Mad Scientist at Work - Bucks at Wolves GDT

[60WinTim]

Drew, how have we looked in the preseason games? You see anything positive?

It's how we have looked in the preseason that caused Sam to make the change. The LaVine-Wiggins tandem has been so badly over-matched on both ends of the court, Sam decided it wasn't good for anyone to keep getting trounced by 20+ point blowouts in the preseason, much less the regular season. Just look at the physical mismatches those two went up against in the first 3 games.

You could say "well, they won't always have that bad a mismatch". So okay, we just accept being trounced when we play the good teams, but maybe be competitive against the bad teams, and hope everyone develops?

Sam's new plan is designed so maybe we are the team that has the advantage on most nights. I like the concept, and am anxious to see how it pans out.

Tim, this logic strains the bounds of credulity. Sam Mitchell sat on the bench all last season and watched Zach play SG with Wiggins at SF for a good month. Yet within the span of three pre-season games he completely came to a different conclusion? And without Rubio in the mix?

Credulity? Having specialized responsibilities as an assistant and running your own show is quite different. Although it can certainly be argued that Sam overreacted based on 3 preseason games against some of the tougher teams they are going to face.

I understand why everyone is upset. I was, too, at first. But in my book, the pros and cons of the current plan outweigh anything else I can come up with. Zach is pretty far down on the list of priorities right now -- a guy who had a bench role in his only college season. A guy who was not even going to play last year, but wound up playing a leading role, and clearly showed he should NOT have played last year. Zach may never be anything more than a combo guard off the bench. So let's see if he can be competent in that role before thrusting him into the starting SG role!

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Drew, how have we looked in the preseason games? You see anything positive?

It's how we have looked in the preseason that caused Sam to make the change. The LaVine-Wiggins tandem has been so badly over-matched on both ends of the court, Sam decided it wasn't good for anyone to keep getting trounced by 20+ point blowouts in the preseason, much less the regular season. Just look at the physical mismatches those two went up against in the first 3 games.

You could say "well, they won't always have that bad a mismatch". So okay, we just accept being trounced when we play the good teams, but maybe be competitive against the bad teams, and hope everyone develops?

Sam's new plan is designed so maybe we are the team that has the advantage on most nights. I like the concept, and am anxious to see how it pans out.

Tim, this logic strains the bounds of credulity. Sam Mitchell sat on the bench all last season and watched Zach play SG with Wiggins at SF for a good month. Yet within the span of three pre-season games he completely came to a different conclusion? And without Rubio in the mix?

Credulity? Having specialized responsibilities as an assistant and running your own show is quite different. Although it can certainly be argued that Sam overreacted based on 3 preseason games against some of the tougher teams they are going to face.

I understand why everyone is upset. I was, too, at first. But in my book, the pros and cons of the current plan outweigh anything else I can come up with. Zach is pretty far down on the list of priorities right now -- a guy who had a bench role in his only college season. A guy who was not even going to play last year, but wound up playing a leading role, and clearly showed he should NOT have played last year. Zach may never be anything more than a combo guard off the bench. So let's see if he can be competent in that role before thrusting him into the starting SG role!

Credulity
noun
1.willingness to believe or trust too readily, especially without proper or adequate evidence; gullibility.

i.e. hard to believe Mitchell suddenly came upon a revelation after 3 games of pre-season play. You mean he didn't have any inkling that size and strength was an issue last year!?!?

As for the second part, well yeah, I agree with everything you say there. That's exactly why Mitchell should have never said anything to begin with!

[Monster]

Drew, how have we looked in the preseason games? You see anything positive?

It's how we have looked in the preseason that caused Sam to make the change. The LaVine-Wiggins tandem has been so badly over-matched on both ends of the court, Sam decided it wasn't good for anyone to keep getting trounced by 20+ point blowouts in the preseason, much less the regular season. Just look at the physical mismatches those two went up against in the first 3 games.

You could say "well, they won't always have that bad a mismatch". So okay, we just accept being trounced when we play the good teams, but maybe be competitive against the bad teams, and hope everyone develops?

Sam's new plan is designed so maybe we are the team that has the advantage on most nights. I like the concept, and am anxious to see how it pans out.

Tim, this logic strains the bounds of credulity. Sam Mitchell sat on the bench all last season and watched Zach play SG with Wiggins at SF for a good month. Yet within the span of three pre-season games he completely came to a different conclusion? And without Rubio in the mix?

