Sure to piss off the forum

[Coolbreeze44]

I'm just going to assume I know nothing, which we all know is true, and hope Sam knows more than I pretend to. So little has made sense of the past few years that I'm not sure I would recognize a good plan if it bit me in the ass, which makes perfect sense because why would a good plan bite me in the ass?

Post of the preseason. As dumb as Sam is, he is a smarter coach than all of us. There is likely a well thought rationale (teaching poise on the court, making defense the measurement for PT), but nothing has yet to be articulated so everyone is going back to their pre-conditioned negativity.

I'm going to side with the SP and Doper on this one. While Sam has made some public statements that have baffled me (i.e...Zach is my starter at the 2), I'm going to trust him on this one until he's proven wrong. None of us knows what is going on here behind the scenes, including me, but here's what may be going on. Although Sam has said he is all about long-term development, the seriousness of Flip's health situation now has him auditioning for a job. not just filling an interim position. And that means he is going to go for as many wins as he can this season, and put the players on the court that he thinks gives him the best chance of winning. And Sam believes defense wins in the NBA, so he is going to start the best defensive team he can, and that's KAT, KG, Prince, Wig and Rubio. Does anyone disagree that is likely our best defensive five? I'm guessing he has watched Martin and Zach in practice and concluded that neither is defending well enough to earn the starting 2 spot, and that forced him to put Wig there. And Shabazz has likely not impressed him defensively either. So that leaves Prince...a proven defender who probably has been the most impressive defensive SF in practice.

So, Sam has chosen to match up his five best defenders against the other teams' starters, and let his best one-way offensive players (Martin, Shabazz, etc) provide scoring off the bench and defend backups who aren't as likely to light them up.

Like the SP and doper, I respect all you guys as knowledgeable Wolves fans, but you're not privy to seeing what Sam is seeing in practice...so I'm going to trust his judgment more than that of those of us on this board that his starting five gives us the best chance of beating the Lakers next week.

Of course, it's also entirely possible that Jay-Z has just pulled this information out of his ass.

LST, I have great respect for you as a poster and your contributions are a must read. So don't take this the wrong way. Your post here is an example of what is wrong with our fan base. Cow towing to the man in charge and just trusting that he is going to do what's right is a recipe for failure. I firmly believe that if the fan base and local media don't demand excellence, chances are you're not going to get it. I'd like to see how the folly that is taking place here would play in a market like Chicago. Sam would be getting murdered in some of these markets before even playing the first game. And you know what's good about that? It forces change, usually for the better. There are a lot of people on this forum who really know basketball, and know what they're talking about. This isn't the average fan here. We've seen what has gone wrong with this franchise and we can tell when more trouble is on the horizon. So no, I'm not going to idly sit by and watch this charade without doing my best to call attention to the problems. We can make a difference if we're vocal enough.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

LST, yes that is the strongest defensive lineup. But one that would seriously struggle to score.

Last I checked to win a game of basketball you need to score more points that your opponent.

Or you could say...last time I checked you need to give up fewer points than your opponent. It all depends on how you look at it.

Yeah, Sam's starting five doesn't look very potent on offense. But Sam's first announced starting wing pairing (Zach/Wiggins) has been even worse offensively in preseason, and is certainly much weaker defensively. I don't know, of course, but I sense Sam got fed up with all the points his starting fives gave up in the first two preseason games, and that's when he decided to go in a different direction. And the Wolves have significantly improved their Q1 defense since those first two games.

....but he didn't even have Rubio, easily a top 5 defender at his position, before making that decision. Who was torching us in those first few games? Westbrook and Lowry are two that come to mind right away. So the answer was, "hey we better start Prince!". We weren't getting torched by wings.

[alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]]

The only silver lining here is this: This team is going to look horrible most nights at the beginning of the schedule. Pundits are going to look at this roster and start questioning why we are so bad. Even the most opDougistic of fans are going to start pointing fingers at the coaching staff. It's going to get so bad that Glen won't have a choice and will bring in a new coach and crew to rescue the shit.

A guy can dream can't he?

