Minnesota Sports Forum

khans2k5 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Yeah, we've been championing the team/player potential for so long... it's more than a bit disheartening to realize we can't even tout that as an identity any longer.

I might be ok with somebody entirely willing to reinvent the wheel at this point even though it could turn into another David Kahn disaster.

We don't need to reinvent the wheel. We just need competence. The thought leaders of the NBA aren't coming to MN. We need people who can just run the organization with NBA competence. It's not rocket science, but we literally haven't had a normal competent front office in forever (Flip in round 2 didn't have enough time to prove one way or another if he was going to work well as the PBO). There aren't any cheat codes out there. Manage the cap smartly and bring in the right analytics people to bring this team into the modern NBA. We need a Masai to come in here and take what we have and make lemonade with it. He didn't change the front office game. He just made really smart and savvy moves to rebuild that team without fully tanking. That's what we need more than trying to find a workaround to our problems by reinventing the wheel.

Sure. Competence would go a long way.

My take is more along the lines of simply being innovators instead of reluctant followers. Push the proverbial envelope, even one time.

One guy I think might gain steam again is Fred Hoiberg. Consider he was considered an up-and-coming innovative coach. Yes... he flamed out in Chicago. But if we look closer, how much of that is on him?

- Allegedly, a bit weak on policing players. Fair enough.
- But he came in with his up-and-down pace system... only to be given old veteran over-dribbling trodders like Wade to implement it.
- The Bulls front office has been embarrassingly inept. And now they're seemingly going all in on Jim Boylen who's sorta seen as a clown around the league.

If we can talk ourselves into the Bulls front office are idiots angle... is there still something there with Hoiberg... and can he bring what first interested teams + what he's learned along the way and build something here?

He is a lifetime member of the country club after all... so we have that going for us, too.

And what about our guard and wing personnel fit what Hoiberg wants to do? That just seems like more wrong coach given the personnel and setting him up to fail again. We have a modern NBA talent issue. We don't have shooters. Bringing in someone who wants us to shoot more isn't going to make them better shooters. So you either change out the players to fit the new coach which after this deadline seems to be a problem or you bring in a coach who can actually implement a game plan that fits what we do have. Just shooting more 3's isn't gonna fix this team because we don't have the players to do that effectively.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Yeah, we've been championing the team/player potential for so long... it's more than a bit disheartening to realize we can't even tout that as an identity any longer.

I might be ok with somebody entirely willing to reinvent the wheel at this point even though it could turn into another David Kahn disaster.

We don't need to reinvent the wheel. We just need competence. The thought leaders of the NBA aren't coming to MN. We need people who can just run the organization with NBA competence. It's not rocket science, but we literally haven't had a normal competent front office in forever (Flip in round 2 didn't have enough time to prove one way or another if he was going to work well as the PBO). There aren't any cheat codes out there. Manage the cap smartly and bring in the right analytics people to bring this team into the modern NBA. We need a Masai to come in here and take what we have and make lemonade with it. He didn't change the front office game. He just made really smart and savvy moves to rebuild that team without fully tanking. That's what we need more than trying to find a workaround to our problems by reinventing the wheel.

Sure. Competence would go a long way.

My take is more along the lines of simply being innovators instead of reluctant followers. Push the proverbial envelope, even one time.

One guy I think might gain steam again is Fred Hoiberg. Consider he was considered an up-and-coming innovative coach. Yes... he flamed out in Chicago. But if we look closer, how much of that is on him?

- Allegedly, a bit weak on policing players. Fair enough.
- But he came in with his up-and-down pace system... only to be given old veteran over-dribbling trodders like Wade to implement it.
- The Bulls front office has been embarrassingly inept. And now they're seemingly going all in on Jim Boylen who's sorta seen as a clown around the league.

If we can talk ourselves into the Bulls front office are idiots angle... is there still something there with Hoiberg... and can he bring what first interested teams + what he's learned along the way and build something here?

He is a lifetime member of the country club after all... so we have that going for us, too.