Credulity? Having specialized responsibilities as an assistant and running your own show is quite different. Although it can certainly be argued that Sam overreacted based on 3 preseason games against some of the tougher teams they are going to face.

I understand why everyone is upset. I was, too, at first. But in my book, the pros and cons of the current plan outweigh anything else I can come up with. Zach is pretty far down on the list of priorities right now -- a guy who had a bench role in his only college season. A guy who was not even going to play last year, but wound up playing a leading role, and clearly showed he should NOT have played last year. Zach may never be anything more than a combo guard off the bench. So let's see if he can be competent in that role before thrusting him into the starting SG role!

Credulity
noun
1.willingness to believe or trust too readily, especially without proper or adequate evidence; gullibility.

i.e. hard to believe Mitchell suddenly came upon a revelation after 3 games of pre-season play. You mean he didn't have any inkling that size and strength was an issue last year!?!?

As for the second part, well yeah, I agree with everything you say there. That's exactly why Mitchell should have never said anything to begin with!

I get why people are frustrated but Sam said Zach was in the lineup with an eraser. Do you think Zach is somehow broken mentally now? His head coach gave him an opportunity as a starter and he played poorly which I am sure Lavine is aware of without a one telling him. Now his HC is giving him a chance at minutes playing at PG over guys who are better at that position. Mitchell has still shown some confidence in him. If this was all about merit Miller or Tyus would be playing backup minutes although Zach may have a little more positive effect on the defensive end than either guy just because of his length.

Yeah Sam probably shouldn't have gone all in on Zach but how long has it been that Sam has known he was going to be the guy coaching this team? 6 weeks? I feel like Sam is reasonably competent although long term there is better guys but man he is in a tough spot. He made a likely misstep there I don't think it's a big of a deal as some are making it out to be. Let's be honest though Zach is a completely polarizing player for both fans and coaches and I think we know why and for once attitude doesn't seem to be an issue with an upside guy.

Also if you want to have some sort of positive feeling about Sam is that I will remind that while in Toronto he has a slew of ball handling guards and many had a lot of success some career years under Sam. Does that mean Sam is good with guards? Maybe there is some evidence he knows that he is doing similar to The confidence I think a lot of us had in Flip because of his success while he was with the Wolves his first go around.

[Coolbreeze44]

Drew, how have we looked in the preseason games? You see anything positive?

It's how we have looked in the preseason that caused Sam to make the change. The LaVine-Wiggins tandem has been so badly over-matched on both ends of the court, Sam decided it wasn't good for anyone to keep getting trounced by 20+ point blowouts in the preseason, much less the regular season. Just look at the physical mismatches those two went up against in the first 3 games.

You could say "well, they won't always have that bad a mismatch". So okay, we just accept being trounced when we play the good teams, but maybe be competitive against the bad teams, and hope everyone develops?

Sam's new plan is designed so maybe we are the team that has the advantage on most nights. I like the concept, and am anxious to see how it pans out.

Tim, this logic strains the bounds of credulity. Sam Mitchell sat on the bench all last season and watched Zach play SG with Wiggins at SF for a good month. Yet within the span of three pre-season games he completely came to a different conclusion? And without Rubio in the mix?

Credulity? Having specialized responsibilities as an assistant and running your own show is quite different. Although it can certainly be argued that Sam overreacted based on 3 preseason games against some of the tougher teams they are going to face.

I understand why everyone is upset. I was, too, at first. But in my book, the pros and cons of the current plan outweigh anything else I can come up with. Zach is pretty far down on the list of priorities right now -- a guy who had a bench role in his only college season. A guy who was not even going to play last year, but wound up playing a leading role, and clearly showed he should NOT have played last year. Zach may never be anything more than a combo guard off the bench. So let's see if he can be competent in that role before thrusting him into the starting SG role!

Credulity
noun
1.willingness to believe or trust too readily, especially without proper or adequate evidence; gullibility.

i.e. hard to believe Mitchell suddenly came upon a revelation after 3 games of pre-season play. You mean he didn't have any inkling that size and strength was an issue last year!?!?

As for the second part, well yeah, I agree with everything you say there. That's exactly why Mitchell should have never said anything to begin with!

I get why people are frustrated but Sam said Zach was in the lineup with an eraser. Do you think Zach is somehow broken mentally now? His head coach gave him an opportunity as a starter and he played poorly which I am sure Lavine is aware of without a one telling him. Now his HC is giving him a chance at minutes playing at PG over guys who are better at that position. Mitchell has still shown some confidence in him. If this was all about merit Miller or Tyus would be playing backup minutes although Zach may have a little more positive effect on the defensive end than either guy just because of his length.