Look at how long Glen kept Khan and Mchale. There's a reason why he's been a failure as an owner

[alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]]

The "he's a better NBA coach than any posters on the forum" argument means very little when we discuss why starting 35-year old Tayshaun Prince is a dumbass move on any team, but especially the Minnesota Timberwolves who have Kevin Martin, 20-year old Zach LaVine and 22-year old Shabazz Muhammad as alternative choices. I don't need a Coach of the Year trophy to know that is a mistake just like I didn't need a flawless understanding of the corner offense to know Rick Adelman benching Ricky Rubio for J.J. Barea in fourth quarters two seasons ago was as foolish a move as they come. Spare me.

David Khan and Kurt Rambis also know more about basketball then the rest of us, but I think we can all agree that they are bad at their basketball jobs

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

The "he's a better NBA coach than any posters on the forum" argument means very little when we discuss why starting 35-year old Tayshaun Prince is a dumbass move on any team, but especially the Minnesota Timberwolves who have Kevin Martin, 20-year old Zach LaVine and 22-year old Shabazz Muhammad as alternative choices. I don't need a Coach of the Year trophy to know that is a mistake just like I didn't need a flawless understanding of the corner offense to know Rick Adelman benching Ricky Rubio for J.J. Barea in fourth quarters two seasons ago was as foolish a move as they come. Spare me.

David Khan and Kurt Rambis also know more about basketball then the rest of us, but I think we can all agree that they are bad at their basketball jobs

Ha, excellent point, alex! Although I guess I would argue that Kahn never coached and probably never played, so almost all of us likely know more about basketball than he does. Hiring him was just a gigantic Glen blunder.

And Cool, I definitely hear where you're coming from. This would be a very dull board if we all simply agreed with every move management ever made. I was certainly as vocal as most in criticizing Adelman, even though all of my basketball knowledge would easily fit in his coat pocket.

The reason I'm giving Sam the benefit of the doubt on this move is as follows:

1) Defense has been the main issue with this team the past few years, and Sam is trying to make a mark for himself by changing the defensive culture. I have always been a defense-first kind of guy, and support that wholeheartedly. I'm willing to give him some latitude here after suffering so long watching Flip's defenses.

2) While the Prince detractors talk about how our offense is really going to struggle with him in the lineup instead of Bazz, Zach or Martin, I'm not sure they are paying attention to how inept that trio has been offensively in preseason. Prince has been much more efficient on offense than any of the three the first 6 games...in fact, he has the best TS% and eFG% on the team in preseason. Bazz had a great offensive game last night, but in the first 6 games he is shooting 35% compared to 60% for Tay.

3) We don't know what's happening in practice (other than the first televised one). Once the season starts practice time is relatively limited, but in preseason there is much more time logged in practice than games. Nobody on a 16-win team should be considered a lock to start opening night the next season, and the starting lineup should be based on who performs best in preseason...both in practice and in games. Unless Tay possesses some photos of Sam in an uncompromising situation, I think it's safe to assume that since he has been named the starter, he has probably been outplaying the others on balance on both ends of the court.

Don't worry...I'll be ready to rip Sam if this starting lineup bombs and it's clear that one of the other three should have been getting his minutes. I just haven't seen any evidence in the box scores that any of them has earned it yet.

[Lipoli390]

The "he's a better NBA coach than any posters on the forum" argument means very little when we discuss why starting 35-year old Tayshaun Prince is a dumbass move on any team, but especially the Minnesota Timberwolves who have Kevin Martin, 20-year old Zach LaVine and 22-year old Shabazz Muhammad as alternative choices. I don't need a Coach of the Year trophy to know that is a mistake just like I didn't need a flawless understanding of the corner offense to know Rick Adelman benching Ricky Rubio for J.J. Barea in fourth quarters two seasons ago was as foolish a move as they come. Spare me.

Well said, Cam!!

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

LST, yes that is the strongest defensive lineup. But one that would seriously struggle to score.

Last I checked to win a game of basketball you need to score more points that your opponent.

Or you could say...last time I checked you need to give up fewer points than your opponent. It all depends on how you look at it.

Yeah, Sam's starting five doesn't look very potent on offense. But Sam's first announced starting wing pairing (Zach/Wiggins) has been even worse offensively in preseason, and is certainly much weaker defensively. I don't know, of course, but I sense Sam got fed up with all the points his starting fives gave up in the first two preseason games, and that's when he decided to go in a different direction. And the Wolves have significantly improved their Q1 defense since those first two games.

