monsterpile wrote:On the money thing...here is a transcript of most of the sit down. And here is the quote straight from Butler. To me he said it's not about the money but then basically said it was about the money because they didn't move heaven and earth to pay him so he was not valued. He says it's all about telling the truth and being honest. This interview there is a few things that make me think he isn't really being honest which pisses me off about as much as anything.
Nichols: And he has two jobs here right? So he's the coach of the team, he's also the president of the team, so through the summers as you're also talking about contract stuff. They offered you an extension that would have given you four years, $110 million. The reports are that you wanted something else. That if they had moved some other pieces around, and freed up more money, that you would have gotten a renegotiation. It would have given you a shorter term contract, but more money. Is all that accurate?
Butler: It's accurate. But it's not about money. It's not.
Nichols: So tell me what it's about.
Butler: It's about saying we need you. We want you here. We can't do this without you. And that was the disconnect all along. You're saying one thing and you're saying it, and you're saying it. I mean I've learned enough times in life that saying something is completely different than acting upon it. Actions speak louder than words, whatever quote you want to use. And when it came to that point, it was like I let y'all know what the deal was as soon as you traded for me. I told you the truth from Day 1 and I will continue to do it. And I did it. It's kinda like, I don't know, a slap in the face? I don't know how to put it, but it made me think like maybe I'm not that important to your organization. That is how I took it.
Monster - Thanks for posting and included the excerpt. This is really telling. It truly is about the money. He's offended because the Wolves didn't make him their top contract priority, which in his mind required them to renegotiate his deal this summer. I think he truly believes it's not about the money, but of course it is. Players generally don't demand more money so they can buy another mansion. They demand it as a sign of respect. Marbury forced a trade, not because he needed more money for his lifestyle, but because KG made more. So it might be about respect, but it's definitely about the money. It eats at Butler that KAT and Wiggins make more money but don't, in his mind work as hard. But I think it's important to consider that Butler's ego might be getting in the way of his judgment. I get Butler questioning Wiggins' effort. We've all seen it. And note that KG has said that Wiggins "has no heart," which is his way of saying the passion and effort aren't there. But KG loves KAT and has never questioned KAT's effort. KG is not the kind of guy to like a players who doesn't give his all and play with heart.
I've said this A LOT on here over the years... it is often about the money.
Granted, that was when I was warning people that having an entire team of young guys looking to get paid and "get theirs" was perhaps not the best thing.
Turns out it's from a seasoned vet.
[Note: And I'm still confused why Wiggins + Towns continue to be grouped as one. Sure KAT makes more. But I see the $150M to Wiggins as the giant elephant in the room a lot more than KAT's deal. Then again, "alpha dogs" (ahem ahem) want the most money a lot of the time.]
Good point about the misleading tendency to group KAT and Wiggins together.
Again... it's simply the easier (e.g., lazier) narrative to take.
The was a small window to renegotiate. Aldridge reported it several times during a broadcast abd that this was what jimmy wanted.
They had to unload just under 15 million (diengs contract) and get jimmy signed before kats extension and before all other signings like picks and free agents.
Thats where the rumors of dieng being shopped at the tradeline started to pop up. But, i dont think there were any takers and thibs or whoever didnt want to attach a pick to make it happen. So, asking for a trade right after the season makes some sense.
So he's mad that when the team traded for him they didn't immediately gut their roster and extend him on the spot. I feel bad for whoever ends up giving him the 5/190. It's no wonder there's such a limited market for this guy. He's an impossible diva.
thedoper wrote:So he's mad that when the team traded for him they didn't immediately gut their roster and extend him on the spot. I feel bad for whoever ends up giving him the 5/190. It's no wonder there's such a limited market for this guy. He's an impossible diva.