And what about our guard and wing personnel fit what Hoiberg wants to do? That just seems like more wrong coach given the personnel and setting him up to fail again. We have a modern NBA talent issue. We don't have shooters. Bringing in someone who wants us to shoot more isn't going to make them better shooters. So you either change out the players to fit the new coach which after this deadline seems to be a problem or you bring in a coach who can actually implement a game plan that fits what we do have. Just shooting more 3's isn't gonna fix this team because we don't have the players to do that effectively.

The team literally has one player with legit value that demands a system to complement him... Towns. TBH, I don't know enough of Hoiberg's system to know if it works for KAT or not. I just know that KAT is one of the best big men shooters in NBA history.

Covington is nice because of his length and willingness to play a complementary role as a catch-and-shoot specialist who takes on tough perimeter defensive assignments.

Everybody else is expendable. As noted... Wiggins has to go... for both Wiggins and for this organization. It isn't working. Things are regressing.

The only other player on contract beyond next season is Dieng.

So it's actually a pretty clean slate... if Wiggins can be moved.

khans2k5 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Yeah, we've been championing the team/player potential for so long... it's more than a bit disheartening to realize we can't even tout that as an identity any longer.

I might be ok with somebody entirely willing to reinvent the wheel at this point even though it could turn into another David Kahn disaster.

We don't need to reinvent the wheel. We just need competence. The thought leaders of the NBA aren't coming to MN. We need people who can just run the organization with NBA competence. It's not rocket science, but we literally haven't had a normal competent front office in forever (Flip in round 2 didn't have enough time to prove one way or another if he was going to work well as the PBO). There aren't any cheat codes out there. Manage the cap smartly and bring in the right analytics people to bring this team into the modern NBA. We need a Masai to come in here and take what we have and make lemonade with it. He didn't change the front office game. He just made really smart and savvy moves to rebuild that team without fully tanking. That's what we need more than trying to find a workaround to our problems by reinventing the wheel.

Sure. Competence would go a long way.

My take is more along the lines of simply being innovators instead of reluctant followers. Push the proverbial envelope, even one time.

One guy I think might gain steam again is Fred Hoiberg. Consider he was considered an up-and-coming innovative coach. Yes... he flamed out in Chicago. But if we look closer, how much of that is on him?

- Allegedly, a bit weak on policing players. Fair enough.
- But he came in with his up-and-down pace system... only to be given old veteran over-dribbling trodders like Wade to implement it.
- The Bulls front office has been embarrassingly inept. And now they're seemingly going all in on Jim Boylen who's sorta seen as a clown around the league.

If we can talk ourselves into the Bulls front office are idiots angle... is there still something there with Hoiberg... and can he bring what first interested teams + what he's learned along the way and build something here?

He is a lifetime member of the country club after all... so we have that going for us, too.

And what about our guard and wing personnel fit what Hoiberg wants to do? That just seems like more wrong coach given the personnel and setting him up to fail again. We have a modern NBA talent issue. We don't have shooters. Bringing in someone who wants us to shoot more isn't going to make them better shooters. So you either change out the players to fit the new coach which after this deadline seems to be a problem or you bring in a coach who can actually implement a game plan that fits what we do have. Just shooting more 3's isn't gonna fix this team because we don't have the players to do that effectively.

The team literally has one player with legit value that demands a system to complement him... Towns. TBH, I don't know enough of Hoiberg's system to know if it works for KAT or not. I just know that KAT is one of the best big men shooters in NBA history.

Covington is nice because of his length and willingness to play a complementary role as a catch-and-shoot specialist who takes on tough perimeter defensive assignments.

Everybody else is expendable. As noted... Wiggins has to go... for both Wiggins and for this organization. It isn't working. Things are regressing.

The only other player on contract beyond next season is Dieng.

So it's actually a pretty clean slate... if Wiggins can be moved.

Towns and Covington are the only 2 guys on the team who can shoot. That means you are turning over 13 roster spots just to get guys that can give Fred a chance to be successful. That's not a clean slate. That's a miserable mess trying to turn that much over to fit the coach. Letting everyone go with limited cap space and middling picks to replace them sounds like a disaster of a rebuild.