Lillard Doubtful Tomorrow

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

The bad start doesn't need to be rationalized to make sense. Our 3 best players are 21 on their 3rd coach in 3 years having to learn to play yet another different way with no veteran leaders and few productive veteran players on the roster. To be honest we all should have seen this coming.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

The bad start doesn't need to be rationalized to make sense. Our 3 best players are 21 on their 3rd coach in 3 years having to learn to play yet another different way with no veteran leaders and few productive veteran players on the roster. To be honest we all should have seen this coming.

Agreed, and several reasons why I didn't foresee this was:

1. I expected Karl-Anthony Towns to be better than he is this season. I especially thought he would be better defensively, but that's clearly going to be a work in progress. He's been better lately, but not good enough.

2. I didn't think Brandon Rush was a big addition by any means, but I thought he was going to provide some useful minutes off the bench. He hasn't been productive at all. Add him to Q's list of good shooters that can't shoot anymore when they're acquired by Minnesota.

3. I couldn't have predicted the regression we've seen from Ricky Rubio. In almost every aspect of the game, I think he's been clearly worse than last year. Some here like to call him the straw that stirs the drink (or whatever), but he has been more like the nail that punctures and flattens your tire.

[Coolbreeze44]

The bad start doesn't need to be rationalized to make sense. Our 3 best players are 21 on their 3rd coach in 3 years having to learn to play yet another different way with no veteran leaders and few productive veteran players on the roster. To be honest we all should have seen this coming.

Agreed, and several reasons why I didn't foresee this was:

1. I expected Karl-Anthony Towns to be better than he is this season. I especially thought he would be better defensively, but that's clearly going to be a work in progress. He's been better lately, but not good enough.

2. I didn't think Brandon Rush was a big addition by any means, but I thought he was going to provide some useful minutes off the bench. He hasn't been productive at all. Add him to Q's list of good shooters that can't shoot anymore when they're acquired by Minnesota.

3. I couldn't have predicted the regression we've seen from Ricky Rubio. In almost every aspect of the game, I think he's been clearly worse than last year. Some here like to call him the straw that stirs the drink (or whatever), but he has been more like the nail that punctures and flattens your tire.

I agree with both of you. And I feel a little embarrassed because I should have seen this coming. However one thing I believed was the first half of the year was going to be poor relative to the 2nd half. So I still have some hope we will see better basketball this season. I still think there is a thin line separating this team from how they are playing today, to winning a lot more games. If this keeps up for the entire season we probably have bigger problems than I want to believe.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Some fair points from Khans and Cam, but I still struggle to get on board with their conclusions.

Khans talks about our struggles being due to the youth of our stars, and I don't necessarily disagree. But it still doesn't explain what some of us have asked on occasion: why did our three 20-year-olds look like they were starting to get it in the .500 days at the end of last season, but now look more like rookies in a dreadful .324 pace almost halfway through this season?

Cam talks about the regression of KAT and Ricky and the poor shooting of Rush as contributing factors in the poor start to the season, and I agree that they are critical factors. But the question is this: why have these three things happened? And this is where Cam and I disagree. Except for Ricky's elbow injury, I think Thibs' coaching has been a major factor in all three:

KAT: Lip and I have both noted KAT's rabbit ears when Thibs is yelling at him. Is it not reasonable to at least consider whether this constant sideline interference is hurting KAT more than helping?

Ricky: We've all noticed how Thibs has used Ricky differently than Sam and Flip did. Is it not reasonable to consider whether Thibs' use of Rubio has had an impact on his poor play this year?

Rush: 3-point shooters need volume and minutes to be effective...they will all say that. Can we really expect Rush to have any rhythm or success when Thibs has only given him 120 minutes all season? I recognize that some of his limited time is due to injury, but that doesn't explain all of it. No other coach has ever played Rush so sparingly in his entire career, even when he played on much better teams. Again Thibs is an outlier, and needs to look in the mirror and think about whether his outlying theories are working or not. You know what my opinion is.