Theres a chance that he won't get the 5/190 abd he knows it. So after the bulls traded him, he couldn't get the supermax. But, a renotiation gets him alot of money much sooner than waiting 2 years for a new contract.
khans2k5 wrote:It's not a Jimmy money thing. Anyone who understands the CBA knows veteran extensions are bullshit and promote player movement because they stand to make more in Free Agency than an extension. To me it's pretty clear he's not on board with the two highest paid players not having a commitment to winning most of the rest of the team has. He doesn't want to play with KAT and Wiggins because they just don't play the way he demands his teammates play the game and they happen to be the two guys who make more money than Jimmy. If KAT acted and played like Embiid or Porzingas I don't think any of this is a problem.
What has Porzingis done?
I'm not a KAT apologist... but ripping KAT while championing Porzingis seems to be nearing "ax to grind" territory... unless I'm missing something.
Just for fun... KAT has never missed an NBA game. 250 in a row. I rarely hear that mentioned.
Just for fun... Porzingis is 7'3" and averaged 6.6 rebounds per game last season. His counting stats and his efficiency haven't met KAT standards yet.
Porzingis doesn't talk everyone's ear off with PR bullshit that KAT does. He just shows up to work to win. I wasn't using the comparison as we should have taken Porzingis over KAT. I was merely stating the way he goes about the game and his attitude are what Jimmy is looking for. And KAT is gonna have better counting stats than most everyone because that's literally what he does. Also KAT's durability is mentioned all the time. Durability doesn't make up for basketball deficiencies. 82 games of non-winning basketball doesn't outweigh 60 games of winning basketball. People don't seem to understand that. If that was the case Wiggins would be one of the best players in the game, but he'a far from it. Durability is a bonus that you hope your best players have, but I don't see people out here knocking Steph because he only played 51 games last year. What about AD? He's never played a full season so KAT must be worth more. Don't hear anyone saying that. Congrats. KAT is looking to play another 82 games this year on the way to 30 something wins. What does that accomplish?
khans2k5 wrote:It's not a Jimmy money thing. Anyone who understands the CBA knows veteran extensions are bullshit and promote player movement because they stand to make more in Free Agency than an extension. To me it's pretty clear he's not on board with the two highest paid players not having a commitment to winning most of the rest of the team has. He doesn't want to play with KAT and Wiggins because they just don't play the way he demands his teammates play the game and they happen to be the two guys who make more money than Jimmy. If KAT acted and played like Embiid or Porzingas I don't think any of this is a problem.
What has Porzingis done?
I'm not a KAT apologist... but ripping KAT while championing Porzingis seems to be nearing "ax to grind" territory... unless I'm missing something.
Just for fun... KAT has never missed an NBA game. 250 in a row. I rarely hear that mentioned.
Just for fun... Porzingis is 7'3" and averaged 6.6 rebounds per game last season. His counting stats and his efficiency haven't met KAT standards yet.
Porzingis doesn't talk everyone's ear off with PR bullshit that KAT does. He just shows up to work to win. I wasn't using the comparison as we should have taken Porzingis over KAT. I was merely stating the way he goes about the game and his attitude are what Jimmy is looking for. And KAT is gonna have better counting stats than most everyone because that's literally what he does. Also KAT's durability is mentioned all the time. Durability doesn't make up for basketball deficiencies. 82 games of non-winning basketball doesn't outweigh 60 games of winning basketball. People don't seem to understand that. If that was the case Wiggins would be one of the best players in the game, but he'a far from it. Durability is a bonus that you hope your best players have, but I don't see people out here knocking Steph because he only played 51 games last year. What about AD? He's never played a full season so KAT must be worth more. Don't hear anyone saying that. Congrats. KAT is looking to play another 82 games this year on the way to 30 something wins. What does that accomplish?
While I've been the first to ridicule KAT's PR speak... maybe it's best you just take Porzingis out of the equation. He just doesn't seem to counter your criticism toward KAT.
Winning basketball?
