Minnesota Sports Forum

"Dubs" is in reference to Bojan Dubljevic, who's a promising 24-year old Montenegrin PF/C overseas. Named a Rising Star just a year or so ago. 6'10, 245 lb banger in the post, limited athleticism and length, great strength and base, with proven three-point range. Drafted by Minnesota 59th overall in 2013. I'm a big fan.

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Why be such a downer in a tribute thread? :)

Like others have said Lavine may be the true genius of Flip but I think he should get credit for some of the other moves people may describe as luck. Some people may have made a quicker move with Love but I think it's possible Flip himself being from Cleveland had some indication what Lebron was going to do. It sure seemed that way based on something he said or how he said it on the funkadelic before Lebron to Cleveland transpired. Lebron to the Cavs was lucky but Flip played that pretty well.

What has not really been mentioned here that may be as significant as anything (especially if you are just going with the ho hum luck thing) is Flip had a vision and he actually executed it. Kahn and plenty of other failed or mediocre NBA executives talked about how great their vision was all the things they were going to do and...it ended up at best meh. Flip took over a franchise that was floundering in culture. Flip went about trying to change that in both small and big ways. He partnered with Mayo clinic and now the Wolves may have the best facilities outside the Actual arena in the entire league. He worked to bring in more health staff and ultimately brought in one of the best guys around in Arnie. Some of it was the success of the young players he drafted (don't forget that while we sold too many picks he also drafted Dubs who is a pretty nice player) or made moves for but Flip moved this franchise from looking like a joke to something respected. Glen deserves at least a little credit for that as well. How many times were the Wolves given credit his year for bringing in legit vets to help team and doing a lot of the right things for a young team?

Flip laid the groundwork in many ways for this franchise to have future success. Hopefully some things he put in place like Arnie can stay in place and this franchise with new leadership can grow.

Look, on the Lavine thing, the dunks are nice, but he's a 6th man (KAT, GD, SM, AW, RR), and if you think he's better, then remember, if he signs with David Falk or Arm Tellum, he's not even there.

I can't argue with the Love deal. I definitely would have panicked and taken the Celtics Pics/PupuPlatter. If you feel he had "indication", that would have come from one of Duffy's clients calling Duffy and saying "Why is Lebron an ass to me everyday?", and then Duffy calling Flip.

I think Flip having a "Vision" is overrated. He basically drafted and/or traded for Duffy client's three straight years. When he finally stopped, he drafted KAT instead of Okafor. I would love to hear the machinations behind that, but the one guy who can truly answer can't speak.

I agree that the training staff seems to have taken a step forward recently, but if as fans we need Flip to tell Taylor the importance of that, then we're in trouble, and the guy who was once the assistant got the head job at GSW and by all intents and purposes seems to be knocking it out of the park there. I don't know without researching if that was Kahn's doing.

I don't know who "dubs" is. If you mean Wiggins, he was drafted by CLE and acquired in trade.

And to conclude, this is the guy who once said after selling a 2nd rounder to HOU that they used on Parsons that he did it because there wasn't anyone left who was good enough to make the Wolves, and traded a 1st for Payne on the word of Izzo. The person he should have called was Dennis Green, and asked "Say, you once drafted a Michigan State player in the first based on the word of their coach. How did that work out?"

Actually I lied: He talked Mchale into Kandi because his agent was...nevermind, you get the idea.

As a fan, I am glad things started going well, but I think vision is too strong of a word.

You may want to revisit your draft history.

Camden wrote:"Dubs" is in reference to Bojan Dubljevic, who's a promising 24-year old Montenegrin PF/C overseas. Named a Rising Star just a year or so ago. 6'10, 245 lb banger in the post, limited athleticism and length, great strength and base, with proven three-point range. Drafted by Minnesota 59th overall in 2013. I'm a big fan.

Cool. Bring him over and that can make up for the pick MIN never got from HOU, and it will cut down on the number of FA's MIN has to go out and research/recruit.