Yeah Sam probably shouldn't have gone all in on Zach but how long has it been that Sam has known he was going to be the guy coaching this team? 6 weeks? I feel like Sam is reasonably competent although long term there is better guys but man he is in a tough spot. He made a likely misstep there I don't think it's a big of a deal as some are making it out to be. Let's be honest though Zach is a completely polarizing player for both fans and coaches and I think we know why and for once attitude doesn't seem to be an issue with an upside guy.

Also if you want to have some sort of positive feeling about Sam is that I will remind that while in Toronto he has a slew of ball handling guards and many had a lot of success some career years under Sam. Does that mean Sam is good with guards? Maybe there is some evidence he knows that he is doing similar to The confidence I think a lot of us had in Flip because of his success while he was with the Wolves his first go around.

Do really believe that Monster?

[Monster]

Drew, how have we looked in the preseason games? You see anything positive?

It's how we have looked in the preseason that caused Sam to make the change. The LaVine-Wiggins tandem has been so badly over-matched on both ends of the court, Sam decided it wasn't good for anyone to keep getting trounced by 20+ point blowouts in the preseason, much less the regular season. Just look at the physical mismatches those two went up against in the first 3 games.

You could say "well, they won't always have that bad a mismatch". So okay, we just accept being trounced when we play the good teams, but maybe be competitive against the bad teams, and hope everyone develops?

Sam's new plan is designed so maybe we are the team that has the advantage on most nights. I like the concept, and am anxious to see how it pans out.

Tim, this logic strains the bounds of credulity. Sam Mitchell sat on the bench all last season and watched Zach play SG with Wiggins at SF for a good month. Yet within the span of three pre-season games he completely came to a different conclusion? And without Rubio in the mix?

Credulity? Having specialized responsibilities as an assistant and running your own show is quite different. Although it can certainly be argued that Sam overreacted based on 3 preseason games against some of the tougher teams they are going to face.

I understand why everyone is upset. I was, too, at first. But in my book, the pros and cons of the current plan outweigh anything else I can come up with. Zach is pretty far down on the list of priorities right now -- a guy who had a bench role in his only college season. A guy who was not even going to play last year, but wound up playing a leading role, and clearly showed he should NOT have played last year. Zach may never be anything more than a combo guard off the bench. So let's see if he can be competent in that role before thrusting him into the starting SG role!

Credulity
noun
1.willingness to believe or trust too readily, especially without proper or adequate evidence; gullibility.

i.e. hard to believe Mitchell suddenly came upon a revelation after 3 games of pre-season play. You mean he didn't have any inkling that size and strength was an issue last year!?!?

As for the second part, well yeah, I agree with everything you say there. That's exactly why Mitchell should have never said anything to begin with!

I get why people are frustrated but Sam said Zach was in the lineup with an eraser. Do you think Zach is somehow broken mentally now? His head coach gave him an opportunity as a starter and he played poorly which I am sure Lavine is aware of without a one telling him. Now his HC is giving him a chance at minutes playing at PG over guys who are better at that position. Mitchell has still shown some confidence in him. If this was all about merit Miller or Tyus would be playing backup minutes although Zach may have a little more positive effect on the defensive end than either guy just because of his length.

Yeah Sam probably shouldn't have gone all in on Zach but how long has it been that Sam has known he was going to be the guy coaching this team? 6 weeks? I feel like Sam is reasonably competent although long term there is better guys but man he is in a tough spot. He made a likely misstep there I don't think it's a big of a deal as some are making it out to be. Let's be honest though Zach is a completely polarizing player for both fans and coaches and I think we know why and for once attitude doesn't seem to be an issue with an upside guy.

Also if you want to have some sort of positive feeling about Sam is that I will remind that while in Toronto he has a slew of ball handling guards and many had a lot of success some career years under Sam. Does that mean Sam is good with guards? Maybe there is some evidence he knows that he is doing similar to The confidence I think a lot of us had in Flip because of his success while he was with the Wolves his first go around.

Do really believe that Monster?

Well Sam did name him the starter. Lol

[Carlos Danger]

I get why people are frustrated but Sam said Zach was in the lineup with an eraser. Do you think Zach is somehow broken mentally now? His head coach gave him an opportunity as a starter and he played poorly which I am sure Lavine is aware of without a one telling him. Now his HC is giving him a chance at minutes playing at PG over guys who are better at that position. Mitchell has still shown some confidence in him. If this was all about merit Miller or Tyus would be playing backup minutes although Zach may have a little more positive effect on the defensive end than either guy just because of his length.