The Knicks have lost 50, 51, 53 games in his three seasons for chrissakes.
khans2k5 wrote:It's not a Jimmy money thing. Anyone who understands the CBA knows veteran extensions are bullshit and promote player movement because they stand to make more in Free Agency than an extension. To me it's pretty clear he's not on board with the two highest paid players not having a commitment to winning most of the rest of the team has. He doesn't want to play with KAT and Wiggins because they just don't play the way he demands his teammates play the game and they happen to be the two guys who make more money than Jimmy. If KAT acted and played like Embiid or Porzingas I don't think any of this is a problem.
What has Porzingis done?
I'm not a KAT apologist... but ripping KAT while championing Porzingis seems to be nearing "ax to grind" territory... unless I'm missing something.
Just for fun... KAT has never missed an NBA game. 250 in a row. I rarely hear that mentioned.
Just for fun... Porzingis is 7'3" and averaged 6.6 rebounds per game last season. His counting stats and his efficiency haven't met KAT standards yet.
Porzingis doesn't talk everyone's ear off with PR bullshit that KAT does. He just shows up to work to win. I wasn't using the comparison as we should have taken Porzingis over KAT. I was merely stating the way he goes about the game and his attitude are what Jimmy is looking for. And KAT is gonna have better counting stats than most everyone because that's literally what he does. Also KAT's durability is mentioned all the time. Durability doesn't make up for basketball deficiencies. 82 games of non-winning basketball doesn't outweigh 60 games of winning basketball. People don't seem to understand that. If that was the case Wiggins would be one of the best players in the game, but he'a far from it. Durability is a bonus that you hope your best players have, but I don't see people out here knocking Steph because he only played 51 games last year. What about AD? He's never played a full season so KAT must be worth more. Don't hear anyone saying that. Congrats. KAT is looking to play another 82 games this year on the way to 30 something wins. What does that accomplish?
While I've been the first to ridicule KAT's PR speak... maybe it's best you just take Porzingis out of the equation. He just doesn't seem to counter your criticism toward KAT.
Winning basketball?
The Knicks have lost 50, 51, 53 games in his three seasons for chrissakes.
And Towns was right there with him at 53 and 51 before Jimmy got here and Towns has had a significantly better supporting cast while playing every game. The Knicks were 23-26 with Porzingis last year and 6-27 without him. That's a 29% difference in winning percentage. Butler was 13% better for comparison with us. So yes I would say winning basketball based on that garbage supporting cast that was the worst team in the league when he was out. Rather than blanket apply all the losses to him maybe take some time to research how big of a difference maker he is when he plays.
khans2k5 wrote:It's not a Jimmy money thing. Anyone who understands the CBA knows veteran extensions are bullshit and promote player movement because they stand to make more in Free Agency than an extension. To me it's pretty clear he's not on board with the two highest paid players not having a commitment to winning most of the rest of the team has. He doesn't want to play with KAT and Wiggins because they just don't play the way he demands his teammates play the game and they happen to be the two guys who make more money than Jimmy. If KAT acted and played like Embiid or Porzingas I don't think any of this is a problem.
What has Porzingis done?
I'm not a KAT apologist... but ripping KAT while championing Porzingis seems to be nearing "ax to grind" territory... unless I'm missing something.
Just for fun... KAT has never missed an NBA game. 250 in a row. I rarely hear that mentioned.
Just for fun... Porzingis is 7'3" and averaged 6.6 rebounds per game last season. His counting stats and his efficiency haven't met KAT standards yet.
Porzingis doesn't talk everyone's ear off with PR bullshit that KAT does. He just shows up to work to win. I wasn't using the comparison as we should have taken Porzingis over KAT. I was merely stating the way he goes about the game and his attitude are what Jimmy is looking for. And KAT is gonna have better counting stats than most everyone because that's literally what he does. Also KAT's durability is mentioned all the time. Durability doesn't make up for basketball deficiencies. 82 games of non-winning basketball doesn't outweigh 60 games of winning basketball. People don't seem to understand that. If that was the case Wiggins would be one of the best players in the game, but he'a far from it. Durability is a bonus that you hope your best players have, but I don't see people out here knocking Steph because he only played 51 games last year. What about AD? He's never played a full season so KAT must be worth more. Don't hear anyone saying that. Congrats. KAT is looking to play another 82 games this year on the way to 30 something wins. What does that accomplish?
