I'm still not even mildly worried with Rubio's ankles. The guy isn't going to play til he's 30 or 35 because he's already had a full career of pro work (11 years as a pro wear on you). I'm ok with the small sits here and there because we have (pleasantly surprised) a very good change of pace backup in Lavine, and Andre Miller is a very serviceable backup as well.
Sit on this team for the season. Let Martin get his shooting back. See what happens.
Tony Parker was in a horrendous 1/2 season slump last season . . .not only shooting, but also within the offense. Pop made him play through it. Keep going. You're our guy.
We have a very talented team and it should be our goal to keep as many of these players together as possible and let them learn to play, and learn to play through difficult times.
When a player goes down, he's dead to the team until he returns and it's that simple. We don't need to trade the injured player, we need the backup to step up. Our PG's are stepping up.
Don't necessarily disagree with you on Rubio, but I think it's totally fair to question his durability at this point. What I don't think is fair to question is his heart or mental fortitude - the idea that he's somehow soft and can't deal with pain. It's been the training staff telling him he can't play. He'd be out there battling if they let him.
I also think the calls to bench Martin are fair. I'd probably roll with him a bit longer if I'm Mitchell, but I don't think waiting a half season would be a good idea. Unlike Parker, we don't HAVE to have Martin firing on all cylinders.
petecorcoran wrote:I agree with Monster... we need to see how this season plays out.
That said, there is a lot to suggest Zach cannot be a PG... or even a combo. Yes, the PER is good, but the Real +/- is not. It's not surprising to me that Rubio and Towns lead the team in Real +/-... and Zach is down the list. I've seen more good passes from Towns in 17 games than Zach in a season plus... and more from Ricky all the time.
We can still question whether Ricky can stay healthy enough to be the long-term answer... and can still question if Tyus can develop into a good backup. But no further questions in my mind on Zach... he's a 2. And the Wolves record of 1-6 with Zach starting and 7-3 with Ricky starting is not an aberration.
The question on Zach is whether he's best suited to be a starting 2 or to be a dynamic 6th man. Right now, his defense is atrocious... even worse if I could think of a word to describe worse than atrocious.
I'm very encouraged by his defense. It's not where it needs to be, but it's worlds better than it was last year. He's actually been pretty effective defensively for decent stretches.
Part of the thinking of putting Martin in the starting lineup probably was that he would play with Rubio which makes a lot of sense. Instead he has played with Lavine a majority of those minutes. I would give Martin a few more games starting assuming Rubio is healthy. If Martin can't get going offensively at some point at some point it may be time to give Bazz his shot especially if he can play decent D like he did yesterday.
monsterpile wrote:Part of the thinking of putting Martin in the starting lineup probably was that he would play with Rubio which makes a lot of sense. Instead he has played with Lavine a majority of those minutes. I would give Martin a few more games starting assuming Rubio is healthy. If Martin can't get going offensively at some point at some point it may be time to give Bazz his shot especially if he can play decent D like he did yesterday.
Zach Lavine should start at the 2 when Ricky is healthy. it makes for a dynamic, athletic lineup. Take Ricky out after 6 minutes and let Zach finish the quarter at the 1. then bring Ricky back in to start the 2nd. That way one of the 2 is always on the court.
petecorcoran wrote:I agree with Monster... we need to see how this season plays out.
That said, there is a lot to suggest Zach cannot be a PG... or even a combo. Yes, the PER is good, but the Real +/- is not. It's not surprising to me that Rubio and Towns lead the team in Real +/-... and Zach is down the list. I've seen more good passes from Towns in 17 games than Zach in a season plus... and more from Ricky all the time.
We can still question whether Ricky can stay healthy enough to be the long-term answer... and can still question if Tyus can develop into a good backup. But no further questions in my mind on Zach... he's a 2. And the Wolves record of 1-6 with Zach starting and 7-3 with Ricky starting is not an aberration.
The question on Zach is whether he's best suited to be a starting 2 or to be a dynamic 6th man. Right now, his defense is atrocious... even worse if I could think of a word to describe worse than atrocious.
I'm very encouraged by his defense. It's not where it needs to be, but it's worlds better than it was last year. He's actually been pretty effective defensively for decent stretches.
Agreed he has clearly improved and has had some legit positive moments on that end.
monsterpile wrote:Part of the thinking of putting Martin in the starting lineup probably was that he would play with Rubio which makes a lot of sense. Instead he has played with Lavine a majority of those minutes. I would give Martin a few more games starting assuming Rubio is healthy. If Martin can't get going offensively at some point at some point it may be time to give Bazz his shot especially if he can play decent D like he did yesterday.
Zach Lavine should start at the 2 when Ricky is healthy. it makes for a dynamic, athletic lineup. Take Ricky out after 6 minutes and let Zach finish the quarter at the 1. then bring Ricky back in to start the 2nd. That way one of the 2 is always on the court.
I wouldn't mind seeing that and my guess is that we may see that at some point in the future and maybe THE future if Rubio can stay healthy.
