thedoper wrote:I want to dislike Rose, but he's a thoughtful communicator with a unique perspective. Gonna be pulling for him until it becomes impossible.
I feel the same way about Rose. He's sincere and open with his thoughts. I was really impressed by him today.
Ditto. 1 thing I noticed last season with rose was he was always talking with his teammates and cheering them up and giving them pointers. Even when he was still in cleveland, he was at times the only guy talking with isiah thomas. He seems like a great teammate and a positive vet guy. He know his time as the star of a team is over and seems to have accepted his role as a vet guy helping the young guys in the league.
I thought the Thibodeau/Layden portion was really awkward. Thibodeau always seems a bit uncomfortable in these settings, but today he seemed downright defensive. Thibodeau was hunched over with his hands clasped together twitching neverously as always, but the hunch was lower and more pronounced while his hands seemed clasped tighter than usual. His facial expression was strained far more than usual as he looked like he couldn't wait for the moment to end. Then he kept repeating two phrases over and over and over again like a mantra -- (1) "we won 47 games and got into the playoffs for the first time in 14 years," and (2) "there's nothing new about players asking to be traded...it's not the first time and it won't be the last...we've had players on this team ask to be traded...".
The 47 wins comment was so out of place now that the guy most responsible for the additional 16 wins is all but gone. I've always thought the "first time in 14 years" refrain was ridiculous even when he used it last Spring when Jimmy was expected to remain here. It's as if we've had the same team for 14 years, until finally Thibodeau came to the rescue and turned them into winners. I guess saying it a once or twice might be understandable, but he must have said it 6 or 7 times. Then there was the "not the first time" comment, which he must have repeated in all its variations about 12 times. Layden was in full lapdog mode, inarticulately spewing platitudes.
The only thing I liked was hearing Thibodeau say repeatedly that "we're not going to make a bad deal" when asked about trading Jimmy. And he repeatedly mentioned that the team and organization come first. He was asked about the type of players - young or vet, etc. -- they were seeking in return for Butler. He said "we have our parameters but I'm going to keep that private." Fair enough. But I am worried that Thibodeau, out to save his job, will forcus too much on the present instead of the future. In a telling moment, Thibodeau said he loves his job. It was the most sincere and heartfelt moment of his press conference. I just worry that his love of that job will blind him to the best long-term interest of this franchise as he negotiates a Butler trade. We'll know soon. But he said all the right things about the Butler situation -- "we won't make a bad deal"..."we're going to do what's best for the Timberwolves"... Jimmy's a top 10 players in the League..."
In an interesting exchange, Jon K mentioned that some teams are telling him they're having a hard time getting through to and having a dialogue with the Wolves front office about Jimmy. Layden in a prickly way asked Jon who those teams were, knowing of course that Jon couldn't reveal his sources. He and Thibodeau sort of belittled Jon a bit. But the interesting response from Layden was that those teams probably don't have the assets we'd want. In other words, Layden was essentially saying that the front office wasn't being responsive to inquiries from teams that Thibodeau and Layden believe don't have what they want. I thought it was interesting response because it pretty much acknowledged that they probably aren't communicating with some teams who want to discuss dealing for Jimmy.
lipoli390 wrote:I thought the Thibodeau/Layden portion was really awkward. Thibodeau always seems a bit uncomfortable in these settings, but today he seemed downright defensive. Thibodeau was hunched over with his hands clasped together twitching neverously as always, but the hunch was lower and more pronounced while his hands seemed clasped tighter than usual. His facial expression was strained far more than usual as he looked like he couldn't wait for the moment to end. Then he kept repeating two phrases over and over and over again like a mantra -- (1) "we won 47 games and got into the playoffs for the first time in 14 years," and (2) "there's nothing new about players asking to be traded...it's not the first time and it won't be the last...we've had players on this team ask to be traded...".
The 47 wins comment was so out of place now that the guy most responsible for the additional 16 wins is all but gone. I've always thought the "first time in 14 years" refrain was ridiculous even when he used it last Spring when Jimmy was expected to remain here. It's as if we've had the same team for 14 years, until finally Thibodeau came to the rescue and turned them into winners. I guess saying it a once or twice might be understandable, but he must have said it 6 or 7 times. Then there was the "not the first time" comment, which he must have repeated in all its variations about 12 times. Layden was in full lapdog mode, inarticulately spewing platitudes.