While I've been the first to ridicule KAT's PR speak... maybe it's best you just take Porzingis out of the equation. He just doesn't seem to counter your criticism toward KAT.
Winning basketball?
The Knicks have lost 50, 51, 53 games in his three seasons for chrissakes.
And Towns was right there with him at 53 and 51 before Jimmy got here and Towns has had a significantly better supporting cast while playing every game. The Knicks were 23-26 with Porzingis last year and 6-27 without him. That's a 29% difference in winning percentage. Butler was 13% better for comparison with us. So yes I would say winning basketball based on that garbage supporting cast that was the worst team in the league when he was out. Rather than blanket apply all the losses to him maybe take some time to research how big of a difference maker he is when he plays.
Gotcha... so one 1/2 year of winning 47% of the games with a full squad makes Porzingis a "winner"... compared to Towns 1/4 year winning 43% of the games without Butler.
khans2k5 wrote:It's not a Jimmy money thing. Anyone who understands the CBA knows veteran extensions are bullshit and promote player movement because they stand to make more in Free Agency than an extension. To me it's pretty clear he's not on board with the two highest paid players not having a commitment to winning most of the rest of the team has. He doesn't want to play with KAT and Wiggins because they just don't play the way he demands his teammates play the game and they happen to be the two guys who make more money than Jimmy. If KAT acted and played like Embiid or Porzingas I don't think any of this is a problem.
What has Porzingis done?
I'm not a KAT apologist... but ripping KAT while championing Porzingis seems to be nearing "ax to grind" territory... unless I'm missing something.
Just for fun... KAT has never missed an NBA game. 250 in a row. I rarely hear that mentioned.
Just for fun... Porzingis is 7'3" and averaged 6.6 rebounds per game last season. His counting stats and his efficiency haven't met KAT standards yet.
Porzingis doesn't talk everyone's ear off with PR bullshit that KAT does. He just shows up to work to win. I wasn't using the comparison as we should have taken Porzingis over KAT. I was merely stating the way he goes about the game and his attitude are what Jimmy is looking for. And KAT is gonna have better counting stats than most everyone because that's literally what he does. Also KAT's durability is mentioned all the time. Durability doesn't make up for basketball deficiencies. 82 games of non-winning basketball doesn't outweigh 60 games of winning basketball. People don't seem to understand that. If that was the case Wiggins would be one of the best players in the game, but he'a far from it. Durability is a bonus that you hope your best players have, but I don't see people out here knocking Steph because he only played 51 games last year. What about AD? He's never played a full season so KAT must be worth more. Don't hear anyone saying that. Congrats. KAT is looking to play another 82 games this year on the way to 30 something wins. What does that accomplish?
While I've been the first to ridicule KAT's PR speak... maybe it's best you just take Porzingis out of the equation. He just doesn't seem to counter your criticism toward KAT.
Winning basketball?
The Knicks have lost 50, 51, 53 games in his three seasons for chrissakes.
And Towns was right there with him at 53 and 51 before Jimmy got here and Towns has had a significantly better supporting cast while playing every game. The Knicks were 23-26 with Porzingis last year and 6-27 without him. That's a 29% difference in winning percentage. Butler was 13% better for comparison with us. So yes I would say winning basketball based on that garbage supporting cast that was the worst team in the league when he was out. Rather than blanket apply all the losses to him maybe take some time to research how big of a difference maker he is when he plays.
