Minnesota Sports Forum

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:But why would Flip (one of the most powerful men in the NBA) give up some of that after only one year and hire a strong character?

Flip has it made in the shade right now. He's making all the calls. I can see him giving up some of that (on-the-court) but why risk anything more with a coach who overpower him as the proverbial brains of the organization?

Because he's not an evil overlord looking to run things his way or take the highway. He worked fine with Adelman who is a HOF coach. Why would he not make his life easier being PBO and letting someone else do the daily grind of coaching?

I'm not saying he won't step back from coaching. But why would he want a strong personality or marquee name who would only end up being a threat to his status as grand poobah when he can still go with a bobo or somebody more subservient and get most of the acclaim himself.

These guys have egos. That's how Saunders got to where he is as a very powerful man in the NBA... one of the select few in his position(s). I don't think he's going to want to jeopardize that until he has to... and if a guy like Donovan comes in here one year after Flip went 17 - 65 and the team wins...

... sorry, but despite the injuries this season... Donovan is getting the lion's share of the credit. Someday, Flip may have to go that route. Nothing in the history of Saunders/Taylor suggests that the franchise is ready for that right now.

He's either going down with the ship or getting smart and putting smart people around him. Having full control of a franchise puts you in the biggest of hot seats when things aren't going right which right now they aren't. I see 0% chance that Flip's coaching is the reason the ship gets righted. His roster management combined with a good coach is what is going to right the ship. So he can either run the franchise into the ground under his reign just so he has full control or he can do what every smart CEO does and put good people around him that can help push the team to success. If he has such a big ego that he can't do what is best for the franchise, good luck sticking around when the team is under new ownership even if he is part of that group. His lifeboat has an expiration date and that is the day Taylor sells the team.

I just don't see the rush yet. Judging by this board, fans think the future is actually pretty bright.

I'm not seeing a bigger name coach won't be here someday... just based on Flip and Taylor's history, I don't see it happening this quickly. I don't think the natives have turned yet to necessitate it.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:I just don't see the rush yet. Judging by this board, fans think the future is actually pretty bright.

I'm not seeing a bigger name coach won't be here someday... just based on Flip and Taylor's history, I don't see it happening this quickly. I don't think the natives have turned yet to necessitate it.

By the time it becomes necessary the damage will be done. How does Flip just back off and stick to GM only if he fails as a coach? This year is his out. If he comes back next year and fails close to the level of failure this year has been the damage is done and I don't see how he just recovers to the front office. When you do both, they are your guys through and through. You bear all of the responsibility for failure and the accountability comes much quicker because there is nobody else to blame.

khans2k5 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:I just don't see the rush yet. Judging by this board, fans think the future is actually pretty bright.

I'm not seeing a bigger name coach won't be here someday... just based on Flip and Taylor's history, I don't see it happening this quickly. I don't think the natives have turned yet to necessitate it.

By the time it becomes necessary the damage will be done. How does Flip just back off and stick to GM only if he fails as a coach? This year is his out. If he comes back next year and fails close to the level of failure this year has been the damage is done and I don't see how he just recovers to the front office. When you do both, they are your guys through and through. You bear all of the responsibility for failure and the accountability comes much quicker because there is nobody else to blame.

This franchise has been mostly terrible for 25+ years. A guy can be a lot more than terrible for only one year and be just fine. Especially considering he has such local ties and we're still by and large a provincial lot.

I said it when he was hired. By being coach, Flip is actually buying Flip the GM more time. Cue the press conference:

"You know, the plan was never for me to coach long-term. But we wanted to create the sort of foundation we needed to move forward as a successful organization. We really started with nothing, but I really like where we are today and where we're going. We have some promising players like (insert nicknames for the young guys here).

But I need to concentrate on that side of the business a bit more. That's why we're hiring a coach. Instead of judging me as Flip Saunders the coach and GM. Now, I can give that role my all and be judged in the role I came here for from the beginning, Flip the GM. "

Flip coached this year because nobody would take the job until the Love situation was resolved. Now that the team is set moving forward he should step down and get a new coach ready to develop this team and work their way towards the playoffs. The longer Flip is the coach, the worse it will be when he moves back to just GM duties. This year wasn't a complete failure because he got his foundation moving forward in Wiggins, Lavine and a top pick in this years draft. He has an out due to injuries and not being able to find a coach last year because of the Love situation. That out is gone if he coaches next year. I don't see a win-win here because I don't see success with him in both roles. I don't see how he could coach another year and then if it goes bad just step down as the coach and tell someone else to cleanup his mess. I also don't see how he could coach the team to a moderate success level next year and then feel ok to step down for someone else to take over what he built from near scratch. Either way it is not good for us moving forward.

khans2k5 wrote:Flip coached this year because nobody would take the job until the Love situation was resolved. Now that the team is set moving forward he should step down and get a new coach ready to develop this team and work their way towards the playoffs. The longer Flip is the coach, the worse it will be when he moves back to just GM duties. This year wasn't a complete failure because he got his foundation moving forward in Wiggins, Lavine and a top pick in this years draft. He has an out due to injuries and not being able to find a coach last year because of the Love situation. That out is gone if he coaches next year. I don't see a win-win here because I don't see success with him in both roles. I don't see how he could coach another year and then if it goes bad just step down as the coach and tell someone else to cleanup his mess. I also don't see how he could coach the team to a moderate success level next year and then feel ok to step down for someone else to take over what he built from near scratch. Either way it is not good for us moving forward.

