Minnesota Sports Forum

Q12543 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Who was Dennis Rodman surrounded by? Who was Jason Kidd surrounded by? Who was Ben Wallace surrounded by? All of these guys were low-scoring players that won titles with Detroit, Chicago, and Dallas. I would argue in all three cases they were among the top 3 players of their respective teams.

So I couldn't check a box because the choice of "elite role player" wasn't an option.

Rubio needs shooters, scorers, and other guys willing to defend and play as hard as he does. Once he has those, the sky is the limit.

Sorry for not using the exact terms you wanted. He could still be an "elite role player" and be included in the first option... or the second option.

It's a matter of whether you think his current level is at the elite role player level. Or, if he has to improve to get there. The point is more about the stagnation in his development. He's essentially the same player now as he's always been. We can point to minimal improvement in a stat here or there... but he's still an excellent passer, good defender and horrific shooter. Add it all up, 4 years in... and what have we learned about him? What do the Wolves have?

As for the examples you gave... I'm not seeing the Kidd one. Jason Terry was instrumental to that title. So was Chandler. I think Kidd was a placeholder of sorts, although his defensive versatility (along with Marion) was pretty huge. But putting him 3rd or 4th or 5th is a pretty minor quibble.

I think we have learned that he is an elite role player. If his shooting improves, he's an even better player. If it doesn't, he's still an elite role player.

I don't believe in positional dogmas - there are multiple ways to piece together a winner.

Agreed that it's better to be on the next wave on "how to create a championship" than to chase one with 29 other teams.

Unfortunately, Rubio has to be much much more than "elite role player" on the Wolves. And that's why the team is looking at 65 losses. Again.

Well, yeah. Flip took LaVine as a potential home run pick in the draft (his words). We traded Love in exchange for a 19-year old who theoretically will be a top tier player some day. If he thought Rubio would evolve into the franchise alpha dog offensively, I'm not sure he'd be as aggressive in going after potential "go-to" type perimeter players. Now we all have varying degrees of optimism in terms of how good these guys will be, but I think the front office gets the fact that ultimately Rubio needs dynamic shot makers around him.

(as an aside, while Rubio still struggles mightily with his shot/finishing, he is a very good free throw shooter. That's important in the 4th quarters of tight games).

Yes. If he's aggressive enough offensively to get to the line. I'm hoping that reluctance with the ankle is the reason for the relative lack of driving...

Elite role player = oxymoron?

Elite role player = oxymoron?

I find your vocabulary impressive

papalrep wrote:Elite role player = oxymoron?

I find your vocabulary impressive

Your condescension is equally impressive.

Voted no, he can still be elite. But I'd be happy if he can stay healthy next season (for at least 70 games) and shoot 40% from the field. Modest goals, but if he did those two things his strengths (passing, defense, leadership) could shine. Might not be an all-star, but he would probably be in the conversation.

Lets just get another stud in the draft this year to pair with Wiggins so Ricky can slide into a more complimentary role--yet still a crucial one.

Abe I like where you are going with this thread and to me we know nothing more or less about Rubio's game than we did 12 months ago because he got hurt again. He hasn't played enough games while healthy to say much of anything about any type of progress he could make.

What we do know is now a much more legit worry about him being able to stay on the floor. That's more troubling that his shooting or any other issue he has. The reality is at this point the Wolves have bigger issues (pun intended) to deal with than Rubio's deficiencies. Like I have said a couple times now the Wolves should consider trying to add another young option at PG just in case Rubio can't stay on the floor.

Monster--What we do know is now a much more legit worry about him being able to stay on the floor. That's more troubling that his shooting or any other issue he has. The reality is at this point the Wolves have bigger issues (pun intended) to deal with than Rubio's deficiencies. Like I have said a couple times now the Wolves should consider trying to add another young option at PG just in case Rubio can't stay on the floor.

Agree, but Flip owns some of his injuries, playing him as many minutes as he did just after coming back from a severe high ankle sprain.

papalrep wrote:Monster--What we do know is now a much more legit worry about him being able to stay on the floor. That's more troubling that his shooting or any other issue he has. The reality is at this point the Wolves have bigger issues (pun intended) to deal with than Rubio's deficiencies. Like I have said a couple times now the Wolves should consider trying to add another young option at PG just in case Rubio can't stay on the floor.

Agree, but Flip owns some of his injuries, playing him as many minutes as he did just after coming back from a severe high ankle sprain.

Saying Ricky probably sprained his ankle because of the minutes he was playing is ludicrous. Sprained ankles are freak injuries. They aren't due to general wear and tear from big minutes or every superstar would miss time every year because they all have stretches of high minute games. General soreness like Pek typically has is a wear and tear injury that could happen due to too many minutes. Why hasn't Wiggins sprained his ankle if big minutes are the typical cause? He only played 96 minutes in the last two games. Ricky has had two freak injuries to two different areas of his body. This isn't a D Rose tearing up the same knee yet again situation. Minutes had nothing to do with his injuries and you can't baby him his whole career or you'll never have him be a player worth keeping long term because you cap the value he can provide to a winning effort on a nightly basis if you cap his minutes.

Some players are injury prone. It's easy to throw that around about any player but with Ricky there just has to be some other reason . There just has to be!

Is Ricky prone to injury, in other words was he likely to sprain his ankle or tear his ACL? Hard to say how likely those things are. I would say its likely Pek has ankle injuries or that he is prone to them. Stephen Curry is prone to ankle injuries.

Either way I can't say that I am expecting Ricky to keep having injuries that keep him out 60 to 80 games and he has no precedence of little nagging issues.