Minnesota Sports Forum

I disagree with the overall idea that you can go from bottom feeder to contender in one season. Even the examples provided were the extreme of the extremes -- pure outliers.

1996 Spurs: Coming off an All-Star campaign, David Robinson plays only six games due to foot/back injuries. Chuck Person doesn't play a single game that year. 37-year old Dominique Wilkins leads the team in scoring. San Antonio lucked into a franchise-cementing, Hall of Fame, transcendent piece to their frontcourt.

2008 Celtics: Boston acquired All-Star Ray Allen on draft night for a top-five pick, which turned out to be Jeff Green (woof) and role players -- an absolute bargain for a legitimate star in the NBA. That low price tag for a star wouldn't happen in today's game. Then in late July, the Celtics acquired Kevin Garnett in a seven (!)-for-one deal; largest number of players dealt for one player in league history and something that will likely never happen again. It's also pretty rare for two star players in their primes to be available for trade at the same exact time and wind up with the same team. For perspective, that would have been like one team trading for both Jimmy Butler and Kyrie Irving in the same off-season. Ironically, Minnesota might have had the ability to pull that off, but we'll never know. Point is, that doesn't happen often, if ever.

"Trust the Process" Sixers: Not much needs to be said here other than Sam Hinkie. This man defines extremism. How many executives in league history have made their strategy as obvious, bold, and straightforward as he did? None. Lose, lose, try to lose some more, acquire draft picks at all costs, and make sure you lose. How many teams would have traded their 22-year old All-Star point guard after extending him on a team-friendly four-year deal? How many teams would deal their Rookie of the Year -- Michael Carter-Williams -- the season after winning the award? Hinkie was a mad man and I doubt we'll ever see anyone replicate what he did with such success.

It's downright unfair to not only the Minnesota Wolves, but every other franchise in basketball to use these very rare situations as the standard of going from loser to winner.

We're in Year 4 of...

The Wolves future is in the hands of Wiggins + Towns.

Nothing has changed... except for the pessimism of some frustrated with limited/stagnant improvement from one/both players in the first 3 years. Those two are the team's future. Still.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:We're in Year 4 of...

The Wolves future is in the hands of Wiggins + Towns.

Nothing has changed... except for the pessimism of some frustrated with limited/stagnant improvement from one/both players in the first 3 years. Those two are the team's future. Still.

Yeah, you want to be frustrated with anyone, it really needs to be Towns and Wiggins. Both were projected as 1a type guys, and neither has lifted this team the way they need to. It showed when Jimmy got hurt how bad we were when we needed those two to keep us afloat. I get the frustration with the coaching situation, but our future success, regardless of coach, rely's on these 2 players and their development.

Camden0916 wrote:I disagree with the overall idea that you can go from bottom feeder to contender in one season. Even the examples provided were the extreme of the extremes -- pure outliers.

1996 Spurs: Coming off an All-Star campaign, David Robinson plays only six games due to foot/back injuries. Chuck Person doesn't play a single game that year. 37-year old Dominique Wilkins leads the team in scoring. San Antonio lucked into a franchise-cementing, Hall of Fame, transcendent piece to their frontcourt.

2008 Celtics: Boston acquired All-Star Ray Allen on draft night for a top-five pick, which turned out to be Jeff Green (woof) and role players -- an absolute bargain for a legitimate star in the NBA. That low price tag for a star wouldn't happen in today's game. Then in late July, the Celtics acquired Kevin Garnett in a seven (!)-for-one deal; largest number of players dealt for one player in league history and something that will likely never happen again. It's also pretty rare for two star players in their primes to be available for trade at the same exact time and wind up with the same team. For perspective, that would have been like one team trading for both Jimmy Butler and Kyrie Irving in the same off-season. Ironically, Minnesota might have had the ability to pull that off, but we'll never know. Point is, that doesn't happen often, if ever.

"Trust the Process" Sixers: Not much needs to be said here other than Sam Hinkie. This man defines extremism. How many executives in league history have made their strategy as obvious, bold, and straightforward as he did? None. Lose, lose, try to lose some more, acquire draft picks at all costs, and make sure you lose. How many teams would have traded their 22-year old All-Star point guard after extending him on a team-friendly four-year deal? How many teams would deal their Rookie of the Year -- Michael Carter-Williams -- the season after winning the award? Hinkie was a mad man and I doubt we'll ever see anyone replicate what he did with such success.

It's downright unfair to not only the Minnesota Wolves, but every other franchise in basketball to use these very rare situations as the standard of going from loser to winner.

Not to mention even Philly is a fake contender right now. Embiid still has problems staying on the court and they got destroyed by an undermanned Boston team in the playoffs. Fultz is still a complete unknown. Simmons still can't shoot. Their 3 best players in Simmons, Embiid and Saric play in the frontcourt which is anti-current NBA trending. They are a good team, but last year showed talent doesn't always win out. Oh and Boston is fully healthy again so what changed for them that gives them any shot at beating Boston? If you have no shot at beating the best team in your conference how are you a contender to play the Warriors? They couldn't beat Boston when Boston was missing their top 2 guys and Philly had a healthy Embiid. That kind of injury luck may never happen again. I get everyone likes Simmons, but they just won't be a real contender until he gets a jumper. They got exposed last playoffs as a fake contender. They have a lot of work to do to be a real contender.