The only thing I liked was hearing Thibodeau say repeatedly that "we're not going to make a bad deal" when asked about trading Jimmy. And he repeatedly mentioned that the team and organization come first. He was asked about the type of players - young or vet, etc. -- they were seeking in return for Butler. He said "we have our parameters but I'm going to keep that private." Fair enough. But I am worried that Thibodeau, out to save his job, will forcus too much on the present instead of the future. In a telling moment, Thibodeau said he loves his job. It was the most sincere and heartfelt moment of his press conference. I just worry that his love of that job will blind him to the best long-term interest of this franchise as he negotiates a Butler trade. We'll know soon. But he said all the right things about the Butler situation -- "we won't make a bad deal"..."we're going to do what's best for the Timberwolves"... Jimmy's a top 10 players in the League..."
In an interesting exchange, Jon K mentioned that some teams are telling him they're having a hard time getting through to and having a dialogue with the Wolves front office about Jimmy. Layden in a prickly way asked Jon who those teams were, knowing of course that Jon couldn't reveal his sources. He and Thibodeau sort of belittled Jon a bit. But the interesting response from Layden was that those teams probably don't have the assets we'd want. In other words, Layden was essentially saying that the front office wasn't being responsive to inquiries from teams that Thibodeau and Layden believe don't have what they want. I thought it was interesting response because it pretty much acknowledged that they probably aren't communicating with some teams who want to discuss dealing for Jimmy.
I didn't think Thibs looked any worse than usual...except maybe that first few moments when he talked about Jimmy and then kinda forgot to say his 2nd point about being excited about the season or whatever. He seemed to settle in soon after that. That's the way I saw it. Just sharing my perspective as you shared yours.
I think Layden was mostly joking around with Jon K. If you noticed he makes most of his...jokes with an absolute straight face. Note that near the end he had a final jab of saying we don't talk that often and I think Inrember he had a little smirk. It was around that time Thibs (who had chucked a little during that whole exchange etc) had the quote saying something we understand you/media have your job to do etc.
To me the thing that bothered me was the Jimmy has to get his conditioning up etc. everyone probably knows it's BS but we now know Thibs is capable of saying something that isn't a complete straight shooter type thing. That's fine we get what is going on in this situation but...it's hard not to file that away in your mind. It's not uncommon for people to do that type of thing in these situations but yeah.
lipoli390 wrote:I thought the Thibodeau/Layden portion was really awkward. Thibodeau always seems a bit uncomfortable in these settings, but today he seemed downright defensive. Thibodeau was hunched over with his hands clasped together twitching neverously as always, but the hunch was lower and more pronounced while his hands seemed clasped tighter than usual. His facial expression was strained far more than usual as he looked like he couldn't wait for the moment to end. Then he kept repeating two phrases over and over and over again like a mantra -- (1) "we won 47 games and got into the playoffs for the first time in 14 years," and (2) "there's nothing new about players asking to be traded...it's not the first time and it won't be the last...we've had players on this team ask to be traded...".
The 47 wins comment was so out of place now that the guy most responsible for the additional 16 wins is all but gone. I've always thought the "first time in 14 years" refrain was ridiculous even when he used it last Spring when Jimmy was expected to remain here. It's as if we've had the same team for 14 years, until finally Thibodeau came to the rescue and turned them into winners. I guess saying it a once or twice might be understandable, but he must have said it 6 or 7 times. Then there was the "not the first time" comment, which he must have repeated in all its variations about 12 times. Layden was in full lapdog mode, inarticulately spewing platitudes.
The only thing I liked was hearing Thibodeau say repeatedly that "we're not going to make a bad deal" when asked about trading Jimmy. And he repeatedly mentioned that the team and organization come first. He was asked about the type of players - young or vet, etc. -- they were seeking in return for Butler. He said "we have our parameters but I'm going to keep that private." Fair enough. But I am worried that Thibodeau, out to save his job, will forcus too much on the present instead of the future. In a telling moment, Thibodeau said he loves his job. It was the most sincere and heartfelt moment of his press conference. I just worry that his love of that job will blind him to the best long-term interest of this franchise as he negotiates a Butler trade. We'll know soon. But he said all the right things about the Butler situation -- "we won't make a bad deal"..."we're going to do what's best for the Timberwolves"... Jimmy's a top 10 players in the League..."