Monster: Sorry I didn't immediately know who you meant, but at the same time, has he really accomplished enough that when I hear "dubs" I should immediately know that? When I hear "air", I still think of the N2O2 that makes up the atmosphere and not Michael Jordan.

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

Camden wrote:"Dubs" is in reference to Bojan Dubljevic, who's a promising 24-year old Montenegrin PF/C overseas. Named a Rising Star just a year or so ago. 6'10, 245 lb banger in the post, limited athleticism and length, great strength and base, with proven three-point range. Drafted by Minnesota 59th overall in 2013. I'm a big fan.

Cool. Bring him over and that can make up for the pick MIN never got from HOU, and it will cut down on the number of FA's MIN has to go out and research/recruit.

Monster: Sorry I didn't immediately know who you meant, but at the same time, has he really accomplished enough that when I hear "dubs" I should immediately know that? When I hear "air", I still think of the N2O2 that makes up the atmosphere and not Michael Jordan.

Ok I have some questions for you.

What year did Flip take over as POBO for the Wolves?

What year was Chancler Parsons drafted?

What were the the draft selections of the Timberwolves in the 2013 NBA draft after trades?

monsterpile wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

Camden wrote:"Dubs" is in reference to Bojan Dubljevic, who's a promising 24-year old Montenegrin PF/C overseas. Named a Rising Star just a year or so ago. 6'10, 245 lb banger in the post, limited athleticism and length, great strength and base, with proven three-point range. Drafted by Minnesota 59th overall in 2013. I'm a big fan.

Cool. Bring him over and that can make up for the pick MIN never got from HOU, and it will cut down on the number of FA's MIN has to go out and research/recruit.

Monster: Sorry I didn't immediately know who you meant, but at the same time, has he really accomplished enough that when I hear "dubs" I should immediately know that? When I hear "air", I still think of the N2O2 that makes up the atmosphere and not Michael Jordan.

Ok I have some questions for you.

What year did Flip take over as POBO for the Wolves?

What year was Chancler Parsons drafted?

What were the the draft selections of the Timberwolves in the 2013 NBA draft after trades?

My apologies. I scrambled Flip's Flip (no pun intended) quotes about 2nd rounders with Kahn's. That being said, when two quotes about running a basketball team are side-by-side, and you can't tell which one is the from the guy you are trying to compliment and which one is from David Kahn, that's a problem. Every team left in the playoffs is getting more from a 2nd rounder and/or undrafted player than MIN is getting from Payne or got from Ebi.

In terms of the 2013 draft, it looks like Shabazz, Dieng, Lorenzo Brown, and Dubljevic. And I would love to see him brought over, with a post rotation of KAT/Dieng/Pek/Sabonnis/KG/Dubljevic, with Bjellica getting Wing minutes, Payne traded for a wing (any wing), and most of the cap space going to a backup for Rubio and one more cheap wing. My only point was that he is not at a level where he can be assigned a nickname that would approach common knowledge.

You asked about Dubs and Cam answered. That's cool. I guess I just expected more from someone who apparently has memorized every Duffy client over the past 20 years. We all are Fallible. :)

Let's put it this way. In Flip's first draft he selected 4 players. Dubs hasn't made the league yet but is a terrific prospect and will hopefully be here in 2017 when he has an option to come over in his current contract over there. He also selected Dieng and Bazz who are at the very least legit NBA players if not possible legit NBA rotation players. Lorenzo Brown tends to end up on an NBA roster for a while every year. Sure maybe that's not magical or whatever but that's a pretty solid haul in a draft that's was supposed to be a weak one. We are on a have to agree to disagree on Lavine.

To me Flip deserves credit and no I supposed his tenure here wasn't exactly worthy of sainthood (although I think his overall contributions both to the Wolves and the state of MN probably give him a legit shot) but he did a nice job made some moves and was easily more good than bad. That's a win for a Wolves franchise that really struggled for a number of years while he was gone.