I didn't watch Martin play a huge amount before he played for the Wolves but I wonder if he is struggling because he isn't playing in a system. He is obviously a guy that makes plays in isolation but I think he is also a guy that likes to move without the ball a lot, make basket cuts etc. off the bench he has played with a guy playing PG that generally speaking isn't going to make him look good and some moderately clueless other young players. So where does Martin move to to get open looks? I don't want to make it sound like I want to make all kinds of excuses for Martin it just seems like there are some actual legit reasons he is struggling and if some circumstances improve he could be more useful than he has been so far. The Wolves have alotnofntines struggled to move the ball and have relied on some sort of isolation. Martin can ISO but if that's basically the only way he is gonna score it's bad news. It's sorta like expecting Pek to score by posting up all the time. That won't work he gets his points by moving all around getting easy buckets. If both those guys get rolling and useful...damn
Even if Martin has his shot going, he is not a starting quality SG on a contender in this league. He can be a weapon off the bench if he's shooting well, but he just isn't someone you want starting for you if you're serious about winning a title.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:Even if Martin has his shot going, he is not a starting quality SG on a contender in this league. He can be a weapon off the bench if he's shooting well, but he just isn't someone you want starting for you if you're serious about winning a title.
MN isn't serious about winning a title.
But that doesn't mean I champion his starting gig. I think it's fine to fix what's ailing him (it's more likely to happen with Rubio than with LaVine, Muhammad and Payne)... so he can regain some confidence and trade momentum. He'll be gone soon enough.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:Even if Martin has his shot going, he is not a starting quality SG on a contender in this league. He can be a weapon off the bench if he's shooting well, but he just isn't someone you want starting for you if you're serious about winning a title.
Yeah I agree with what you are saying. And want I know a lot fans are frustrated about is so Martin isn't going to be that guy later why do it now (starting) right? I tend to support Martin but I get frustrated with him too obviously.
One thing Mitchell has done I like is that while he has been flexible later in the game he has generally tried to keep guys in the same roles and keeping rotation changes down. Lavine always starting for Rubio is one thing he has done which is a big rotation change which makes complete sense because he is playing as the backup PG and they want to develop him playing that spot regardless of what the end game is. Plus Miller is the guy coming in to be the backup and you know he can be up for it as a longtime vet. My point is Sam made a switch of Prince for Martin while keeping most everything the same except planning/hoping to get more minutes for Bazz as well and possibly giving a little more run for Miller/Tyus getting Lavine a little more run at SG. I can see some value to not going too crazy making wholesale changes every night to the roles guys step into when it comes to the rotation. Guys see what roles are supposed to be filled and can attempt to fill them.
Like Prince starting I see Martin starting likely a temporary deal. Rubio's health effects what the rotations and starting positions will look like later obviously. If you aren't sure if he is gonna stay healthy you aren't gonna just start Lavine for 2 games at SG only to return him to PG for a couple games when Rubio is sidelined etc. Rubio being out hasn't made it easy in some cases to figure some of this out since he is a pretty big part of what they want to do in every aspect of the game.
monsterpile wrote:Part of the thinking of putting Martin in the starting lineup probably was that he would play with Rubio which makes a lot of sense. Instead he has played with Lavine a majority of those minutes. I would give Martin a few more games starting assuming Rubio is healthy. If Martin can't get going offensively at some point at some point it may be time to give Bazz his shot especially if he can play decent D like he did yesterday.
Zach Lavine should start at the 2 when Ricky is healthy. it makes for a dynamic, athletic lineup. Take Ricky out after 6 minutes and let Zach finish the quarter at the 1. then bring Ricky back in to start the 2nd. That way one of the 2 is always on the court.
I wouldn't mind seeing that and my guess is that we may see that at some point in the future and maybe THE future if Rubio can stay healthy.
I didn't watch Martin play a huge amount before he played for the Wolves but I wonder if he is struggling because he isn't playing in a system. He is obviously a guy that makes plays in isolation but I think he is also a guy that likes to move without the ball a lot, make basket cuts etc. off the bench he has played with a guy playing PG that generally speaking isn't going to make him look good and some moderately clueless other young players. So where does Martin move to to get open looks? I don't want to make it sound like I want to make all kinds of excuses for Martin it just seems like there are some actual legit reasons he is struggling and if some circumstances improve he could be more useful than he has been so far. The Wolves have alotnofntines struggled to move the ball and have relied on some sort of isolation. Martin can ISO but if that's basically the only way he is gonna score it's bad news. It's sorta like expecting Pek to score by posting up all the time. That won't work he gets his points by moving all around getting easy buckets. If both those guys get rolling and useful...damn
Martin was always the shot creator for himself. He lived at the line. He was James Harden before it was mainstream to shoot 3's and draw fouls. His career year was 24.6 PPG on 42/41/87 splits with 10.3 FTA's per game. 10.3! The problem is now he's 32, so he no longer has the athleticism to create open looks himself and he's getting setup basically the same as he was last year, but his shooting percentages have tanked (54.7% of shots assisted last year to 54.5% this year). The problem isn't him not being setup for easier looks. The problem is he's not making anything that he normally would make in the past.