Camden wrote:I disagree with the overall idea that you can go from bottom feeder to contender in one season. Even the examples provided were the extreme of the extremes -- pure outliers.

1996 Spurs: Coming off an All-Star campaign, David Robinson plays only six games due to foot/back injuries. Chuck Person doesn't play a single game that year. 37-year old Dominique Wilkins leads the team in scoring. San Antonio lucked into a franchise-cementing, Hall of Fame, transcendent piece to their frontcourt.

2008 Celtics: Boston acquired All-Star Ray Allen on draft night for a top-five pick, which turned out to be Jeff Green (woof) and role players -- an absolute bargain for a legitimate star in the NBA. That low price tag for a star wouldn't happen in today's game. Then in late July, the Celtics acquired Kevin Garnett in a seven (!)-for-one deal; largest number of players dealt for one player in league history and something that will likely never happen again. It's also pretty rare for two star players in their primes to be available for trade at the same exact time and wind up with the same team. For perspective, that would have been like one team trading for both Jimmy Butler and Kyrie Irving in the same off-season. Ironically, Minnesota might have had the ability to pull that off, but we'll never know. Point is, that doesn't happen often, if ever.

"Trust the Process" Sixers: Not much needs to be said here other than Sam Hinkie. This man defines extremism. How many executives in league history have made their strategy as obvious, bold, and straightforward as he did? None. Lose, lose, try to lose some more, acquire draft picks at all costs, and make sure you lose. How many teams would have traded their 22-year old All-Star point guard after extending him on a team-friendly four-year deal? How many teams would deal their Rookie of the Year -- Michael Carter-Williams -- the season after winning the award? Hinkie was a mad man and I doubt we'll ever see anyone replicate what he did with such success.

It's downright unfair to not only the Minnesota Wolves, but every other franchise in basketball to use these very rare situations as the standard of going from loser to winner.

:-d :-d Well jeez, the last thing I want to do is be unfair.

Thank you for the diatribe and history lesson. But I was just pointing out the fact that in the NBA teams can and have gone from also ran to contender overnight.

We're in Year 4 of...

The Wolves future is in the hands of Wiggins + Towns.

Nothing has changed... except for the optimism/pessisism

Camden wrote:I disagree with the overall idea that you can go from bottom feeder to contender in one season. Even the examples provided were the extreme of the extremes -- pure outliers.


2008 Celtics: Boston acquired All-Star Ray Allen on draft night for a top-five pick, which turned out to be Jeff Green (woof) and role players -- an absolute bargain for a legitimate star in the NBA. That low price tag for a star wouldn't happen in today's game.

I think you're short-changing the Allen trade just a bit... sorry to nitpick.

It wasn't terrible at the time... but the players just didn't pan out. The Sonics got Wally Szczerbiak in that deal. Flawed... yes. But he did average 19.0 ppg on 49% shooting that year and was 3 years younger than the 31-year-old Allen.

Along with 23-year-old Delonte West who was a 12/3/4 guy who had shown flashes in his first 3 seasons.

And a #5 pick STILL has great value for a guy who wasn't on an All NBA team.

Can we just blow this thing up already and get back to the joy of having hope for the future? I was more hopeful back when the team sucked and was supposed to suck. This particular group of players/coaches/ownership have sucked the joy out of being a Wolves fan all while actually having a winning record.

I don't think I was ever as down on this team during their 13 year run of ineptitude. This team just isn't likeable.

TheSP wrote:Can we just blow this thing up already and get back to the joy of having hope for the future? I was more hopeful back when the team sucked and was supposed to suck. This particular group of players/coaches/ownership have sucked the joy out of being a Wolves fan all while actually having a winning record.

I don't think I was ever as down on this team during their 13 year run of ineptitude. This team just isn't likeable.

I don't get this. We got some blue collar vets in Butler and Taj and some young players finding their way. Yes there's been some ugly ball at times, and Thibs is a blowhard, but to not even find it compelling is strange to me. No way I want to go back to Telfair and Al. Or even the Adelman years grinding for 500. Yuck.

I'm with SP, it's a hard team to like. They play an unappealing style, lack any sense of vision, and have no chance of contending now or in the intermediate future. What's to like?

CoolBreeze44 wrote:I'm with SP, it's a hard team to like. They play an unappealing style, lack any sense of vision, and have no chance of contending now or in the intermediate future. What's to like?

I know one thing to like.....They were 30-11 at home and attendance went up. A lot more fans left the arena satisfied than in years past. Putting out a competitive product that plays well at home and gives folks a nice night out is still worth something in my book.