....but he didn't even have Rubio, easily a top 5 defender at his position, before making that decision. Who was torching us in those first few games? Westbrook and Lowry are two that come to mind right away. So the answer was, "hey we better start Prince!". We weren't getting torched by wings.

That's a fair point, q...I share your view that having Rubio in the lineup makes an immense difference defensively.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

LST, yes that is the strongest defensive lineup. But one that would seriously struggle to score.

Last I checked to win a game of basketball you need to score more points that your opponent.

Or you could say...last time I checked you need to give up fewer points than your opponent. It all depends on how you look at it.

Yeah, Sam's starting five doesn't look very potent on offense. But Sam's first announced starting wing pairing (Zach/Wiggins) has been even worse offensively in preseason, and is certainly much weaker defensively. I don't know, of course, but I sense Sam got fed up with all the points his starting fives gave up in the first two preseason games, and that's when he decided to go in a different direction. And the Wolves have significantly improved their Q1 defense since those first two games.

....but he didn't even have Rubio, easily a top 5 defender at his position, before making that decision. Who was torching us in those first few games? Westbrook and Lowry are two that come to mind right away. So the answer was, "hey we better start Prince!". We weren't getting torched by wings.

That's a fair point, q...I share your view that having Rubio in the lineup makes an immense difference defensively.

Right....So don't you therefore think Sam jumped the gun with his changes?

You know there is a problem when fickle and impatient fans like us are actually claiming that the coach isn't patient enough. It's usually the other way around where a Coach sticks with his plan longer than us fans are willing to tolerate in the absence of results. I mean, think about the foolishness of what he said about LaVine starting at the 2 before a single pre-season game. He dug himself a hole right off the bat. And then pulling the plug after 3 freakin' games without the best player in the lineup!

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

LST, yes that is the strongest defensive lineup. But one that would seriously struggle to score.

Last I checked to win a game of basketball you need to score more points that your opponent.

Or you could say...last time I checked you need to give up fewer points than your opponent. It all depends on how you look at it.

Yeah, Sam's starting five doesn't look very potent on offense. But Sam's first announced starting wing pairing (Zach/Wiggins) has been even worse offensively in preseason, and is certainly much weaker defensively. I don't know, of course, but I sense Sam got fed up with all the points his starting fives gave up in the first two preseason games, and that's when he decided to go in a different direction. And the Wolves have significantly improved their Q1 defense since those first two games.

....but he didn't even have Rubio, easily a top 5 defender at his position, before making that decision. Who was torching us in those first few games? Westbrook and Lowry are two that come to mind right away. So the answer was, "hey we better start Prince!". We weren't getting torched by wings.

That's a fair point, q...I share your view that having Rubio in the lineup makes an immense difference defensively.

Right....So don't you therefore think Sam jumped the gun with his changes?

You know there is a problem when fickle and impatient fans like us are actually claiming that the coach isn't patient enough. It's usually the other way around where a Coach sticks with his plan longer than us fans are willing to tolerate in the absence of results. I mean, think about the foolishness of what he said about LaVine starting at the 2 before a single pre-season game. He dug himself a hole right off the bat. And then pulling the plug after 3 freakin' games without the best player in the lineup!

Time will tell, I guess. As I said above, check out the pre-season offensive stats of the three wings that were "passed over" for a starting role...difficult for any of them to say they have earned a starting role with their poor pre-season shooting, and that's without even considering their subpar defense. I do agree that pre-announcing Zach as his starter was a bonehead move. I'll never understand why he did that.

After looking at Zgoda's tweet again, Prince as the starting 3 isn't the most surprising part of the rumored 10-man rotation. To me, the most surprising part is that Andre Miller isn't in it. Again to be consistent, maybe Zach is showing Sam something at PG in practice, but just based on their performance in the games, Andre should be ahead of Zach for backup PG.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Again, I think Zgoda's a shitty reporter when you want actual news and that this tidbit about the rotations is just one of his mistakes. All this debate is probably for not because I can't see Prince as the starting SF and LaVine as the backup PG come next Wednesday. I believe Mitchell even said something about focusing on LaVine at SG this year and how his time spent at PG last year helps him. Why say something like that only to continue to play LaVine out of position? This comes down to who's a bigger idiot: Zgoda or Mitchell, and as much as I'm not a Sam fan, you'd be a fool to take Zgoda's word seriously.