Opening Night

[TXviking [enjin:6602528]]

Martin off the bench is better than anything we can expect to receive in a trade. And his contract is not holding us back.
His defense might not be top of the line, but we need his ability to create his points on the second team. I think creating points on the second team might really be an issue this season.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Watching Cavs and Bulls last night I thought they both looked like Clubs that could use Kevin Martin.

I would put a lot of money down that Kevin Martin and T. Prince don't end the season in MN.

Agree, but if these guys are serious about the whole mentoring thing, I would like to think it isn't a complete firesale, whereby KG is the only one left behind to look after the toddlers and babies. Hopefully Prince or Miller sticks around - most likely Miller.

The thing is that it was Flip's vision. And I'm guessing he was instrumental in bringing in his type of guys. Will those guys have the same relationship with Sam Mitchell? And does Sam Mitchell even care about that angle as much as Saunders did?

Good questions. I'm ambivalent about Martin and I suspect Mitchell is too based on how early he (mistakenly) declared Zach the starter. That was kind of a slap in Martin's face. Plus he doesn't really fit the defensive culture that Mitchell is trying to build. Of course, neither does Miller. And while Prince was once a pretty good defender, I think he's lost a lot of his edge.

Q, I focused my attention on Prince in the Bucks game, and I have to say he was terrific defensively. Granted, his matchups weren't all that challenging, but his defensive smarts were on display...really great on help defense and knowing when to leave his man. Unlike guys like Bazz, Rudez and Zach, his eyes are always on the ball, his man, and cutters simultaneously...fun to watch. He also looks athletic still at 35 (although not so much on his blocked dunk). Flip's final tweet raved about Prince's defense. I agree that demoting Martin, Zach and Miller is a clear statement by Sam of the direction he wants to take this team. I think he still likes all three of them, but doesn't see them capable of executing his defensive vision. Having said that, both Zach and Kevin looked as good defensively against the Bucks as I have seen them, so perhaps they are getting the message. I loved Flip, but his handling of Love, Martin and Zach showed you didn't have to work hard or play well on defense to keep your starting spot in Flip's world. Not so anymore.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Watching Cavs and Bulls last night I thought they both looked like Clubs that could use Kevin Martin.

I would put a lot of money down that Kevin Martin and T. Prince don't end the season in MN.

Agree, but if these guys are serious about the whole mentoring thing, I would like to think it isn't a complete firesale, whereby KG is the only one left behind to look after the toddlers and babies. Hopefully Prince or Miller sticks around - most likely Miller.

The thing is that it was Flip's vision. And I'm guessing he was instrumental in bringing in his type of guys. Will those guys have the same relationship with Sam Mitchell? And does Sam Mitchell even care about that angle as much as Saunders did?

I don't know, but my sense is that it is as important to Sam as it was to Flip...starting KG and Prince is an indicator. It's interesting that two top 50 all-time players cite Flip and Sam as their early mentors...McHale and KG.

[60WinTim]

Martin off the bench is better than anything we can expect to receive in a trade. And his contract is not holding us back.
His defense might not be top of the line, but we need his ability to create his points on the second team. I think creating points on the second team might really be an issue this season.

Really? I think creating points on the second team is going to be one of our strengths. I've already speculated the Wolves may have the highest scoring bench in the NBA.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Martin off the bench is better than anything we can expect to receive in a trade. And his contract is not holding us back.
His defense might not be top of the line, but we need his ability to create his points on the second team. I think creating points on the second team might really be an issue this season.

That's where the loss of Saunders the executive comes in. We found out last season that Saunders was very good to veterans languishing on a tanking team... willing to move them for proverbial peanuts... apparently for future goodwill with other veterans?

Will the new regime keep disgruntled veterans around on such a lousy team (if the team does struggle a lot again this season)?

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Martin off the bench is better than anything we can expect to receive in a trade. And his contract is not holding us back.
His defense might not be top of the line, but we need his ability to create his points on the second team. I think creating points on the second team might really be an issue this season.

Really? I think creating points on the second team is going to be one of our strengths. I've already speculated the Wolves may have the highest scoring bench in the NBA.

True, Tim, but Martin is a huge part of that. I tend to agree that Martin off the bench is likely more valuable than anything we can get in trade. But I would change my mind if three big IF's happened. IF we stay healthy, and IF either Miller or Jones proves to be a reliable PG backup and if Zach can become a scorer at SG off the bench, I would think a first rounder might have more value than a KMart in the twilight of his career.