In an interesting exchange, Jon K mentioned that some teams are telling him they're having a hard time getting through to and having a dialogue with the Wolves front office about Jimmy. Layden in a prickly way asked Jon who those teams were, knowing of course that Jon couldn't reveal his sources. He and Thibodeau sort of belittled Jon a bit. But the interesting response from Layden was that those teams probably don't have the assets we'd want. In other words, Layden was essentially saying that the front office wasn't being responsive to inquiries from teams that Thibodeau and Layden believe don't have what they want. I thought it was interesting response because it pretty much acknowledged that they probably aren't communicating with some teams who want to discuss dealing for Jimmy.
I didn't think Thibs looked any worse than usual...except maybe that first few moments when he talked about Jimmy and then kinda forgot to say his 2nd point about being excited about the season or whatever. He seemed to settle in soon after that. That's the way I saw it. Just sharing my perspective as you shared yours.
I think Layden was mostly joking around with Jon K. If you noticed he makes most of his...jokes with an absolute straight face. Note that near the end he had a final jab of saying we don't talk that often and I think Inrember he had a little smirk. It was around that time Thibs (who had chucked a little during that whole exchange etc) had the quote saying something we understand you/media have your job to do etc.
To me the thing that bothered me was the Jimmy has to get his conditioning up etc. everyone probably knows it's BS but we now know Thibs is capable of saying something that isn't a complete straight shooter type thing. That's fine we get what is going on in this situation but...it's hard not to file that away in your mind. It's not uncommon for people to do that type of thing in these situations but yeah.
I guess we have very different perspectives on what we both saw. That happens. Layden was his usual inarticulate self, talking but not really saying anything. Thibodeau is more articulate, but as usual he offers nothing and is so unrelatable. It's just depressing to watch these two and realize they're in charge of this multi-million dollar basketball operation. Thibodeau is a basketball lifer who should have a career as an assistant coach. He shouldn't be anywhere near the top executive position of a major organization. And Layden should be the guy who gets your coffee, gets people on the phone and files the paperwork. Well, actually, I think that is exactly what Layden does for the Wolves. :).
Watching these two guys today and considering what's unfolded over the past 5 months simply confirms my long-held view that we have a second-rate front office. Yes, there are other second-rate front offices in the NBA. But honestly I'd really like to see the Wolves finally have an elite, professional front office.
lipoli390 wrote:I thought the Thibodeau/Layden portion was really awkward. Thibodeau always seems a bit uncomfortable in these settings, but today he seemed downright defensive. Thibodeau was hunched over with his hands clasped together twitching neverously as always, but the hunch was lower and more pronounced while his hands seemed clasped tighter than usual. His facial expression was strained far more than usual as he looked like he couldn't wait for the moment to end. Then he kept repeating two phrases over and over and over again like a mantra -- (1) "we won 47 games and got into the playoffs for the first time in 14 years," and (2) "there's nothing new about players asking to be traded...it's not the first time and it won't be the last...we've had players on this team ask to be traded...".
The 47 wins comment was so out of place now that the guy most responsible for the additional 16 wins is all but gone. I've always thought the "first time in 14 years" refrain was ridiculous even when he used it last Spring when Jimmy was expected to remain here. It's as if we've had the same team for 14 years, until finally Thibodeau came to the rescue and turned them into winners. I guess saying it a once or twice might be understandable, but he must have said it 6 or 7 times. Then there was the "not the first time" comment, which he must have repeated in all its variations about 12 times. Layden was in full lapdog mode, inarticulately spewing platitudes.
The only thing I liked was hearing Thibodeau say repeatedly that "we're not going to make a bad deal" when asked about trading Jimmy. And he repeatedly mentioned that the team and organization come first. He was asked about the type of players - young or vet, etc. -- they were seeking in return for Butler. He said "we have our parameters but I'm going to keep that private." Fair enough. But I am worried that Thibodeau, out to save his job, will forcus too much on the present instead of the future. In a telling moment, Thibodeau said he loves his job. It was the most sincere and heartfelt moment of his press conference. I just worry that his love of that job will blind him to the best long-term interest of this franchise as he negotiates a Butler trade. We'll know soon. But he said all the right things about the Butler situation -- "we won't make a bad deal"..."we're going to do what's best for the Timberwolves"... Jimmy's a top 10 players in the League..."
In an interesting exchange, Jon K mentioned that some teams are telling him they're having a hard time getting through to and having a dialogue with the Wolves front office about Jimmy. Layden in a prickly way asked Jon who those teams were, knowing of course that Jon couldn't reveal his sources. He and Thibodeau sort of belittled Jon a bit. But the interesting response from Layden was that those teams probably don't have the assets we'd want. In other words, Layden was essentially saying that the front office wasn't being responsive to inquiries from teams that Thibodeau and Layden believe don't have what they want. I thought it was interesting response because it pretty much acknowledged that they probably aren't communicating with some teams who want to discuss dealing for Jimmy.