I agree that it's not good for the organization.

But we don't have influence to make such decisions. Flip does...

I'm firmly in the camp that believes deep down Flip did NOT want to coach this year. You read some of this stuff about his long talks with Izzo, Donovan, etc. and his move to try to land Joeger, I really think he wanted to land a big name coach and when it failed, he realized he could bridge the gap rather than just hire a Plan B or C coach (like a George Karl).

We debate if Flip truly has a clue or not about how to run a franchise, but I personally think he is smart enough to know that he has the PERFECT job (basically overseeing the entire franchise while also having minority ownership) and he knows that the grind of day-to-day coaching is not for him long-term.

I would put all my chips in on the Timberwolves entering Mankato this fall with a new, shiny head coach.

Donovan is an average name for me... My top 2 choices as far as college coaches go would be Hoiberg (1) and Izzo (2), then Donovan. Hoiberg adapts to talent well, he's familiar with the area and understands how to win. It's just an added bonus that he'd be our immediate best 3 point shooter (wait...it's not a bonus if he's on the bench, so scratch that). Izzo has a long history of overachieving and you know what you're getting with him. Donovan I'm not 100% convinced on in that he won it all when he had a bunch of juniors and seniors that were NBA draft bound that happened to run the break really well. Even their backup center was drafted in the early 2nd (go Wolves!)

Donovan's an average name for you? Get the fuck outta here with that nonsense.

"Hoiberg adapts to talent..."

"Izzo has a long history of overachieving..."

What do you think Donovan does at Florida?

- Making the NCAA tournament every year from 1998 to 2007, a nine-year streak. Then made the tourney each year from 2010 to 2014.

- 7 Elite Eights, 4 Final Fours and 2 NCAA Championships within that same span.

- Career record of 502-206 (.709), which is better than your beloved Freddy Hoiberg's 115-56 (.673). Not to mention Billy's career record of 35-12 in the NCAA tournament. Fred's 4-4 in the tourney, with back-to-back disappointing appearances.

- Undefeated in SEC conference play last year (18-0) with a group that had NOBODY make it to the NBA. A team built on comradery, teamwork, effort and great coaching rather than talent.

- A large number of successful players have made it to the NBA under Billy: Jason Williams, Udonis Haslem, Matt Bonner, David Lee, Mike Miller, Joakim Noah, Al Horford, Corey Brewer, Mo Speights, Chandler Parsons and Bradley Beal. A handful of others who made it to the NBA, but fizzled out for whatever reason.

Don't you ever disrespect the great Billy Donovan again by calling him an "average name".

Camden wrote:Donovan's an average name for you? Get the fuck outta here with that nonsense.

"Hoiberg adapts to talent..."

"Izzo has a long history of overachieving..."

What do you think Donovan does at Florida?

- Making the NCAA tournament every year from 1998 to 2007, a nine-year streak. Then made the tourney each year from 2010 to 2014.

- 7 Elite Eights, 4 Final Fours and 2 NCAA Championships within that same span.

- Career record of 502-206 (.709), which is better than your beloved Freddy Hoiberg's 115-56 (.673). Not to mention Billy's career record of 35-12 in the NCAA tournament. Fred's 4-4 in the tourney, with back-to-back disappointing appearances.

- Undefeated in SEC conference play last year (18-0) with a group that had NOBODY make it to the NBA. A team built on comradery, teamwork, effort and great coaching rather than talent.

- A large number of successful players have made it to the NBA under Billy: Jason Williams, Udonis Haslem, Matt Bonner, David Lee, Mike Miller, Joakim Noah, Al Horford, Corey Brewer, Mo Speights, Chandler Parsons and Bradley Beal. A handful of others who made it to the NBA, but fizzled out for whatever reason.

Don't you ever disrespect the great Billy Donovan again by calling him an "average name".

Cam, I see you didn't even look to take my post into the context I was suggesting it in. I used to live in Tampa and really loved watching the Gators (went up to Gainsville multiple times to watch sporting events). Did I suggest that Donovan wasn't a good college coach? No. I was talking in the context of what I'm expecting of these guys at the NBA level. Adrian Payne was a very good college player, but that doesn't make him a good NBA player. Billy Donovan, to me, is a college coach. I wouldn't be overly disappointed to get him, but I'd be a heck of a lot more excited to land Hoiberg or Izzo (specifically Hoiberg), because I think, especially Hoiberg, would be a terrific NBA coach.

And I think it's a bit silly to suggest that Hoiberg couldn't have done the same record if he was coach of the Gators. (I say that, and I remind you, that I DO like the Gators).