[Hicks123 [enjin:6700838]]

Not sure what to think. I think the coach is certainly impacting the team, but not sure how as of yet.

Here is what I personally feel regarding the players discussed above:

If KAT is struggling because Thibs is a bit hard on him, then he simply isn't going to be the player I want him (or expect him) to be. Thibs isn't the first guy to be seen as an intense coach. We talk about him like he is the only coach that yells on the floor. There are many guys like him. Heck, I see coaches like this at the 6th grade A level basketball. Some worse. Personally, I think KAT is still just a young player and developing in several areas. I am not at all worried about his long-term prognosis. He will be a stud.

Rush. Never was a good player. Serves a purpose on a better team as a bench shooter....just not good enough to provide meaningful minutes on a developing team like the Wolves. Same as Aldrich. I wouldn't have spent the money as they are both middling players who don't build to any extra wins. These spots should be handled by vet min guys.

Rubio. I wish I could get behind this guy, as he is such a likable dude. But he is simply not good enough to lead this team. I think both Cam and LST bring up good points. I am firmly in the Cam camp on Rubio, but I will add my thoughts on LST's comments. I think the points you make are extremely valid...and I believe this is a big concern. This year has really pointed out Ricky's flaws even more than in years past. He is absolutely unable to adapt to a different style of play due to his massive scoring/shooting deficiencies. Some act like his other attributes make up for his shortcomings, but many of us simply don't agree. He is 8th in assists...not bad...but all of those players above him (less Draymon) are averaging somewhere between 2x-4x his ppg. When the PG can score, it makes the team more dynamic, plain and simple. In fact, I would say that if you measured number of assists per passes (or some weird stat), Rubio would be fairly poor. I mean, the guy looks to pass every play....how is he not averaging 15 assists when our team scores so much and he never shoots?

Regarding our late season progress a year ago....not sure about that. Someone mentioned that our defense was better. I don't know...we seemed to give up a TON of points during that last 20 games just looking at the box scores...we just had some crazy scoring outburts as well. Both last seasons late surge and this seasons slow start are a bit baffling.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Some fair points from Khans and Cam, but I still struggle to get on board with their conclusions.

Khans talks about our struggles being due to the youth of our stars, and I don't necessarily disagree. But it still doesn't explain what some of us have asked on occasion: why did our three 20-year-olds look like they were starting to get it in the .500 days at the end of last season, but now look more like rookies in a dreadful .324 pace almost halfway through this season?

Cam talks about the regression of KAT and Ricky and the poor shooting of Rush as contributing factors in the poor start to the season, and I agree that they are critical factors. But the question is this: why have these three things happened? And this is where Cam and I disagree. Except for Ricky's elbow injury, I think Thibs' coaching has been a major factor in all three:

KAT: Lip and I have both noted KAT's rabbit ears when Thibs is yelling at him. Is it not reasonable to at least consider whether this constant sideline interference is hurting KAT more than helping?

Ricky: We've all noticed how Thibs has used Ricky differently than Sam and Flip did. Is it not reasonable to consider whether Thibs' use of Rubio has had an impact on his poor play this year?

Rush: 3-point shooters need volume and minutes to be effective...they will all say that. Can we really expect Rush to have any rhythm or success when Thibs has only given him 120 minutes all season? I recognize that some of his limited time is due to injury, but that doesn't explain all of it. No other coach has ever played Rush so sparingly in his entire career, even when he played on much better teams. Again Thibs is an outlier, and needs to look in the mirror and think about whether his outlying theories are working or not. You know what my opinion is.

If it took Sam most of the season to get them to play that way, why does Thibs not get the same time frame? He's a different coach with a different system than Sam. I don't know why you guys were just expecting us to be good during the adjustment period even through the struggles that would come with youth and a new coach and system. I don't get the attitude that they were just supposed to carry over seamlessly from the last 2 months to this season. If it took them most of the year to figure out how to play under Sam isn't it reasonable to think it will take the same time to figure out how to play under Thibs?

