Minnesota Sports Forum

I have many of the same concerns about Marksman that others do but i just feel that he will be the guy of Thibs is as concerned about shooting as he says. I actually hope Dennis Smith somehow goes before us to push another guy down although the Duncd podcasts dont make me feel much better abour Tatum or Jackson. If Thibs thinks there is enough to work with by taking Marksman, I'm good with that.

khans2k5 wrote:There are so many guys I would take before Markkanen in this draft. I'd take a chance on Giles before I started Markkanen. I think he's gonna be garbage.

I agree, Kahns. Markkenan's 0.4 block per game state is pathetic, and his 7.2 rebounds remarkably mediocre, for a college 7-footer playing over 30 minutes a game. Look behind his 3-point shooting and you see he hit 54.5% of his 2-pointers. That's poor for a 7-foot college PF or C. Zach Collins hit 67.2% of his 2 pointers while John Collins hit 62.4% of his twos. The much smaller Jordan Bell hit nearly 66 % of his two-point shots. Markkenan's mediocre 2-point shooting is particularly troubling for a player whose calling card in shooting.

For anyone who likes Markkenan in spite of his stats, I recommend the Markkenan v. Ivan Rabb video on draft express. Watch the two, not just when they're head to head. You can see the difference between the physical tools of someone who has NBA potential beyond 3-point shooting and someone who does not.

I'm not hip on the Markkenan pick. But it's less about him than the Wolves.

Towns' ultimate value is as the league's signature Stretch 5. He still has the size and inside presence to be a factor in the middle... while taking plodding centers outside. It enables the Wolves to play faster, smaller, more interchangeably everywhere else... which is where most of the NBA is heading right now.

By adding Markkenan... wouldn't the team be marginalizing that a bit? Defensively, the Wolves are going to struggle against teams that play small. And the knock on Markkenan is that he doesn't have the chops to take small guys on the inside to counter that strategy. As such, I think he gets taken off the floor in big games.

Count me in the camp of guys who will be very disappointed if we end up with Markannen. I only watched him a couple times toward the end of the season, but he looked nothing like a lottery pick in the two games I watched him (including one tournament game). My biggest concern though is different than that of his other detractors...I'm not convinced he will be even an average 3-point shooter at the next level. I note his 42% 3-point average, and it just didn't jive with the poor shooter I was watching on TV, and the disconnect caused me to break down his shooting stats more granularly. And as I posted a month ago, the results were very telling for me. Yes, he shot very well at the start of the season (often against poor non-conference opponents), but when the games really mattered, he shot only 26% of his threes the last 15 games of the season. I know an entire season is a much bigger sample size than the final 15 games, but which sample is more relevant. I would argue that shooting stats in games that matter against better defenses is more relevant than stats at the beginning of the season. His 3-point shots in the NBA will be further out while being guarded by better defenders, so I have a hard time concluding that he will shoot better than the 26% he shot the last 2 months of the season.

Like others here, I have some trust in Thibs' work ethic in evaluating potential picks, and I would be stunned if he didn't notice the Finn's poor shooting at the end of the year. Some here call him an "elite" 3-point shooter, but my evaluation is far short of that. Based on his one year in college, my conclusion would be that he is an elite shooter against lesser competition, and a subpar 3-point shooter against better competition. Combined with his other deficiencies, that doesn't sound like a lottery pick to me.

longstrangetrip wrote:Count me in the camp of guys who will be very disappointed if we end up with Markannen. I only watched him a couple times toward the end of the season, but he looked nothing like a lottery pick in the two games I watched him (including one tournament game). My biggest concern though is different than that of his other detractors...I'm not convinced he will be even an average 3-point shooter at the next level. I note his 42% 3-point average, and it just didn't jive with the poor shooter I was watching on TV, and the disconnect caused me to break down his shooting stats more granularly. And as I posted a month ago, the results were very telling for me. Yes, he shot very well at the start of the season (often against poor non-conference opponents), but when the games really mattered, he shot only 26% of his threes the last 15 games of the season. I know an entire season is a much bigger sample size than the final 15 games, but which sample is more relevant. I would argue that shooting stats in games that matter against better defenses is more relevant than stats at the beginning of the season. His 3-point shots in the NBA will be further out while being guarded by better defenders, so I have a hard time concluding that he will shoot better than the 26% he shot the last 2 months of the season.