Yeah Sam probably shouldn't have gone all in on Zach but how long has it been that Sam has known he was going to be the guy coaching this team? 6 weeks? I feel like Sam is reasonably competent although long term there is better guys but man he is in a tough spot. He made a likely misstep there I don't think it's a big of a deal as some are making it out to be. Let's be honest though Zach is a completely polarizing player for both fans and coaches and I think we know why and for once attitude doesn't seem to be an issue with an upside guy.

Also if you want to have some sort of positive feeling about Sam is that I will remind that while in Toronto he has a slew of ball handling guards and many had a lot of success some career years under Sam. Does that mean Sam is good with guards? Maybe there is some evidence he knows that he is doing similar to The confidence I think a lot of us had in Flip because of his success while he was with the Wolves his first go around.

I'm worried about the domino effect though:

1.) Martin was pissy because he felt he should be starting and is better than LaVine
2.) Now LaVine is probably pissy because he felt his bigger body of work should have given him more than a 3 game preseason leash on the starting job.
3.) LaVine clearly looked better at SG than PG last year
4.) Wiggins (to me) looked much better at SF than SG last year

Net result: Two of your future building blocks playing out of position and a pissy Martin to accomodate a 35 year old Prince who won't be around next year.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I'm going to the game tonight and hoping for a good showing in the last preseason game. There's no question the team doesn't look nearly as ready to start the season as they did last year, but I'm hoping for a good defensive performance tonight to kick my optimism level up a little.

I have to admit to some amusement in reading the vitriol directed toward Sam largely based on his decision to start Prince at SF. You would think we were a team in the hunt for a championship with some clearly established starters like the Spurs, and not a team coming off a 16-win season! How can Sam consider starting Prince over proven NBA stars such as LaVine, Muhammad and Bjelica?!!! I'm hearing Sam being described in two ways..."moron" and "not establishing an identity for the team", neither of which I agree with.

The "moron" label mostly appears in the thread in which Prince was announced as the starter. I wonder if those here that are calling this a moronic move forget that Prince started at SF in a third of the games he played in for a team that started 21-4 just one year ago. Yep, he was good enough to start for the Memphis Grizzlies, but the coach of the juggernaut Minnesota Timberwolves is a moron for thinking he's good enough to start for our team!

And I think Sam's moves this past week show a clear identity he is trying to define for this team. Unlike the "identity" of the past several years, Mitchell is trying to create a team that emphasizes defense first...he has been clear about this from the first televised practice. I think this is why he originally named Zach as the starting SG...because he knew that KMart doesn't fit the defensive identity he is trying to define, and he was hopeful that the more athletic LaVine could improve the defense. Unfortunately, it was clear pretty early that Zach is not an NBA caliber defender...at least not yet. I'm not giving up on Zach becoming an NBA starter...far from it. But I agree with Sam's assessment that he is not ready to contribute at that level at age 20, and that he needs a lot more backup time. Having come to that conclusion, the only SG who fit the defensive identity he is creating was Wiggins. And with Bazz still a work-in-process on D, Prince was the logical answer to start at SF.

I share the prevailing view here that Zach seems out of place at PG, but I'm willing to give it another shot because Sam clearly has him behind Wig and Martin at the 2. And since we all know the defensive shortcomings of Miller and Jones, I sense Mitchell is hoping Zach can provide better defense at PG backing up Ricky. I'm not on board yet, but I'm willing to give it a shot for a few games. If Zach is a disaster at backup PG, he very likely will be odd man out as long as Wig and Martin are healthy.

But I'm much more on board with Sam going with his best defensive option at SF. Prince was good enough to start several games for Joerger, so I don't know why he isn't good enough to start for a far worse team. Towns, KG, Prince, Wig and Ricky is certainly not a powerhouse offensive lineup, but it is the best defensive 5 Sam can put on the floor. And agree with it or not, that's Sam's vision for this team. I'm willing to give our best defenders starter's minutes as our young core continues to develop on both ends of the court. Seems like a logical plan to me.