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Not sure what to think. I think the coach is certainly impacting the team, but not sure how as of yet.

Here is what I personally feel regarding the players discussed above:

If KAT is struggling because Thibs is a bit hard on him, then he simply isn't going to be the player I want him (or expect him) to be. Thibs isn't the first guy to be seen as an intense coach. We talk about him like he is the only coach that yells on the floor. There are many guys like him. Heck, I see coaches like this at the 6th grade A level basketball. Some worse. Personally, I think KAT is still just a young player and developing in several areas. I am not at all worried about his long-term prognosis. He will be a stud.

Rush. Never was a good player. Serves a purpose on a better team as a bench shooter....just not good enough to provide meaningful minutes on a developing team like the Wolves. Same as Aldrich. I wouldn't have spent the money as they are both middling players who don't build to any extra wins. These spots should be handled by vet min guys.

Rubio. I wish I could get behind this guy, as he is such a likable dude. But he is simply not good enough to lead this team. I think both Cam and LST bring up good points. I am firmly in the Cam camp on Rubio, but I will add my thoughts on LST's comments. I think the points you make are extremely valid...and I believe this is a big concern. This year has really pointed out Ricky's flaws even more than in years past. He is absolutely unable to adapt to a different style of play due to his massive scoring/shooting deficiencies. Some act like his other attributes make up for his shortcomings, but many of us simply don't agree. He is 8th in assists...not bad...but all of those players above him (less Draymon) are averaging somewhere between 2x-4x his ppg. When the PG can score, it makes the team more dynamic, plain and simple. In fact, I would say that if you measured number of assists per passes (or some weird stat), Rubio would be fairly poor. I mean, the guy looks to pass every play....how is he not averaging 15 assists when our team scores so much and he never shoots?

Regarding our late season progress a year ago....not sure about that. Someone mentioned that our defense was better. I don't know...we seemed to give up a TON of points during that last 20 games just looking at the box scores...we just had some crazy scoring outburts as well. Both last seasons late surge and this seasons slow start are a bit baffling.

Hicks, There actually is such a stat out there and this year Rubio is relatively poor. That's because a lot of his passes are made by simply bringing the ball up and then handing it off to Wiggins or LaVine to initiate the offensive set. Those passes aren't meant to lead to shots.

If you look at last year, he was 5th among PGs in assist to pass ratio. He was behind only Westbrook, Paul, Rondo, and Wall among starting PGs.

[thedoper]

How can we blame Thibs for Ricky's regression on D?

I can see the point of Thibs affecting Ricky's game on offense, but our struggles have been on the defensive side of the ball. This is where Ricky was supposed to excel. He has not. Likewise the word on KAT was that he was supposed to have limitless defensive potential, hasn't materialized either. I find it hard to believe that Thibs bears the responsibility on this side of the ball.

[Monster]

Part of why I was uncertain before the season started about the Wolves making the playoffs was Every team in the WC looked like it had some legit talent to be competitive. That's played out to some extent and not in some ways. Other than one game against Memphis for the Wolves there are no cupcakes in the NBA this year. Even before when the Sixers were throwing out their d-league squads in the past they still somehow won a couple games against good teams. I don't see a significant separation right now between the WC teams with a losing record. They all have talent of some kind. The good news is that group is even larger than I thought it was with Dallas, Portland and to some extent NO faltering.

This team is 5-6 after that pathetic showing against the Pistons. It could be better but for me it's good enough to get going in the right direction. They can still make a run this month to get past a couple teams and gain some ground on teams nearer the top. They aren't going to sweep every team that's sorta in their range of mediocrity. That's not realistic. Play .500 ball or better and get a couple win streaks rolling in a few weeks and they have a shot. I'm not going to throw in the towel just because they lose a game I felt was a more winnable game against a team they would gain more ground on.