Camden0916 wrote:Dario Saric has played 12 games with the Wolves since being acquired in the Jimmy Butler deal. In those 12 games, he's averaging 10.0 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 1.2 APG, and 1.4 3PM in 22.1 MPG on 44.9 FG%, 37.8 3P%, 88.2 FT% shooting.
Simply put, he's being every bit the versatile and efficient playmaker from the PF position that the NBA knows him to be. It's up to Tom Thibodeau and the rest of the coaching staff to understand that he's the best PF on this roster and that they need to begin the slide of Taj Gibson, the starter, to Taj Gibson, the first big off the bench. Bury Gorgui Dieng somewhere in Oregon and leave him there.
Lastly, I know the Per-36 stat is fuzzy. I know there are quirks with it, but if you were to extrapolate Saric's numbers in Minnesota over 36 minutes, we'd have a player that would be averaging just under 17.0 PPG and 9.0 RPG. Free Saric. Give him some reign and our team's ceiling rises significantly.
Thibs wont make a change unless taj gets hurt.
He has a plan in his head wont delve from it unless absolutely necessary.
You guys are obviously missing the point...Thibs is The Smartest Guy in the Room, and everybody else just doesn't get it. He tells us that in every post-game loss press conference, reminding us that the players just didn't execute on his game plan. We're lucky to have him.
Camden wrote:Dario Saric has played 12 games with the Wolves since being acquired in the Jimmy Butler deal. In those 12 games, he's averaging 10.0 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 1.2 APG, and 1.4 3PM in 22.1 MPG on 44.9 FG%, 37.8 3P%, 88.2 FT% shooting.
Simply put, he's being every bit the versatile and efficient playmaker from the PF position that the NBA knows him to be. It's up to Tom Thibodeau and the rest of the coaching staff to understand that he's the best PF on this roster and that they need to begin the slide of Taj Gibson, the starter, to Taj Gibson, the first big off the bench. Bury Gorgui Dieng somewhere in Oregon and leave him there.
Lastly, I know the Per-36 stat is fuzzy. I know there are quirks with it, but if you were to extrapolate Saric's numbers in Minnesota over 36 minutes, we'd have a player that would be averaging just under 17.0 PPG and 9.0 RPG. Free Saric. Give him some reign and our team's ceiling rises significantly.
Cam - Those stats make a compelling case to allocate far more of the team's PF minutes to Saric. But we all know Thibodeau won't do that. Last night's Portland game was yet another example of Thibodeau's irrational stubborness and why he needs to be replaced if this team is ever going to get the most out of the players we have.
Camden wrote:Dario Saric has played 12 games with the Wolves since being acquired in the Jimmy Butler deal. In those 12 games, he's averaging 10.0 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 1.2 APG, and 1.4 3PM in 22.1 MPG on 44.9 FG%, 37.8 3P%, 88.2 FT% shooting.
Simply put, he's being every bit the versatile and efficient playmaker from the PF position that the NBA knows him to be. It's up to Tom Thibodeau and the rest of the coaching staff to understand that he's the best PF on this roster and that they need to begin the slide of Taj Gibson, the starter, to Taj Gibson, the first big off the bench. Bury Gorgui Dieng somewhere in Oregon and leave him there.
Lastly, I know the Per-36 stat is fuzzy. I know there are quirks with it, but if you were to extrapolate Saric's numbers in Minnesota over 36 minutes, we'd have a player that would be averaging just under 17.0 PPG and 9.0 RPG. Free Saric. Give him some reign and our team's ceiling rises significantly.
Cam - Those stats make a compelling case to allocate far more of the team's PF minutes to Saric. But we all know Thibodeau won't do that. Last night's Portland game was yet another example of Thibodeau's irrational stubborness and why he needs to be replaced if this team is ever going to get the most out of the players we have.
Which of these players was better last night? I didn't see every minute of action but it looked like both guys were very good. I'm tired of having to pick of either on this board. Why can't we have 2 good players not just one?
Back to the real point that I think needs to be made...Saric is a good player and we made a good deal to get this guy and he looks like a part of the Wolves future. It's still early but it's looking like a pretty good trade.
I think the fact is that Saric stretches the floor offensively and moves the ball quickly while being a similar defender to Taj. I think the starting lineup would really get unlocked with him at the 4 providing great spacing for everyone to operate and he challenges everything he can defensively fairly effectively. He may not be obviously better than Taj yet, but his skill set is really a great fit next to the other starters. I just think unfortunately it's gonna take being obviously better than Taj to supplant him in the lineup since he's a Thibs guy. The good news is he's a long-term guy so Thibs may be stubborn with him this year, but no playoffs means no Thibs to do that again next year.
