Minnesota Sports Forum

BizarroJerry wrote:LST, you're always complaining about Wiggys bad rebounding numbers, do you know what our team rebounding advantage or disadvantage was during the second half of the season?

Objection...counsel is leading the witness!

I didn't look it up, but I'm guessing the Wolves were an average rebounding team for the season and perhaps an above average rebounding team the last half of the season. So they're good enough. But that doesn't change the fact that Wig ranks in the bottom 10% of all SFs in rebounding. If they are an average rebounding team with Wig at SF, it's logical to assume they could be a dominant rebounding team with Wig at SG and a better rebounder at SF.

But that said, we don't have another suitable starting option at SF, so it has to be Wig. I largely agree with the rotations Lip lays out above, but Wig still may end up with substantial minutes at SG if Thibs finds someone he likes at SF (Belly, Rush, Bazz?). Dunn and Wig both have enormous potential at SG, but each lacks one skill generally considered important for a SG...outside shooting for Dunn and ball handling for Wig. As much as I would love to see Wig at SG, I guess it's reasonable to conclude that it's easier for Dunn to either improve his deficiency or work around it than it is for Wig.

A quick glance shows MN had about the same number of rebounds as its opponent. But based on my memory of the team struggling to rebound early in the season... and Bizarro's specific mention of only the 2nd half of the season... I assume the Wolves made up ground as the year went along.

That doesn't detract from Wiggins being a poor rebounder though.

Wiggins doesn't fight teammates for rebounds. He's not into numbers. He's still very young and hasn't developed his "man" strength yet. But one thing I can tell you is this: When it's mano a mano with the opponent, and he wants/needs to grab a board he typically goes and gets it. The numbers don't always tell the whole story.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Wiggins doesn't fight teammates for rebounds. He's not into numbers. He's still very young and hasn't developed his "man" strength yet. But one thing I can tell you is this: When it's mano a mano with the opponent, and he wants/needs to grab a board he typically goes and gets it. The numbers don't always tell the whole story.

There are some less-than-tangible takes... but a whole lot of assumptions and conjecture in this brief post.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Wiggins doesn't fight teammates for rebounds. He's not into numbers. He's still very young and hasn't developed his "man" strength yet. But one thing I can tell you is this: When it's mano a mano with the opponent, and he wants/needs to grab a board he typically goes and gets it. The numbers don't always tell the whole story.

There are some less-than-tangible takes... but a whole lot of assumptions and conjecture in this brief post.

Granted. But isn't a little conjecture on this board good? So many of our discussions are based on black and white stats/metrics - many of which are routinely misapplied. Personally, I'd like a little more subjective analysis.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Wiggins doesn't fight teammates for rebounds. He's not into numbers. He's still very young and hasn't developed his "man" strength yet. But one thing I can tell you is this: When it's mano a mano with the opponent, and he wants/needs to grab a board he typically goes and gets it. The numbers don't always tell the whole story.

There are some less-than-tangible takes... but a whole lot of assumptions and conjecture in this brief post.

Granted. But isn't a little conjecture on this board good? So many of our discussions are based on black and white stats/metrics - many of which are routinely misapplied. Personally, I'd like a little more subjective analysis.

As long as those who offer up purely subjective analysis are cool when it's refuted with more substantiated takes...

I guess my point was what cool was saying, numbers don't tell the whole story. Rebound average is a lot easier to improve than shooting percentage. Just box out better and go after more balls. But we don't want 5 guys crashing the boards either.

There some interesting numbers on nba.com regarding rebounds. Wiggins' ratio of contested/uncontested rebs is 40/60, Bazz is 39/61, a known stats hunter like Rondo is 16/84 and averages less contested boards than Wiggins and Bazz despite almost doubling their total rebounds averages. Kevin Love is 31/69 btw.

http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/rebounding/?sort=REB_CONTEST&dir=1

actually this table doesn't show Love in favorable light. Very low % of contested boards compared to other rebounders.

Brooklyn_Wolves wrote:There some interesting numbers on nba.com regarding rebounds. Wiggins' ratio of contested/uncontested rebs is 40/60, Bazz is 39/61, a known stats hunter like Rondo is 16/84 and averages less contested boards than Wiggins and Bazz despite almost doubling their total rebounds averages. Kevin Love is 31/69 btw.

http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/rebounding/?sort=REB_CONTEST&dir=1

actually this table doesn't show Love in favorable light. Very low % of contested boards compared to other rebounders.

Thanks Brooklyn. Just proving my point what an overrated stat RPG is. Look at uncontested rebounds as a percentage of total rebounds, it's over 50%, so over half the RPG is just falling into their hands.

We can argue all day long about Wiggins' rebounding prowess or lack thereof. But what matter is the fact that Thibs has publicly expressed disappointment in Wiggins' rebounding and has said it has to improve. So we'll see if it does. Note that Butler's rebounding improved under Thibs, so I'm not dismissing the possibility of Wiggins significantly improving in that department.