Gotcha... so one 1/2 year of winning 47% of the games with a full squad makes Porzingis a "winner"... compared to Towns 1/4 year winning 43% of the games without Butler.
Fair enough.
You "win" this one. I guess.
And Porzingis did his with the worst team in the league around him while KAT had multiple quality veterans and a former 20 PPG scorer in Wiggins. Or does that just not matter? Context doesn't matter I guess. Just the fact that Porzingis only dragged a bunch of bums to 4% better so he must not be much of a winner compared to the great KAT. Time will tell I guess now that this is KAT's team moving forward.
khans2k5 wrote:It's not a Jimmy money thing. Anyone who understands the CBA knows veteran extensions are bullshit and promote player movement because they stand to make more in Free Agency than an extension. To me it's pretty clear he's not on board with the two highest paid players not having a commitment to winning most of the rest of the team has. He doesn't want to play with KAT and Wiggins because they just don't play the way he demands his teammates play the game and they happen to be the two guys who make more money than Jimmy. If KAT acted and played like Embiid or Porzingas I don't think any of this is a problem.
What has Porzingis done?
I'm not a KAT apologist... but ripping KAT while championing Porzingis seems to be nearing "ax to grind" territory... unless I'm missing something.
Just for fun... KAT has never missed an NBA game. 250 in a row. I rarely hear that mentioned.
Just for fun... Porzingis is 7'3" and averaged 6.6 rebounds per game last season. His counting stats and his efficiency haven't met KAT standards yet.
Porzingis doesn't talk everyone's ear off with PR bullshit that KAT does. He just shows up to work to win. I wasn't using the comparison as we should have taken Porzingis over KAT. I was merely stating the way he goes about the game and his attitude are what Jimmy is looking for. And KAT is gonna have better counting stats than most everyone because that's literally what he does. Also KAT's durability is mentioned all the time. Durability doesn't make up for basketball deficiencies. 82 games of non-winning basketball doesn't outweigh 60 games of winning basketball. People don't seem to understand that. If that was the case Wiggins would be one of the best players in the game, but he'a far from it. Durability is a bonus that you hope your best players have, but I don't see people out here knocking Steph because he only played 51 games last year. What about AD? He's never played a full season so KAT must be worth more. Don't hear anyone saying that. Congrats. KAT is looking to play another 82 games this year on the way to 30 something wins. What does that accomplish?
While I've been the first to ridicule KAT's PR speak... maybe it's best you just take Porzingis out of the equation. He just doesn't seem to counter your criticism toward KAT.
Winning basketball?
The Knicks have lost 50, 51, 53 games in his three seasons for chrissakes.
And Towns was right there with him at 53 and 51 before Jimmy got here and Towns has had a significantly better supporting cast while playing every game. The Knicks were 23-26 with Porzingis last year and 6-27 without him. That's a 29% difference in winning percentage. Butler was 13% better for comparison with us. So yes I would say winning basketball based on that garbage supporting cast that was the worst team in the league when he was out. Rather than blanket apply all the losses to him maybe take some time to research how big of a difference maker he is when he plays.
Gotcha... so one 1/2 year of winning 47% of the games with a full squad makes Porzingis a "winner"... compared to Towns 1/4 year winning 43% of the games without Butler.
Fair enough.
You "win" this one. I guess.
And Porzingis did his with the worst team in the league around him while KAT had multiple quality veterans and a former 20 PPG scorer in Wiggins. Or does that just not matter? Context doesn't matter I guess. Just the fact that Porzingis only dragged a bunch of bums to 4% better so he must not be much of a winner compared to the great KAT. Time will tell I guess now that this is KAT's team moving forward.
It's cool that you have beef with KAT or criticize him. You know I don't have a problem with that.
But to herald anybody for being a better winner who hasn't even gone .500 rings far too hollow to go unnoticed. In the end, you might be right.
But that's simply not the reality right now. There are literally dozens of other, better examples you can run with instead.