Have some people gotten maybe carried away with their thanks? Sure sure but that's easy to understand the guy is gone now and was so passionate about this franchise and the state (plus he seems like he was actually a really good guy) and the absolutely legit hope this franchise has right now makes one feel great. I'd say Flip had a hand in moving the franchise in this direction. I'm glad ol Glen went back to the well one more time and I wasn't a big fan of the move to being Flip back at the time when it happened. Thanks Flip.

Thanks to Prince as well. May he rest in peace. Great memories of partying to his music.

monsterpile wrote:You asked about Dubs and Cam answered. That's cool. I guess I just expected more from someone who apparently has memorized every Duffy client over the past 20 years. We all are Fallible. :)

Let's put it this way. In Flip's first draft he selected 4 players. Dubs hasn't made the league yet but is a terrific prospect and will hopefully be here in 2017 when he has an option to come over in his current contract over there. He also selected Dieng and Bazz who are at the very least legit NBA players if not possible legit NBA rotation players. Lorenzo Brown tends to end up on an NBA roster for a while every year. Sure maybe that's not magical or whatever but that's a pretty solid haul in a draft that's was supposed to be a weak one. We are on a have to agree to disagree on Lavine.

To me Flip deserves credit and no I supposed his tenure here wasn't exactly worthy of sainthood (although I think his overall contributions both to the Wolves and the state of MN probably give him a legit shot) but he did a nice job made some moves and was easily more good than bad. That's a win for a Wolves franchise that really struggled for a number of years while he was gone.

Have some people gotten maybe carried away with their thanks? Sure sure but that's easy to understand the guy is gone now and was so passionate about this franchise and the state (plus he seems like he was actually a really good guy) and the absolutely legit hope this franchise has right now makes one feel great. I'd say Flip had a hand in moving the franchise in this direction. I'm glad ol Glen went back to the well one more time and I wasn't a big fan of the move to being Flip back at the time when it happened. Thanks Flip.

I have to address the Duffy thing.

Up until about 2003, I paid little attention to agent/team interplay. The only story I remember before that was Falk engineering the Marbury trade, calling back to complain how a secretary treated him on the phone and demanding her dismissal, and Mchale telling him to go eff himself.

In 2003, Rasho left and was quickly replaced by Kandi, both Duffy clients. DAL wanted Kandi, and Cuban screamed in the media about how he should have gone to college so he could room with Bill Duffy. My take from THAT VERY MOMENT was that Duffy was going to end up getting a lot more out of this relationship than Sanders/Mchale. By and By, DAL wins a championship and Kandi gets peppersprayed for refusing to leave a bar at closing time.

Fast forward several years, and the story about Duffy setting up a shell company for the express purpose of funneling money to OJ Mayo broke. I was lukewarm on Mayo to start with, but when they started talking about indictments for both Mayo and Duffy in an effort to nip this practice in the budd, I wanted MIN to draft Macalester's best player at #3 rather than Mayo, and said to myself that I was going to give up on this team if they drafted him. Well they did, and Mayo gave an interview to BSPN that was about happy as a hostage video, and I said "I'm done" and shut the TV off. I read the next day about the trade where Mchale convinced Chris Wallace to take Mayo and Jaric's 5th year for Love. I thought "Ok. I'm back in. Good work Herman. Go tell Lilly, Eddie, Grandpa, and Marilyn that you done good." But I don't believe for a second that this was prearranged. I think it was a bad basketball mind ripping off a slightly worse basketball mind, and it could have blown up in their face.

Fast forward a couple of years, when the Shabazz "birther" thing happened. All I was reading was how enamored Flip was with Bazz, and I'm thinking, "What's going on here?". So I research Bazz and come across an article that contains a sentence that starts with "Muhamed's agent, Bill Duffy....". And I'm thinking "This is where I thought this relationship was going", and was about as livid as I could be about a situation I have little control over when he was kicked out of the rookie symposium. I glad it got turned around, but it needs to be made clear: That trade with UTA was UTA being idiots. Nobody was enamored with Burke. He pretty played that S. Dakota State PG to a draw. And Flip made that trade because he knew Bazz would be there at #14. As a matter of fact, I think he could have taken Dieng at #14 and Bazz would have been there at #21.

