Minnesota Sports Forum

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:OKC - 46 - 34
SAS - 46 - 34
NOP - 46 - 34
MIN - 45 - 35
DEN - 45 - 35

TONIGHT'S ACTION:

Memphis @ Wolves. Memphis beat Minnesota 2x already when TRYING TO LOSE. They have no reason to lose this game... they're already guaranteed the 2nd best ping pong odds. But they're on the 2nd night of a back-to-back. I wouldn't be surprised to see Gasol sitting for much of this one. For the Wolves, Jimmy Butler is back. It was obvious immediately what he brings to the Wolves. If watching the guy willing to chase down breakaway layups with 1 minute left in a 20-point win (earlier this season) doesn't inspire guys like KAT and Wiggins... nothing ever will. I think the Wolves put this one away early.

Portland @ Denver. On paper... both teams have something to play for here. But Denver's playoff lives trumps dropping from #3 to #4 for Portland. I think Denver wins their final home game of the regular season... and 6th in a row in this one. But I'm not against a Portland win and a Wolves win to clinch it tonight.

OKC @ Miami. After OKC beat Golden State, they might already be in... if not... they close with Memphis at home. So... consider them in. The East was interesting too. Well, in the lengths teams #6, #7 and #8 were doing to avoid Cleveland in Round 1. For example... Miami lost by 24 to NY. And Wash lost to Atlanta at home. And Milwaukee lost to Brooklyn over the weekend. Now that CLE is #4... all four can breath again. Although... it can be argued #7 vs. BOS is the sweet spot. Miami needs to lose to get there. So...


[Note: For the growing group of "Miss the Playoffs so we can Fire Thibs" folks around here... that won't happen if the Wolves lose to the Nuggets Wednesday. But your best bet is for the Wolves to lose to this terrible Grizzlies team for the 3rd time. So start rooting now for the wolves to lose THIS game. It's your only hope to ditch Thibs.]

But is it? If both Denver and Minnesota win tonight, and then Denver beats us on Wednesday, Denver finishes with 47 wins to our 46 and gets the 8th spot. Correct? And conversely, the Wolves could make the playoffs even if they lost to Memphis tonight, because by beating Denver then on Wednesday both teams would have 46 wins...and I believe we win the tie breaker. So as I look at it, Wednesday is still the deciding game as to whether the Wolves make it or not.

My point was that losing to Denver to miss the playoffs won't be enough. I should have added a "too" or "and the Nuggets" to make it more clear.

longstrangetrip wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:OKC - 46 - 34
SAS - 46 - 34
NOP - 46 - 34
MIN - 45 - 35
DEN - 45 - 35

TONIGHT'S ACTION:

Memphis @ Wolves. Memphis beat Minnesota 2x already when TRYING TO LOSE. They have no reason to lose this game... they're already guaranteed the 2nd best ping pong odds. But they're on the 2nd night of a back-to-back. I wouldn't be surprised to see Gasol sitting for much of this one. For the Wolves, Jimmy Butler is back. It was obvious immediately what he brings to the Wolves. If watching the guy willing to chase down breakaway layups with 1 minute left in a 20-point win (earlier this season) doesn't inspire guys like KAT and Wiggins... nothing ever will. I think the Wolves put this one away early.

Portland @ Denver. On paper... both teams have something to play for here. But Denver's playoff lives trumps dropping from #3 to #4 for Portland. I think Denver wins their final home game of the regular season... and 6th in a row in this one. But I'm not against a Portland win and a Wolves win to clinch it tonight.

OKC @ Miami. After OKC beat Golden State, they might already be in... if not... they close with Memphis at home. So... consider them in. The East was interesting too. Well, in the lengths teams #6, #7 and #8 were doing to avoid Cleveland in Round 1. For example... Miami lost by 24 to NY. And Wash lost to Atlanta at home. And Milwaukee lost to Brooklyn over the weekend. Now that CLE is #4... all four can breath again. Although... it can be argued #7 vs. BOS is the sweet spot. Miami needs to lose to get there. So...


[Note: For the growing group of "Miss the Playoffs so we can Fire Thibs" folks around here... that won't happen if the Wolves lose to the Nuggets Wednesday. But your best bet is for the Wolves to lose to this terrible Grizzlies team for the 3rd time. So start rooting now for the wolves to lose THIS game. It's your only hope to ditch Thibs.]

But is it? If both Denver and Minnesota win tonight, and then Denver beats us on Wednesday, Denver finishes with 47 wins to our 46 and gets the 8th spot. Correct? And conversely, the Wolves could make the playoffs even if they lost to Memphis tonight, because by beating Denver then on Wednesday both teams would have 46 wins...and I believe we win the tie breaker. So as I look at it, Wednesday is still the deciding game as to whether the Wolves make it or not.

My point was that losing to Denver to miss the playoffs won't be enough. I should have added a "too" or "and the Nuggets" to make it more clear.

I think you're missing my point, abe, and I don't want the others to be confused. I think losing to the Nuggets Wednesday night IS enough for us to miss the playoffs, regardless of whether we beat Memphis or not. A loss to the Nugs leaves us at 46 wins, and they will have at least that many wins if they beat us...and they own the tiebreaker. That's why I keep saying it's all about the Wednesday game, because a loss to Denver ensures being in the lottery.

longstrangetrip wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:OKC - 46 - 34
SAS - 46 - 34
NOP - 46 - 34
MIN - 45 - 35
DEN - 45 - 35

TONIGHT'S ACTION:

Memphis @ Wolves. Memphis beat Minnesota 2x already when TRYING TO LOSE. They have no reason to lose this game... they're already guaranteed the 2nd best ping pong odds. But they're on the 2nd night of a back-to-back. I wouldn't be surprised to see Gasol sitting for much of this one. For the Wolves, Jimmy Butler is back. It was obvious immediately what he brings to the Wolves. If watching the guy willing to chase down breakaway layups with 1 minute left in a 20-point win (earlier this season) doesn't inspire guys like KAT and Wiggins... nothing ever will. I think the Wolves put this one away early.

