Minnesota Sports Forum

bleedspeed177 wrote:

monsterpile wrote: Payne seemed to be well behind Reduz in both minutes and looking like an NBA a player in preseason so I will pick Rudez.

Why did we pickup Payne's contract for next year?

That's a fair question. I'll take that on and know that I don't really have a lot of confidence in Payne being useful. I try and take a bit of a step back and take a long view of him as a player especially in light of his contract situation.

1. I can't help but throw out the cliche "we aren't there in practice and see what he is doing etc." stuff. It gets old but it's still something that's true although often it feels like a reach. That's no different here.

2. The Wolves have him under control for not a ton of money for 2 more season of they want 2 million for next year he is locked in and the following year it jumps up to a little over 3 million if they pick up the next option. Is Payne better than a vet min d-leaguer? That's a good question in light of picking up the option but if a million or 2 is what breaks the bank um I don't know what to say.

3. How many guys have made it back into the league or got into or found themselves in the league in their mid to late 20's after finding themselves in the d-league Europe or bouncing around? Payne a couple years from now might be one of those guys. Is that exciting to hope for? Not really at his age now but let's also realize he is a little over 1 year into his pro career which doesn't look good right now but a year and a half from now he may end up showing something. Yey right? I know you are getting pumped up about Payne you former doubters so try to contain your excitement. The bottom line is maybe he can develop into something a bit down the line. He would probably be a perfect develop in the d-league type guy. Maybe since Milt helped start the d-league that is something he has been working on for this franchise. Oh that's right we are buying this franchise. Count me in on doing a little scouting not for the D-league rosters.

4. He has some positive skills in theory and physical traits. He has a shot that in theory could be useful out to the 3 point line. Q has mentioned a lot of big guys are ending up having this skill in the league but Payne to me has some signs of it and he did so in college. He can dribble and go to the rim. I am not saying he is good at it but compare shooting and general offensive skills to say Dante and Payne has more upside there but can he realize it... Can actually do stuff consistantly and know what situations are good ones to execute those times.

This brings us around to physical skills because that goes with his defensive end. Other than being pushed around too much he has length athletic ability and reasonably quick feet for someone his size. He could end up getting a little stronger as time goes on. The bottom line is there is some rough skills and physical ability there mostly it just seems mental aspect and experience needed to refine his game on both ends.

5. He plays hard

That was too much to write about a guy that has been most impressive in SL play as a pro. Personally based on what I know I would have been tempted to not pick up the 2 million option for next year but I like finding guys that may be hidden gems (or at least useful rocks) from all kinds of places. I can see enough from him that a team would want to take a 2 million dollar gamble on him for next season.

While I was a big fan of Payne at MSU, I have soured on him lately and don't see that he has earned a spot in the rotation (except as a third option at center, but only rarely). That said, the amount we will invest in a long, athletic first round pick is peanuts, and worth the investment.

Monster did a great job of summarizing the reasons Milt made his decision. I think there is one more. With Flip lying in a coma at Fairview Hospital, Milt likely deemed it disrespectful to Flip to cut loose a guy he had spent a first round pick on earlier that year. Not the best reason to make a decision, but combined with the real basketball reasons monster listed, certainly the right decision.

I just look at Payne as a wasted roster spot more then cost of his contract. We will have another lottery pick next year and Payne will be taking up space where we could have had a productive player.

I think the Payne - Cunningham is a fair comparison although I think Cunningham has a far higher IQ, but Payne probably has more upside.

Would you give up a 1st for Dante Cunningham? I know I wouldn't.

bleedspeed177 wrote:I just look at Payne as a wasted roster spot more then cost of his contract. We will have another lottery pick next year and Payne will be taking up space where we could have had a productive player.

(Jeff Adrien is available)

KiwiMatt wrote:I think the Payne - Cunningham is a fair comparison although I think Cunningham has a far higher IQ, but Payne probably has more upside.

Would you give up a 1st for Dante Cunningham? I know I wouldn't.

Nope. What is done is done. I don't consider what we gave up for Payne when looking at his value going forward.

If Payne had Dante's BBIQ he might be a fringe starter maybe even a starter at PF. I am serious because Payne is more skilled and physically gifted. Dante is an undersized guy with very limited offensive skills but gets by as a tough, smart feisty dude that knows how to as Jim Peterson said about Jeff Adrian last year "Be hard to play against".

longstrangetrip wrote:While I was a big fan of Payne at MSU, I have soured on him lately and don't see that he has earned a spot in the rotation (except as a third option at center, but only rarely). That said, the amount we will invest in a long, athletic first round pick is peanuts, and worth the investment.

Monster did a great job of summarizing the reasons Milt made his decision. I think there is one more. With Flip lying in a coma at Fairview Hospital, Milt likely deemed it disrespectful to Flip to cut loose a guy he had spent a first round pick on earlier that year. Not the best reason to make a decision, but combined with the real basketball reasons monster listed, certainly the right decision.

Yep. Totally agree. Payne was Flip's guy. And while I concede he's looked horrible to this point, I am OK with giving him another year to see if he can be useful. He's cheap, has size and obviously some talent. And wouldn't it be a great story if Flip was right to believe in the guy?

No doubt Payne has all the tools. But I think the problem is he is a tool.

KiwiMatt wrote:No doubt Payne has all the tools. But I think the problem is he is a tool.

Technically then he has all the tools except the most important one.

My opinion, I like what I saw from him in summer league, his salary is low enough that it won't make or break the team, and I don't give consideration to what it cost to get him at this point, nothing can be done about that, you can't even fire the guy who did it. We have two years worth of bench energy guy at the 4 and 5, he won't play big minutes unless he earns it or there are many injuries up front. Finally, neither he nor Adrien, or likely any other deep bench player was going to move the needle anyways.

monsterpile wrote:

KiwiMatt wrote:I think the Payne - Cunningham is a fair comparison although I think Cunningham has a far higher IQ, but Payne probably has more upside.

Would you give up a 1st for Dante Cunningham? I know I wouldn't.

Nope. What is done is done. I don't consider what we gave up for Payne when looking at his value going forward.

If Payne had Dante's BBIQ he might be a fringe starter maybe even a starter at PF. I am serious because Payne is more skilled and physically gifted. Dante is an undersized guy with very limited offensive skills but gets by as a tough, smart feisty dude that knows how to as Jim Peterson said about Jeff Adrian last year "Be hard to play against".

I miss the wide open elbow shot Dante always seemed to hit.