Like others here, I have some trust in Thibs' work ethic in evaluating potential picks, and I would be stunned if he didn't notice the Finn's poor shooting at the end of the year. Some here call him an "elite" 3-point shooter, but my evaluation is far short of that. Based on his one year in college, my conclusion would be that he is an elite shooter against lesser competition, and a subpar 3-point shooter against better competition. Combined with his other deficiencies, that doesn't sound like a lottery pick to me.

Unless you were going to argue fatigue I don't know why you wouldn't include all of conference play if your point is he falters against tougher competition. From a quick glance it looks like he shot 41.5% through conference play, conference tournament, and NCAA tournament.

foye2smith wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:Count me in the camp of guys who will be very disappointed if we end up with Markannen. I only watched him a couple times toward the end of the season, but he looked nothing like a lottery pick in the two games I watched him (including one tournament game). My biggest concern though is different than that of his other detractors...I'm not convinced he will be even an average 3-point shooter at the next level. I note his 42% 3-point average, and it just didn't jive with the poor shooter I was watching on TV, and the disconnect caused me to break down his shooting stats more granularly. And as I posted a month ago, the results were very telling for me. Yes, he shot very well at the start of the season (often against poor non-conference opponents), but when the games really mattered, he shot only 26% of his threes the last 15 games of the season. I know an entire season is a much bigger sample size than the final 15 games, but which sample is more relevant. I would argue that shooting stats in games that matter against better defenses is more relevant than stats at the beginning of the season. His 3-point shots in the NBA will be further out while being guarded by better defenders, so I have a hard time concluding that he will shoot better than the 26% he shot the last 2 months of the season.

Like others here, I have some trust in Thibs' work ethic in evaluating potential picks, and I would be stunned if he didn't notice the Finn's poor shooting at the end of the year. Some here call him an "elite" 3-point shooter, but my evaluation is far short of that. Based on his one year in college, my conclusion would be that he is an elite shooter against lesser competition, and a subpar 3-point shooter against better competition. Combined with his other deficiencies, that doesn't sound like a lottery pick to me.

Unless you were going to argue fatigue I don't know why you wouldn't include all of conference play if your point is he falters against tougher competition. From a quick glance it looks like he shot 41.5% through conference play, conference tournament, and NCAA tournament.

That's fair, but I would also argue that shots get tougher to make when they matter most, and end of year games matter way more than early season conference games...defenses get tighter, as do sphincters. I put much more weight on performance under the bright lights. Fatigue would be a bad answer, because the grind of an NBA season is far beyond the grind of a college season, especially with Thibs as a coach. The only factor that would make me feel better about Markannen as a reliable shooter would be an injury at the end of the season that caused his shooting to drop off the cliff. Absent that, this guy scares me.

Saw a tweet quoting Thibs that he wants a tough, shot blocking center next to KAT. That should all but end the Markkanen talk as he is none of the above lol. Again, nothing but the best from Chad Ford tying us to another stretch 4 because he has no information regarding who our team actually wants.

khans2k5 wrote:Saw a tweet quoting Thibs that he wants a tough, shot blocking center next to KAT. That should all but end the Markkanen talk as he is none of the above lol. Again, nothing but the best from Chad Ford tying us to another stretch 4 because he has no information regarding who our team actually wants.

So either Thibs wants to zig when everybody else is zagging... or he's really behind the times.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:Saw a tweet quoting Thibs that he wants a tough, shot blocking center next to KAT. That should all but end the Markkanen talk as he is none of the above lol. Again, nothing but the best from Chad Ford tying us to another stretch 4 because he has no information regarding who our team actually wants.

So either Thibs wants to zig when everybody else is zagging... or he's really behind the times.

Or maybe he does want a Zag. Zach Collins?

Phenom's_Revenge wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:Saw a tweet quoting Thibs that he wants a tough, shot blocking center next to KAT. That should all but end the Markkanen talk as he is none of the above lol. Again, nothing but the best from Chad Ford tying us to another stretch 4 because he has no information regarding who our team actually wants.

So either Thibs wants to zig when everybody else is zagging... or he's really behind the times.

Or maybe he does want a Zag. Zach Collins?

I have a feeling that's his trade down target if they decide to trade down.