So once again: Three embarrassing clients, almost felony charges for Duffy, and all have a Minnesota tie-in. So maybe you can see why I don't want this guy in my life and enjoy pointing it out. David Kahn once said he reads all the message boards. Well, I don't think he is the only one. And I want The Wolves to know that if they continue in the vein that I, and hopefully others, will notice.

Lavine: A sixth man at this point. Don't be overwhelmed by the dunks.
Wiggins: He is playing the 3 and Lebron is the 4 if he signs with Lebron's agency and not Duffy. And MIN's best trade option for Love becomes the Pic & Pupuplatter from Boston.
Okafor vs. KAT: I NEVER wanted Okafor, but I was resigned to him being here because of the Duffy tie-in (and hey, nothing embarrassing about Okafor, am I right?). I literally did not believe it until Silver read the pick. Maybe Flip knew it was near the end and didn't care what happened.

And I would love to stop discussing it, because that means it has stopped.

Thanks Jason for laying the Duffy stuff all out. I think your Duffy thing has some merit but I think your end game is a bit too conspiracy theory in some instances for me but I get where you are going with it. For example if Flip was so enamoured with Bazz then why was he so distraught looking when he talked to the media after those selections? Was it the bad seafood from the Red Lobster? :) I believe Lip actually talked to Flip about who Flip wanted in that draft but I could be incorrect on that one and even if I am O don't remember what it was so...I guess that wasn't too helpful huh? Lol

I think what you laid out with the Wolves and Duffy brings to like a point that brings up a reality that there is some real power of agents and agencies (and in addition relationships) that is not talked about a whole lot. I find it a bit amusing when people are surprised at some of these scandals. I like to believe the good in people but I am not stupid.

monsterpile wrote:Thanks Jason for laying the Duffy stuff all out. I think your Duffy thing has some merit but I think your end game is a bit too conspiracy theory in some instances for me but I get where you are going with it. For example if Flip was so enamoured with Bazz then why was he so distraught looking when he talked to the media after those selections? Was it the bad seafood from the Red Lobster? :) I believe Lip actually talked to Flip about who Flip wanted in that draft but I could be incorrect on that one and even if I am O don't remember what it was so...I guess that wasn't too helpful huh? Lol

I think what you laid out with the Wolves and Duffy brings to like a point that brings up a reality that there is some real power of agents and agencies (and in addition relationships) that is not talked about a whole lot. I find it a bit amusing when people are surprised at some of these scandals. I like to believe the good in people but I am not stupid.

The food at Red Lobster is never the problem. It's the god-awful wait.

I think calling it a "Conspiracy Theroy" is downplaying it. When I hear someone say that, I think of a convaluted chain of quasi-connections, like Glenn Beck's blackboard. Flip and Duffy shared a place in Dinkytown, and Mchale and Flip were each other's best friend on Jim Dutcher's Traveling Carnival of Disappointment. The links are pretty clear.

In terms of agent power, I hear that every now and again. Bill Simmons has said more than once that John Wall's agent runs the Wizards. I never really gave it much thought because I don't care about the Wizards.

In terms of Minnesota, I once made a joke about Ryan being in Boras' hip pocket because of the Joe Crede and Kendrys Morales signings. I would just like to say that I was joking. Crede was worth the gamble, and the Morales signing kind of went as planned. You really don't see this type of thing with The Twins, Vikings, or Mild, and in the case of the Twins, I think the danger is more them avoiding some players based on their representation versus the other way around.

I do think this will end with Flip passing. But when I think of all the mistakes that were made, and the recent "not-disasters" or GREAT LUCK that involved Duffy/Flip, I just think it's a little bit of revisionist history to say he did great. He did OK, and for once benefited from some outside factors.

And I have to say, the KAT/Okafor question will always remain an open one for me. Did he really take KAT because he is his own man, or because he knew it was near the end so he wasn't afraid of any consequences?