Monster I agree that it's great to have 2 PFs on this team that we like, and I don't think we have to choose which one is better...one of the differences between this roster and those of recent years is our depth. We have quality backups at every position, and even players we think deserve minutes who can't get into the rotation. The issue some of us here have is that we don't think thibs is using his roster in the best way. We like both rose and okogie, but who would have been a better choice at SG when we were up 6 late in the game? Most of us said josh, but thibs chose rose. Might have cost us the game, who knows. Thibs needs to make better decisions at critical times of the game.
longstrangetrip wrote:Monster I agree that it's great to have 2 PFs on this team that we like, and I don't think we have to choose which one is better...one of the differences between this roster and those of recent years is our depth. We have quality backups at every position, and even players we think deserve minutes who can't get into the rotation. The issue some of us here have is that we don't think thibs is using his roster in the best way. We like both rose and okogie, but who would have been a better choice at SG when we were up 6 late in the game? Most of us said josh, but thibs chose rose. Might have cost us the game, who knows. Thibs needs to make better decisions at critical times of the game.
I think it's fair to debate who should have been in there. I really didn't have any problems with the rotations in this game. Did the Wolves lose late in that game because of defense or was it Lilliard shot making? Would Okogie have sent his man to the foul line because he played too aggressively on D? I think there is more than one way to look at things. It doesn't mean either is wrong.
khans2k5 wrote:I think the fact is that Saric stretches the floor offensively and moves the ball quickly while being a similar defender to Taj. I think the starting lineup would really get unlocked with him at the 4 providing great spacing for everyone to operate and he challenges everything he can defensively fairly effectively. He may not be obviously better than Taj yet, but his skill set is really a great fit next to the other starters. I just think unfortunately it's gonna take being obviously better than Taj to supplant him in the lineup since he's a Thibs guy. The good news is he's a long-term guy so Thibs may be stubborn with him this year, but no playoffs means no Thibs to do that again next year.
Whether Thibs is here or not next year there is a pretty good chance Taj won't be. Personally I would start Saric but I can also see the idea of playing him off the bench with that group giving them more spacing and play making. I also like him playing minutes with Tyus. I would not be surprised if Thibs makes a move during the season starting Saric at some point or plays Saric more minutes than Taj.
I don't necessarily think Taj will be gone after this season, especially if Thibs is still here. I could see the Wolves signing Taj to a multi-year deal at a much lower salary - maybe 4 years at $7M per year. I wouldn't mind that - although I'd want to limit the salary to $5M per year.
It wasn't just who Thibodeau had in the game during the last few mi utes. The problem was his allocation of minutes and rotation decisions from the start of the game. Starting Rose and Taj rather than Okogie and Saric were mistakes against the Blazers. Starting Rose was a particularly bad decision. The Wolves have discovered a winning formula with a disruptive defender - Covington - in the staring lineup. Going from Cov to Rose rather than going to Okogie was a departure from that formula and a dumb decision on its face. Thibs doubled down on his initial mistake by not adjusting the rotation during the game. He tripled down when he fIled to have Okogie on the floor down the stretch to protect the Wolves small lead.
The numbers leave no doubt that Thibodeau's choices were poor ones. Check out this excerpt from an article in The Athletic:
The small backcourt of Rose and Teague was predictably porous on defense. Portland scored 74 points in the 25:22 they were paired -- a per-48 minute total of 140 -- and just 39 points in the 22:38 they were separated, which works out to 82.7 points per 48 minutes. It's a major reason why Teague was a game-worst minus-19, followed by Gibson at minus-14, Rose at minus-12 and Wiggins at minus-11. Towns and Saric only got two short stints together, totaling 3:57 in the second quarter and 3:16 in the fourth period, and finished plus-3 in that 7:13. For the game the plus players were Tyus Jones (plus-11), Okogie (plus-7) and Saric (plus-6).
Rose had a bad game, but he himself wasnt the biggest problem. His oairing with teague was an issue vs dame and cj. And it would have been much worse if cj was healthy.
My bigger issue is what this says to kat and wiggins.
The past few weeks was all about being kats team. Everyone said the right things. But in the 4th, it clearly wasnt. While the blazers went to their best, we couldn't do anything to help kat. No spacing, no looks, nothing. Again, it was to hand the ball off and provided spacing for teague and rose to probe.
Everyone wants wiggins to step up, and he has the past few games. But in the 4th, it doesnt matter because his role is to spread the floor and get out of the way for rose and teague to probe.