Portland @ Denver. On paper... both teams have something to play for here. But Denver's playoff lives trumps dropping from #3 to #4 for Portland. I think Denver wins their final home game of the regular season... and 6th in a row in this one. But I'm not against a Portland win and a Wolves win to clinch it tonight.

OKC @ Miami. After OKC beat Golden State, they might already be in... if not... they close with Memphis at home. So... consider them in. The East was interesting too. Well, in the lengths teams #6, #7 and #8 were doing to avoid Cleveland in Round 1. For example... Miami lost by 24 to NY. And Wash lost to Atlanta at home. And Milwaukee lost to Brooklyn over the weekend. Now that CLE is #4... all four can breath again. Although... it can be argued #7 vs. BOS is the sweet spot. Miami needs to lose to get there. So...


[Note: For the growing group of "Miss the Playoffs so we can Fire Thibs" folks around here... that won't happen if the Wolves lose to the Nuggets Wednesday. But your best bet is for the Wolves to lose to this terrible Grizzlies team for the 3rd time. So start rooting now for the wolves to lose THIS game. It's your only hope to ditch Thibs.]

But is it? If both Denver and Minnesota win tonight, and then Denver beats us on Wednesday, Denver finishes with 47 wins to our 46 and gets the 8th spot. Correct? And conversely, the Wolves could make the playoffs even if they lost to Memphis tonight, because by beating Denver then on Wednesday both teams would have 46 wins...and I believe we win the tie breaker. So as I look at it, Wednesday is still the deciding game as to whether the Wolves make it or not.

My point was that losing to Denver to miss the playoffs won't be enough. I should have added a "too" or "and the Nuggets" to make it more clear.

I think you're missing my point, abe, and I don't want the others to be confused. I think losing to the Nuggets Wednesday night IS enough for us to miss the playoffs, regardless of whether we beat Memphis or not. A loss to the Nugs leaves us at 46 wins, and they will have at least that many wins if they beat us...and they own the tiebreaker. That's why I keep saying it's all about the Wednesday game, because a loss to Denver ensures being in the lottery.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Thibs should be fired simply for how hard this team is to watch. Consider:

1) The slow pace
2) Tired 4th quarter legs
3) Jamal jacking up jump shot after jump shot after predictable dribbling moves to get free
4) Painful Iso ball possession after possession
5) Not playing to the strength of your players - shackling them
6) Not defending the 3 point line
7) His own constant theatrics on the sideline
8) Some of his players complaining after every call

So even though this is our best record in some 14 years, I'd gladly give it back if we could get a fresh start. Like I've said before, we've squandered our assets and put a ceiling on how good we can get. And that ceiling certainly is not the NBA finals. The whole thing sucks.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Thibs should be fired simply for how hard this team is to watch. Consider:

1) The slow pace
2) Tired 4th quarter legs
3) Jamal jacking up jump shot after jump shot after predictable dribbling moves to get free
4) Painful Iso ball possession after possession
5) Not playing to the strength of your players - shackling them
6) Not defending the 3 point line
7) His own constant theatrics on the sideline
8) Some of his players complaining after every call

So even though this is our best record in some 14 years, I'd gladly give it back if we could get a fresh start. Like I've said before, we've squandered our assets and put a ceiling on how good we can get. And that ceiling certainly is not the NBA finals. The whole thing sucks.

Won't dispute any of that. But...

1) $24M
2) The best record in 14 years.
3) Butler's injury.
4) Right or wrong... Thibs carried a lot of weight/credibility around the league as recently as 9 months ago. While there are alarming signs he still coaches like it's 2011... does his reputation help him? Because remember... EVERYBODY thinks the Wolves are a shitshow. It's indisputable. And to be honest... giving Wiggins $150M along with a declaration that he promises to try harder... is pretty amateurish from an owner already owning A LOT of terrible decisions in the past.
5) What does Butler want? Because this is STILL a 30 - 35-win team without him. And he could start angling for his next destination very very soon.

I'd prefer another coach for this team. In part, because I don't see Thibs as a guy willing/capable of significant change. I also don't see him reaching KAT/Wiggins in the way that's necessary to get them to superstar status.

I just don't think it's happening this summer -- unless Taylor goes against conventional wisdom and the safer route.

longstrangetrip wrote:Thanks for the clarification about Abe's point regarding losing to Memphis, khans and abe...I'm a little slow this week :(.

Good summary of the factors supporting and negating firing Thibs this summer. I'll only add what I posted above...that I learned last month that Glen is enormously unhappy with Thibs for several reasons, and that there is a better than 50/50 chance of his departure if we miss the playoffs. I think this is all academic, though, because I expect a win on Wednesday...Denver is a poor road team, and the Wolves are an entirely different team with Butler on the court.

Such an interesting finish to the season with so many teams jammed together. Utah could finish 3rd if they go 2-0, or 8th or 9th if they go 0-2...bizarre! We're all focusing on the OkC game in Miami as our possible savior to not play Houston, but there are two other outcomes that can help us too:

1) As mentioned above, Utah going 0-2 could help us...and it's not preposterous that they lose to both GS and Portland (although I expect them to win both and finish 3rd).

2) The Pelicans losing to the clippers. Not likely, but we do win a tiebreaker with them if we finish tied.

I will be cheering for Miami to beat OkC, the Clippers to beat the Pelicans (at home BTW), and for Utah to go 0-2. Any one of those outcomes could be very good for the Wolves.