan 2.0. But at this point, I'll take DeRozan 2.0 on the assumption that Butler continues to be who he's been and KAT becomes who I think he'll become.

This talk of Kobe reminds me a recent time Patrick Beverly was on a podcast with Woj. They were talking about the way the game has changed and how Beverly embraced the analytics when he went to Houston. Beverly said he actually asked to be traded because he wanted a bigger role and said he can do more than he showed in Houston because he took that out of his game because of what he was asked to do. Kobe's name was brought up and how he played the game and Beverly said something like "Kobe can play in any era he would have made some adjustments to his game."

Yesterday I listened to a podcast with a guy that had Rod Strickland on it which was interesting. Rod said he was honestly not a big fan of analytics because he really trusted his eye test and how he saw those things. He said he really converted because of the way a few guys presented themselves and their data this summer at one of the events he attended. He said really we always have used stats to confirm what we saw or find something we may have missed but now it's so so much more like stats on serioids. He said that guys like Morey sound from the outside like just stat geeks but he is absolutely a basketball guy. The host of the podcast said a lot of Morey's favorite players are guys that are more post players that don't fit the pace and space type thing and Morey was an undersized post player when he played in HS.

If Wiggins becomes Derozan with a 3 we have a perennial all star at the wing, something this team has never had. I'm failing to see the downside in that.

thedoper wrote:If Wiggins becomes Derozan with a 3 we have a perennial all star at the wing, something this team has never had. I'm failing to see the downside in that.

There is no downside if he becomes that player. The downside is that he isn't already that player and we are shelling out max money him. We are simply hoping he becomes that, but there is no guarantee. It's about as speculative of a max deal that I've ever seen, but I honestly don't think we have any other options because of the potential upside. In Thibs we trust.

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:The difference between Kobe and DeRozan is that Kobe could lock people down defensively and was an alpha dog competitor. Also, what passed as efficient offense in Kobe's days simply doesn't cut it as top tier anymore. The top scorers in today's NBA are posting TS% of 60% or better. Back in Kobe's day, a 55% TS was quite good because the 3 wasn't being utilized as much. Now it's just kind of "meh".

So I still think Wiggins ends up closer to the DeRozan side of that spectrum than Kobe. But if Butler keeps being Butler and KAT becomes better defensively, than Wiggins as DeRozan 2.0 is a pretty damn good 3rd guy.

I'm where you are, Q. I'm still hoping Wiggins becomes more than that. He certainly has the physical characteristics to be much better than DeRozan 2.0. But at this point, I'll take DeRozan 2.0 on the assumption that Butler continues to be who he's been and KAT becomes who I think he'll become.

This talk of Kobe reminds me a recent time Patrick Beverly was on a podcast with Woj. They were talking about the way the game has changed and how Beverly embraced the analytics when he went to Houston. Beverly said he actually asked to be traded because he wanted a bigger role and said he can do more than he showed in Houston because he took that out of his game because of what he was asked to do. Kobe's name was brought up and how he played the game and Beverly said something like "Kobe can play in any era he would have made some adjustments to his game."

Yesterday I listened to a podcast with a guy that had Rod Strickland on it which was interesting. Rod said he was honestly not a big fan of analytics because he really trusted his eye test and how he saw those things. He said he really converted because of the way a few guys presented themselves and their data this summer at one of the events he attended. He said really we always have used stats to confirm what we saw or find something we may have missed but now it's so so much more like stats on serioids. He said that guys like Morey sound from the outside like just stat geeks but he is absolutely a basketball guy. The host of the podcast said a lot of Morey's favorite players are guys that are more post players that don't fit the pace and space type thing and Morey was an undersized post player when he played in HS.

Kinda related?

Beverley also mentioned how so many NBA players obviously "don't play hard" and that's one reason he's been successful. I wonder what his opinion of Wiggins (3) and KAT (2) this far in their respective careers would be...

Related or not... the Wolves are 1 - 10 vs. the Rockets in Wiggins career.