Minnesota Sports Forum

Q12543 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

Carlos Danger wrote:Meh. He looks like a rookie to me. Somebody threw out Garnett's name. Here's reality:

Garnett's per game at age 19: 28.7 min, 10.4 pts, 6.3 reb, 1.8 Assts
Wiggin's per game at age 19: 30.7 min, 12.0 pts, 4.0 reb, 1.3 Assts

It's way too early to tell what kind of player he'll be. I was hoping for better (and more aggressive) play, but we've barely scratched the surface at this point. I think it's the second year that you can really start seeing what you have. I'll be curious to see how/if his game improves with Rubio.

Good information, Carlos. But tell me about this Garnett fellow...did he ever amount to anything :) ?

I agree that Wiggins' stats are very good for a 19-year-old rookie, but I can remember Garnett as a rookie, and his effort was never questioned. Wiggins just appears too passive at times, and needs to dial it up...consistently.

Flip sees it, and made a point of calling Drew out for his lack of consistent effort after last night's game. Wiggins can show us so much more than he has so far.

The other difference it that KG came right out of high school whereas Wiggins had one year to develop in a top-notch Division I program. It's a poor comparison.

I really like Wiggins and have always said that his floor is high, but man, you have to squint really, really hard to see the outlines of a future superstar.

It's too early to conclude anything at this point, but Wiggins play thus far has not been encouraging.

I remember watching Garnett as a rookie. I remember the tone of commentary at the time, too. It was basically a collective sigh of relief. Nobody had done what he did (straight from high school) in about 20 years. There were all kinds of concerns. Worries.

The Wolves tempered early expectations by taking it easy with him. But Garnett just kept getting better and better. In fact, if you look at the splits... Garnett's rookie campaign can be broken down into two distinct parts:

Part 1: November - January
6 ppg / 4 reb / 44% fg / 20 mpg

Part 2: February - April
15 ppg / 8 reb / 55% / 36 mpg

The more run he was given (after showing he was ready), the better he did. I think it's dangerous to simply use a few basic stats to make such comparisons. Garnett's rookie campaign was one of the NBA's most significant "success stories" of the season. We can't say that about Wiggins yet. Can he improve as the season progresses? Sure. But I think it's very unlikely we see the kind of improvement Garnett made as a rookie.

twolf921 wrote:Let us not forget what Kobe said about Wigg...he doesn't throw out that kind of praise to just anyone. Once he has another 20 pt game this will all settle down. It's not like Parker was tearing it up or anything before his injury so I think we just need to all calm down. Yes he disappears a lot but what were you doing when you were 19?

Relying on a Kobe interview or on comparisons to when we were 19 are really flimsy arguments for why we shouldn't be worried.

How about we go back and look at other high lottery picks with one year of college experience and compare their rookie numbers to Wiggins? Isn't that a much more objective approach?

So far, when you run that comparison, it is not favorable at all to Wiggins. Again, this doesn't guarantee anything about his future, as all individuals are different. Here is a link with some recent comparisons. This is apples to apples stuff:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2015&p1=wiggian01&y2=2011&p2=walljo01&y3=2008&p3=duranke01&y4=2013&p4=davisan02&y5=2012&p5=irvinky01&y6=2009&p6=rosede01

Wiggins isn't even close to producing how these guys did as rookies with only one year of college. His PER and WS/48 - both of which look at production comprehensively - is well behind the pace.

Now he has time to get better this season, so this won't truly be fair until the season is over. But he is way behind the curve compared to these other recent top picks.

This season has been filled with huge disappoinrments (sp?). While we can all be disappointed that the 19-year old has been unable to carry this team as a rookie, it ranks much lower than many other disappointments.

Injuries is the absolute #1 disappoinrment. But you'll have a tough time convincing my that Thad Young's putrid play isn't the next headliner of disappoinrments!

Tim, No doubt that there have been a bunch of disappointments this season, including the play of a few of our healthy vets.

As for Wiggins, I don't think any of us expected him to "carry" us. We know that he's a work in progress. But this guy is the centerpiece of the Love trade - the guy that is supposed to eventually be our two-way superstar! His play and improvement is what this franchise is riding on. His poor play, especially of late, is much more disappointing to me than Thad Young's struggles (for example).

Q12543 wrote:

twolf921 wrote:Let us not forget what Kobe said about Wigg...he doesn't throw out that kind of praise to just anyone. Once he has another 20 pt game this will all settle down. It's not like Parker was tearing it up or anything before his injury so I think we just need to all calm down. Yes he disappears a lot but what were you doing when you were 19?

