Lineup changes for Wednesday

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Lipoli390
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Re: Lineup changes for Wednesday

Post by Lipoli390 »

Mstermisty wrote:Nothing coming from Sam's noggin would surprise me at this point. Lets recap:

--About 11 seconds into training camp, to everyone's surprise, Lavine is named the starting 2 guard

--Later in pre-season Lavine is out as a starter, not exactly a confidence booster, but then strangely enough is inserted as the 2nd unit's point guard, a position he has already been shown to be ill-suited for

--After preaching that this is a "developmental" season repeatedly, Sam starts 35 year old Prince at the small forward

--Finally Sam realizes the Prince experiment is failing mainly because having 60% of your starting lineup not being able to score is an obvious problem on any basketball team much less at the NBA level, and despite Lavine coming on--especially in limited 2 guard minutes, he starts K-Mart, a player having a terrible season and also at age 33 not part of the team's future core

I figured Sam would coach all year and I was OK with that. But the way he has jerked Lavine around, among other things, makes me hope we could find someone sooner (by the all-star break?) than later who actually has a vision of the team's future.


And don't forget Sam saying you only develop in the offseason after saying earlier that he would favor playing the young guys for development purposes. And then there was tonight's presser comment: "we play basketball, we're not playing basketball."
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KiwiMatt
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Re: Lineup changes for Wednesday

Post by KiwiMatt »

Simple Sam needs to go as well as the three stooges that sit next to him. After 10 years of misery Wolves fans deserve better.
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Yosimar
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Re: Lineup changes for Wednesday

Post by Yosimar »

What i would like to see
Rubio
Lavine
Wiggins
KG
KAT

what i think we might see
Ricky
Kmart
Wiggins
KAT
Dieng

or

Ricky
Wiggins
Prince
KAT
Dieng

As much as i would like to see him give Lavine the starting SG spot i highly doubt it.
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: Lineup changes for Wednesday

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

longstrangetrip wrote:I listened to Sam's post-game comments driving home from a terrible Wolves performance tonight. Unlike many of his pressers, I found tonight's comments quite measured and thoughtful. He didn't fight with the press, but instead talked about what he was displeased with. And the main thing he was displeased with is the same thing I was mostly displeased with tonight...our horrible perimeter defense. After a depressing game, I was heartened to hear Sam say there would be lineup changes in light of the recent poor defensive effort.

Anybody want to venture a guess as to why we ranked in the top 10 in defense and were 4-2 after our first 6 games, and why we have now lost 7 of our last 8 games and rank near the bottom defensively? Anybody? Anybody? Buehler? After the 6th game, Rubio got hurt again, and as the losses began to mount up, Sam inserted Kevin Martin into the starting lineup in an effort to get more offense on the court. And our defense has been a disaster ever since that move. We're scoring more points, to be sure...but defense wins ballgames and the futility of our defense with #23 on the court far offsets the additional offense he provides. I will be very disappointed if Sam doesn't revert back to the lineup that was so successful at the start of the year: Rubio, Wiggins, Prince, KG and Towns.

Maybe it's just me, but I much prefer first quarters that end with 22-17 leads like they were at the start of the season rather than the 32-26 deficits we're seeing with Kevin in the lineup. Going back to the original successful lineup works because:

1) It puts our best defense on the floor from the start of the game, and doesn't allow the opponents offense to get in gear and their confidence to build.

2) It forces our budding offensive stars Towns and Wiggins to be active offensively and handle most of the scoring from the start, which hopefully carries through to the rest of the game.

3) It allows our weaker defensive second unit to line up against the other team's reserves who will be less able to exploit our defensive weakness, while still providing some potent offensive firepower from Martin, LaVine and Shabazz.

It's very simple really. It worked at the start of the season, and it will work now. Sam is too hard-headed to admit he made a mistake in taking Tay out of the starting lineup, but I do expect him to make this simple lineup change tomorrow.


LST, That's definitely the lineup I think he goes back to. I also wouldn't be surprised if we see Payne bump Bjelica from the lineup. Bjelly has been in a major slump lately and the refs have had it in for him.

Frankly, "tweaks" to the rotation aren't going to fix this. Everyone except may be KG has been slipping defensively. As Tim mentioned, defensive discipline and focus is required in addition to effort. There are just too many mental lapses right now - by multiple players. I'm not sure how that gets fixed through a lineup tweak.
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: Lineup changes for Wednesday

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

Here is my guess for tonight:

C - KAT
PF - KG
SF - Prince
SG - Wiggins
PG - Rubio

LaVine, Dieng, Payne, and Martin are the main guys off the bench. Bjelly and Bazz are either totally cut from the rotation or get just limited minutes.