[60WinTim]

Martin off the bench is better than anything we can expect to receive in a trade. And his contract is not holding us back.
His defense might not be top of the line, but we need his ability to create his points on the second team. I think creating points on the second team might really be an issue this season.

Really? I think creating points on the second team is going to be one of our strengths. I've already speculated the Wolves may have the highest scoring bench in the NBA.

True, Tim, but Martin is a huge part of that. I tend to agree that Martin off the bench is likely more valuable than anything we can get in trade. But I would change my mind if three big IF's happened. IF we stay healthy, and IF either Miller or Jones proves to be a reliable PG backup and if Zach can become a scorer at SG off the bench, I would think a first rounder might have more value than a KMart in the twilight of his career.

Ahh.. But would they look to trade Martin if the team as structured is threatening to make the playoffs?

Another reason I believe we will have one of the higher scoring benches in the NBA is that KG and Prince will play limited minutes, so we will also have one of the highest (if not highest) minutes played by a bench.

[TXviking [enjin:6602528]]

The problem I see with the second unit is if we need to bring Zach on the floor quickly, then who is going to be able to distribute the ball in an effictive manner?

Bazz and Dieng will create points in the paint, but outside of those two, the second unit needs to find someone to push the ball and find the open man.

Again this is based on Zach needing to go in sooner than later or maybe starting.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Watching Cavs and Bulls last night I thought they both looked like Clubs that could use Kevin Martin.

I would put a lot of money down that Kevin Martin and T. Prince don't end the season in MN.

Agree, but if these guys are serious about the whole mentoring thing, I would like to think it isn't a complete firesale, whereby KG is the only one left behind to look after the toddlers and babies. Hopefully Prince or Miller sticks around - most likely Miller.

The thing is that it was Flip's vision. And I'm guessing he was instrumental in bringing in his type of guys. Will those guys have the same relationship with Sam Mitchell? And does Sam Mitchell even care about that angle as much as Saunders did?

Good questions. I'm ambivalent about Martin and I suspect Mitchell is too based on how early he (mistakenly) declared Zach the starter. That was kind of a slap in Martin's face. Plus he doesn't really fit the defensive culture that Mitchell is trying to build. Of course, neither does Miller. And while Prince was once a pretty good defender, I think he's lost a lot of his edge.

Q, I focused my attention on Prince in the Bucks game, and I have to say he was terrific defensively. Granted, his matchups weren't all that challenging, but his defensive smarts were on display...really great on help defense and knowing when to leave his man. Unlike guys like Bazz, Rudez and Zach, his eyes are always on the ball, his man, and cutters simultaneously...fun to watch. He also looks athletic still at 35 (although not so much on his blocked dunk). Flip's final tweet raved about Prince's defense. I agree that demoting Martin, Zach and Miller is a clear statement by Sam of the direction he wants to take this team. I think he still likes all three of them, but doesn't see them capable of executing his defensive vision. Having said that, both Zach and Kevin looked as good defensively against the Bucks as I have seen them, so perhaps they are getting the message. I loved Flip, but his handling of Love, Martin and Zach showed you didn't have to work hard or play well on defense to keep your starting spot in Flip's world. Not so anymore.

Long, While individual defensive effectiveness is always a squishy thing to nail down, the advanced stats on Prince don't point to him really being a plus defender anymore. I do agree he isn't a detractor on defense, meaning he's so bad that teams will target him (like they might with Martin). I'm sure after Flip watched last season's squad play some of the worst defense in the history of the NBA, Prince looks like the second coming of Bruce Bowen comparatively. But he's not.....

I do agree with your broader comments about Flip though. It's funny, NO ONE has talked about Flip's defensive chops or innovations when they reflect on him as a coach. It's all about his offensive innovations and ability to put guys in a position to succeed on that side of the floor.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

The problem I see with the second unit is if we need to bring Zach on the floor quickly, then who is going to be able to distribute the ball in an effictive manner?

Bazz and Dieng will create points in the paint, but outside of those two, the second unit needs to find someone to push the ball and find the open man.

Again this is based on Zach needing to go in sooner than later or maybe starting.

Yeah, Zach running the point is a huge problem. I think having Dieng and Bjelly out there should help at least a little bit. Dieng is a pretty good passer out of the high post and Bjelly can initiate some offense with the ball in his hands from the perimeter, as we've seen.