Relying on a Kobe interview or on comparisons to when we were 19 are really flimsy arguments for why we shouldn't be worried.

How about we go back and look at other high lottery picks with one year of college experience and compare their rookie numbers to Wiggins? Isn't that a much more objective approach?

So far, when you run that comparison, it is not favorable at all to Wiggins. Again, this doesn't guarantee anything about his future, as all individuals are different. Here is a link with some recent comparisons. This is apples to apples stuff:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2015&p1=wiggian01&y2=2011&p2=walljo01&y3=2008&p3=duranke01&y4=2013&p4=davisan02&y5=2012&p5=irvinky01&y6=2009&p6=rosede01

Wiggins isn't even close to producing how these guys did as rookies with only one year of college. His PER and WS/48 - both of which look at production comprehensively - is well behind the pace.

Now he has time to get better this season, so this won't truly be fair until the season is over. But he is way behind the curve compared to these other recent top picks.

I've been trying to point out the unfavorable comparisons with other recent very high draft picks... at least with the ones that panned out. We shouldn't be comparing him to the crappy picks yet. With the good ones, you can see their impact early. I guess the hope is that Wiggins is an anomaly. There's still plenty of time.

As for the stuff with Bryant...
"I remember being Andrew Wiggins," [Bryant] said. "I remember playing against Michael my first year. To be here tonight and play against him, seeing the baby face and the footwork and the little technique things he's going to be much sharper at as time goes on, it's like looking at a reflection of myself 19 years ago. It was pretty cool."

That's the quote I saw about Wiggins. Is there anything else? Because I wouldn't put that quote as a definitive "Holy Shit, Wiggins is gonna be great" quote. Only a quote about a young talented prospect that has a lot to learn.

And let's not forget, Kobe Bryant was a fan of Wes Johnson too.

Fine root for the kid to fail, changing your opinion after every game. He's still learning and he doesn't even have a guy to pass him the ball. It's ridiculous to overreact after each game. Is Paul George's rookie season a good comparison or Demar DeRozan? Sometimes it takes a year. Giannis didn't do anything much last year but show flashes and now people think he's the next big thing. Love had 8 pts and 8 Rebs last night...does he suck too? Wiggins out rebounded him. I am as frustrated by this season as all of you but I'm still going to look forward to going to the Cle game tomorrow, wearing my Wiggins jersey proudly and root for my team and hope Wiggins torches the Cavs.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

Carlos Danger wrote:Meh. He looks like a rookie to me. Somebody threw out Garnett's name. Here's reality:

Garnett's per game at age 19: 28.7 min, 10.4 pts, 6.3 reb, 1.8 Assts
Wiggin's per game at age 19: 30.7 min, 12.0 pts, 4.0 reb, 1.3 Assts

It's way too early to tell what kind of player he'll be. I was hoping for better (and more aggressive) play, but we've barely scratched the surface at this point. I think it's the second year that you can really start seeing what you have. I'll be curious to see how/if his game improves with Rubio.

Good information, Carlos. But tell me about this Garnett fellow...did he ever amount to anything :) ?

I agree that Wiggins' stats are very good for a 19-year-old rookie, but I can remember Garnett as a rookie, and his effort was never questioned. Wiggins just appears too passive at times, and needs to dial it up...consistently.

Flip sees it, and made a point of calling Drew out for his lack of consistent effort after last night's game. Wiggins can show us so much more than he has so far.

The other difference it that KG came right out of high school whereas Wiggins had one year to develop in a top-notch Division I program. It's a poor comparison.

I really like Wiggins and have always said that his floor is high, but man, you have to squint really, really hard to see the outlines of a future superstar.

It's too early to conclude anything at this point, but Wiggins play thus far has not been encouraging.

I remember watching Garnett as a rookie. I remember the tone of commentary at the time, too. It was basically a collective sigh of relief. Nobody had done what he did (straight from high school) in about 20 years. There were all kinds of concerns. Worries.

The Wolves tempered early expectations by taking it easy with him. But Garnett just kept getting better and better. In fact, if you look at the splits... Garnett's rookie campaign can be broken down into two distinct parts:

Part 1: November - January
6 ppg / 4 reb / 44% fg / 20 mpg

Part 2: February - April
15 ppg / 8 reb / 55% / 36 mpg

The more run he was given (after showing he was ready), the better he did. I think it's dangerous to simply use a few basic stats to make such comparisons. Garnett's rookie campaign was one of the NBA's most significant "success stories" of the season. We can't say that about Wiggins yet. Can he improve as the season progresses? Sure. But I think it's very unlikely we see the kind of improvement Garnett made as a rookie.