[TAFKASP]

I'm worried about the domino effect though:

1.) Martin was pissy because he felt he should be starting and is better than LaVine
2.) Now LaVine is probably pissy because he felt his bigger body of work should have given him more than a 3 game preseason leash on the starting job.
3.) LaVine clearly looked better at SG than PG last year
4.) Wiggins (to me) looked much better at SF than SG last year

1. Martin is certainly not happy to come off the bench, but I've heard nothing of his being pissy about it.
2. Again, I have nothing to confirm his pissyness.
3. Yes.
4. I thought Wiggins looked best when paired with Bazz at which point they were pretty interchangeable in terms of who was playing which.
5. WTF do I know?

[thedoper]

I'm going to the game tonight and hoping for a good showing in the last preseason game. There's no question the team doesn't look nearly as ready to start the season as they did last year, but I'm hoping for a good defensive performance tonight to kick my optimism level up a little.

I have to admit to some amusement in reading the vitriol directed toward Sam largely based on his decision to start Prince at SF. You would think we were a team in the hunt for a championship with some clearly established starters like the Spurs, and not a team coming off a 16-win season! How can Sam consider starting Prince over proven NBA stars such as LaVine, Muhammad and Bjelica?!!! I'm hearing Sam being described in two ways..."moron" and "not establishing an identity for the team", neither of which I agree with.

The "moron" label mostly appears in the thread in which Prince was announced as the starter. I wonder if those here that are calling this a moronic move forget that Prince started at SF in a third of the games he played in for a team that started 21-4 just one year ago. Yep, he was good enough to start for the Memphis Grizzlies, but the coach of the juggernaut Minnesota Timberwolves is a moron for thinking he's good enough to start for our team!

And I think Sam's moves this past week show a clear identity he is trying to define for this team. Unlike the "identity" of the past several years, Mitchell is trying to create a team that emphasizes defense first...he has been clear about this from the first televised practice. I think this is why he originally named Zach as the starting SG...because he knew that KMart doesn't fit the defensive identity he is trying to define, and he was hopeful that the more athletic LaVine could improve the defense. Unfortunately, it was clear pretty early that Zach is not an NBA caliber defender...at least not yet. I'm not giving up on Zach becoming an NBA starter...far from it. But I agree with Sam's assessment that he is not ready to contribute at that level at age 20, and that he needs a lot more backup time. Having come to that conclusion, the only SG who fit the defensive identity he is creating was Wiggins. And with Bazz still a work-in-process on D, Prince was the logical answer to start at SF.

I share the prevailing view here that Zach seems out of place at PG, but I'm willing to give it another shot because Sam clearly has him behind Wig and Martin at the 2. And since we all know the defensive shortcomings of Miller and Jones, I sense Mitchell is hoping Zach can provide better defense at PG backing up Ricky. I'm not on board yet, but I'm willing to give it a shot for a few games. If Zach is a disaster at backup PG, he very likely will be odd man out as long as Wig and Martin are healthy.

But I'm much more on board with Sam going with his best defensive option at SF. Prince was good enough to start several games for Joerger, so I don't know why he isn't good enough to start for a far worse team. Towns, KG, Prince, Wig and Ricky is certainly not a powerhouse offensive lineup, but it is the best defensive 5 Sam can put on the floor. And agree with it or not, that's Sam's vision for this team. I'm willing to give our best defenders starter's minutes as our young core continues to develop on both ends of the court. Seems like a logical plan to me.

I'm with Tim. The line between genius and moron is very fine. I guess the emotions of being a Wolves' fan pushes you to extremes.

[Hicks123 [enjin:6700838]]

I can't stand Sam Mitchell. Let's start there.

But this team stinks, plain and simple....regardless of coach.

I said last season, and stand by it again this season...Lavine is a LONG way away from being a productive NBA player. I get it....he had some flashes at the end of last season. But we have seen fools gold with many players over the years when you simply look at a small sample size. Overall, he was one of the worst players in the entire NBA last season. Now that said, from his limited experience and age, I fully expected exactly what we are seeing. Doesn't mean he can't become a very good player...but it ain't happening this season. And if Sam "destryed his confidence"

I am one of several that hated the KG signing. I am even more disappointed now than the offseason. He looks every bit his age so far, and he adds so little to this team. Mentor, smentor...I ain't buying.

I like Shabazz. Looks like an unstoppable offensive force waiting to happen. But defensively....different story.

Martin constantly gets bagged on. But he will again be one of our only consistent performers. I get his flaws....but at least he is consistently superior in one area of his game.

Rubio simply needs to be a lot better than he has ever been. I am not a believer....but I have never wanted anyone to prove me wrong more than Ricky.

That's all for now.