I didn't think Thibs looked any worse than usual...except maybe that first few moments when he talked about Jimmy and then kinda forgot to say his 2nd point about being excited about the season or whatever. He seemed to settle in soon after that. That's the way I saw it. Just sharing my perspective as you shared yours.
I think Layden was mostly joking around with Jon K. If you noticed he makes most of his...jokes with an absolute straight face. Note that near the end he had a final jab of saying we don't talk that often and I think Inrember he had a little smirk. It was around that time Thibs (who had chucked a little during that whole exchange etc) had the quote saying something we understand you/media have your job to do etc.
To me the thing that bothered me was the Jimmy has to get his conditioning up etc. everyone probably knows it's BS but we now know Thibs is capable of saying something that isn't a complete straight shooter type thing. That's fine we get what is going on in this situation but...it's hard not to file that away in your mind. It's not uncommon for people to do that type of thing in these situations but yeah.
I guess we have very different perspectives on what we both saw. That happens. Layden was his usual inarticulate self, talking but not really saying anything. Thibodeau is more articulate, but as usual he offers nothing and is so unrelatable. It's just depressing to watch these two and realize they're in charge of this multi-million dollar basketball operation. Thibodeau is a basketball lifer who should have a career as an assistant coach. He shouldn't be anywhere near the top executive position of a major organization. And Layden should be the guy who gets your coffee, gets people on the phone and files the paperwork. Well, actually, I think that is exactly what Layden does for the Wolves. :).
Watching these two guys today and considering what's unfolded over the past 5 months simply confirms my long-held view that we have a second-rate front office. Yes, there are other second-rate front offices in the NBA. But honestly I'd really like to see the Wolves finally have an elite, professional front office.
I think aspects of them may be 2nd tier, but I believe in Thibs evaluation of basketball talent. It's really the one area I don't question as much. I understand the general anxiety about his system as a coach etc. But I'm confident they'll at least take the best deal they can for this one from a talent perspective.
lipoli390 wrote:I thought the Thibodeau/Layden portion was really awkward. Thibodeau always seems a bit uncomfortable in these settings, but today he seemed downright defensive. Thibodeau was hunched over with his hands clasped together twitching neverously as always, but the hunch was lower and more pronounced while his hands seemed clasped tighter than usual. His facial expression was strained far more than usual as he looked like he couldn't wait for the moment to end. Then he kept repeating two phrases over and over and over again like a mantra -- (1) "we won 47 games and got into the playoffs for the first time in 14 years," and (2) "there's nothing new about players asking to be traded...it's not the first time and it won't be the last...we've had players on this team ask to be traded...".
The 47 wins comment was so out of place now that the guy most responsible for the additional 16 wins is all but gone. I've always thought the "first time in 14 years" refrain was ridiculous even when he used it last Spring when Jimmy was expected to remain here. It's as if we've had the same team for 14 years, until finally Thibodeau came to the rescue and turned them into winners. I guess saying it a once or twice might be understandable, but he must have said it 6 or 7 times. Then there was the "not the first time" comment, which he must have repeated in all its variations about 12 times. Layden was in full lapdog mode, inarticulately spewing platitudes.
The only thing I liked was hearing Thibodeau say repeatedly that "we're not going to make a bad deal" when asked about trading Jimmy. And he repeatedly mentioned that the team and organization come first. He was asked about the type of players - young or vet, etc. -- they were seeking in return for Butler. He said "we have our parameters but I'm going to keep that private." Fair enough. But I am worried that Thibodeau, out to save his job, will forcus too much on the present instead of the future. In a telling moment, Thibodeau said he loves his job. It was the most sincere and heartfelt moment of his press conference. I just worry that his love of that job will blind him to the best long-term interest of this franchise as he negotiates a Butler trade. We'll know soon. But he said all the right things about the Butler situation -- "we won't make a bad deal"..."we're going to do what's best for the Timberwolves"... Jimmy's a top 10 players in the League..."
In an interesting exchange, Jon K mentioned that some teams are telling him they're having a hard time getting through to and having a dialogue with the Wolves front office about Jimmy. Layden in a prickly way asked Jon who those teams were, knowing of course that Jon couldn't reveal his sources. He and Thibodeau sort of belittled Jon a bit. But the interesting response from Layden was that those teams probably don't have the assets we'd want. In other words, Layden was essentially saying that the front office wasn't being responsive to inquiries from teams that Thibodeau and Layden believe don't have what they want. I thought it was interesting response because it pretty much acknowledged that they probably aren't communicating with some teams who want to discuss dealing for Jimmy.