Alright - calm down Q & Abe. I never said Wiggins will be the next Garnett. I was simply showing that at age 19 and/or their 1st year in the NBA - neither guy was an instant super star. It's absolutely a fair comparison based on those two qualifiers. Not many guys step right into the NBA and dominate right away. Wiggins has friggin 26 games under his belt. Let's improve the talent around him a bit (starting with Rubio) and then see how he looks. Garnett had Gugilotta, Rider, Mitchell and Porter around him his 1st year. Wiggins had Brewer, Dieng, LaVine, and Young.

I'd like to see how Wiggy does with Rubio in the 2nd half of the season before calling him a disappointment. I think Flip's coaching with 3 starters down has affected a lot of his strategy going into the season. We're too dependent on our young rookies this year for points. Obviously he's not scoring like Durant in his rookie year, but Wiggy's defense has been pretty good for the most part. I guess I'm willing to give Flip and Sam a pass this year, but if we end up going through this same process next year, then I'll be outraged, but until then, I'll just enjoy Bazz's nice season.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2014/12/22/minnesota-timberwolves-rookie-andrew-wiggins-in-no-rush-for-greatness/

Great read, great quotes. Give him time.

Carlos Danger wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

Carlos Danger wrote:Meh. He looks like a rookie to me. Somebody threw out Garnett's name. Here's reality:

Garnett's per game at age 19: 28.7 min, 10.4 pts, 6.3 reb, 1.8 Assts
Wiggin's per game at age 19: 30.7 min, 12.0 pts, 4.0 reb, 1.3 Assts

It's way too early to tell what kind of player he'll be. I was hoping for better (and more aggressive) play, but we've barely scratched the surface at this point. I think it's the second year that you can really start seeing what you have. I'll be curious to see how/if his game improves with Rubio.

Good information, Carlos. But tell me about this Garnett fellow...did he ever amount to anything :) ?

I agree that Wiggins' stats are very good for a 19-year-old rookie, but I can remember Garnett as a rookie, and his effort was never questioned. Wiggins just appears too passive at times, and needs to dial it up...consistently.

Flip sees it, and made a point of calling Drew out for his lack of consistent effort after last night's game. Wiggins can show us so much more than he has so far.

The other difference it that KG came right out of high school whereas Wiggins had one year to develop in a top-notch Division I program. It's a poor comparison.

I really like Wiggins and have always said that his floor is high, but man, you have to squint really, really hard to see the outlines of a future superstar.

It's too early to conclude anything at this point, but Wiggins play thus far has not been encouraging.

I remember watching Garnett as a rookie. I remember the tone of commentary at the time, too. It was basically a collective sigh of relief. Nobody had done what he did (straight from high school) in about 20 years. There were all kinds of concerns. Worries.

The Wolves tempered early expectations by taking it easy with him. But Garnett just kept getting better and better. In fact, if you look at the splits... Garnett's rookie campaign can be broken down into two distinct parts:

Part 1: November - January
6 ppg / 4 reb / 44% fg / 20 mpg

Part 2: February - April
15 ppg / 8 reb / 55% / 36 mpg

The more run he was given (after showing he was ready), the better he did. I think it's dangerous to simply use a few basic stats to make such comparisons. Garnett's rookie campaign was one of the NBA's most significant "success stories" of the season. We can't say that about Wiggins yet. Can he improve as the season progresses? Sure. But I think it's very unlikely we see the kind of improvement Garnett made as a rookie.

Alright - calm down Q & Abe. I never said Wiggins will be the next Garnett. I was simply showing that at age 19 and/or their 1st year in the NBA - neither guy was an instant super star. It's absolutely a fair comparison based on those two qualifiers. Not many guys step right into the NBA and dominate right away. Wiggins has friggin 26 games under his belt. Let's improve the talent around him a bit (starting with Rubio) and then see how he looks. Garnett had Gugilotta, Rider, Mitchell and Porter around him his 1st year. Wiggins had Brewer, Dieng, LaVine, and Young.

I apologize for using stats and context to continue a discussion in a civilized manner.
Obviously, that's a sign I'm unglued. Sorry.