I didn't think Thibs looked any worse than usual...except maybe that first few moments when he talked about Jimmy and then kinda forgot to say his 2nd point about being excited about the season or whatever. He seemed to settle in soon after that. That's the way I saw it. Just sharing my perspective as you shared yours.
I think Layden was mostly joking around with Jon K. If you noticed he makes most of his...jokes with an absolute straight face. Note that near the end he had a final jab of saying we don't talk that often and I think Inrember he had a little smirk. It was around that time Thibs (who had chucked a little during that whole exchange etc) had the quote saying something we understand you/media have your job to do etc.
To me the thing that bothered me was the Jimmy has to get his conditioning up etc. everyone probably knows it's BS but we now know Thibs is capable of saying something that isn't a complete straight shooter type thing. That's fine we get what is going on in this situation but...it's hard not to file that away in your mind. It's not uncommon for people to do that type of thing in these situations but yeah.
I guess we have very different perspectives on what we both saw. That happens. Layden was his usual inarticulate self, talking but not really saying anything. Thibodeau is more articulate, but as usual he offers nothing and is so unrelatable. It's just depressing to watch these two and realize they're in charge of this multi-million dollar basketball operation. Thibodeau is a basketball lifer who should have a career as an assistant coach. He shouldn't be anywhere near the top executive position of a major organization. And Layden should be the guy who gets your coffee, gets people on the phone and files the paperwork. Well, actually, I think that is exactly what Layden does for the Wolves. :).
Watching these two guys today and considering what's unfolded over the past 5 months simply confirms my long-held view that we have a second-rate front office. Yes, there are other second-rate front offices in the NBA. But honestly I'd really like to see the Wolves finally have an elite, professional front office.
I think aspects of them may be 2nd tier, but I believe in Thibs evaluation of basketball talent. It's really the one area I don't question as much. I understand the general anxiety about his system as a coach etc. But I'm confident they'll at least take the best deal they can for this one from a talent perspective.
You might be right about Thibodeau as a talent evaluator. But I'm not sure I've seen any clear evidence that he excels in that area. He initially came to MN because, in his words, we "had the best young talent in the NBA." Was he right? He drafted Dunn the next year. He gave Gorgui a big contract and then referred to him as the most improved player on the team. Then he traded Dunn, a lottery pick and one of the three young talents he raved about for Butler. He then drafted Patton over John Collins and Anunoby. I'm not suggesting those were all bad moves or examples of poor talent evaluation, but I don't see any of those moves as indicative someone particularly good at evaluating talent. On the other hand, I haven't seen any evidence that he's terrible in that area -- like David Kahn signing Darko and comparing his passing to Vladi. I liked his two picks this past summer, but we'll have to see how they pan out.
I do think, however, that he's an honest, straight-up guy. I have no doubt he works his tail off. He has good qualities and is certainly much better than David Kahn or Rambis in the roles respective roles they once held not too long ago.
I finally saw the rest of the interviews. I have three main take-aways from what I watched:
1. Thibodeau will likely remain as the Wolves head coach at least through the first half of the season. That's the vibe I got today. And with so many former Bulls players now on the roster, it would seem odd to fire Thibs at this point.
2. I really like all our guys. Towns is well-spoken and humble. Wiggins seems like a good guy. Tyus is super smart and has a great presence. Gorgui is a stand-up guy who is really smart and probably a great teammate. Luol Deng really impressed me. A great demeanor and intelligent. I can see him being a coach or GM some day. I thought Gorgui's responses were the most interesting. When asked to evaluate his performance last season, he did what no other Wolves player did and said it wasn't good. Refreshing. I continue to believe that Gorgui is worth keeping, even at his salary. He should be in the starting lineup and get more minutes, both of which would optimize his performance on the court.
3. Thibodeau is struggling with what just happened. He kept his cool and fell back on his various mantras to get through the Butler-related questions. But you could tell this has really hit him hard. He was counting on Jimmy to help ensure another playoff birth and possibly go further. Now Jimmy is on his way out. And he has to feel some sense of betrayal by a guy who Thibs thought was his guy and fully in sync with him. If nothing else, I would think Thibodeau is embarrassed by what happened with Jimmy. You could see his usual brovado absent when the press conference started, although he got some of it back by the end.