Again, this isn't the rotation I'm recommending. It's just my guess as to what Mitchell does.
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Coolbreeze44
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Re: Lineup changes for Wednesday

Post by Coolbreeze44 »

khans2k5 wrote:Lavine is the best player not starting right now on the team. He's earned the spot. That's it. Nobody else on the bench has played better than him and is deserving of the starting spot more. He's at minimum the 4th best player on the team right now. I don't care who loses the minutes or gets the DNP's between Bazz, Prince and Martin or how it will affect our bench. You win more games because of your starting 5 than your bench. It's time to stop thinking about everyone else and time to start thinking about Zach. Wiggins is just gonna have to suck it up. It's time to stop creating lineups for offense and defense for the starting 5 and just put the 5 best guys on the court and let them play.

Amen Brother
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longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
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Re: Lineup changes for Wednesday

Post by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564] »

AP guy Jon K. agrees with you guys that Zach for Martin is the most likely move tonight, and he is right more than he is wrong. It wouldn't be my first choice, because I don't love Wig at SF or having to watch Miller try to keep up with PGs defensively, but I'll be fine with any move that puts Martin in to his proper role...providing offense off the bench on nights where he is hot and having him defend backup SGs. While there may be disagreement here about the exact moves Sam should make, I think there is universal agreement that the Martin starting experiment has been a failure.
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Lipoli390
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Re: Lineup changes for Wednesday

Post by Lipoli390 »

longstrangetrip wrote:AP guy Jon K. agrees with you guys that Zach for Martin is the most likely move tonight, and he is right more than he is wrong. It wouldn't be my first choice, because I don't love Wig at SF or having to watch Miller try to keep up with PGs defensively, but I'll be fine with any move that puts Martin in to his proper role...providing offense off the bench on nights where he is hot and having him defend backup SGs. While there may be disagreement here about the exact moves Sam should make, I think there is universal agreement that the Martin starting experiment has been a failure.


I hope Jon K is right.
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BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]
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Re: Lineup changes for Wednesday

Post by BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520] »

Let the new guy smiley, Kevin Martin get a couple DNP's. I'm sure he'll laugh about it on the bench. Put Tay back in the starting lineup, it was working to start the year, try it again Sam.
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BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]
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Re: Lineup changes for Wednesday

Post by BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520] »

Q12543 wrote:
longstrangetrip wrote:I listened to Sam's post-game comments driving home from a terrible Wolves performance tonight. Unlike many of his pressers, I found tonight's comments quite measured and thoughtful. He didn't fight with the press, but instead talked about what he was displeased with. And the main thing he was displeased with is the same thing I was mostly displeased with tonight...our horrible perimeter defense. After a depressing game, I was heartened to hear Sam say there would be lineup changes in light of the recent poor defensive effort.

Anybody want to venture a guess as to why we ranked in the top 10 in defense and were 4-2 after our first 6 games, and why we have now lost 7 of our last 8 games and rank near the bottom defensively? Anybody? Anybody? Buehler? After the 6th game, Rubio got hurt again, and as the losses began to mount up, Sam inserted Kevin Martin into the starting lineup in an effort to get more offense on the court. And our defense has been a disaster ever since that move. We're scoring more points, to be sure...but defense wins ballgames and the futility of our defense with #23 on the court far offsets the additional offense he provides. I will be very disappointed if Sam doesn't revert back to the lineup that was so successful at the start of the year: Rubio, Wiggins, Prince, KG and Towns.

Maybe it's just me, but I much prefer first quarters that end with 22-17 leads like they were at the start of the season rather than the 32-26 deficits we're seeing with Kevin in the lineup. Going back to the original successful lineup works because:

1) It puts our best defense on the floor from the start of the game, and doesn't allow the opponents offense to get in gear and their confidence to build.

2) It forces our budding offensive stars Towns and Wiggins to be active offensively and handle most of the scoring from the start, which hopefully carries through to the rest of the game.

3) It allows our weaker defensive second unit to line up against the other team's reserves who will be less able to exploit our defensive weakness, while still providing some potent offensive firepower from Martin, LaVine and Shabazz.


It's very simple really. It worked at the start of the season, and it will work now. Sam is too hard-headed to admit he made a mistake in taking Tay out of the starting lineup, but I do expect him to make this simple lineup change tomorrow.


LST, That's definitely the lineup I think he goes back to. I also wouldn't be surprised if we see Payne bump Bjelica from the lineup. Bjelly has been in a major slump lately and the refs have had it in for him.

Frankly, "tweaks" to the rotation aren't going to fix this. Everyone except may be KG has been slipping defensively. As Tim mentioned, defensive discipline and focus is required in addition to effort. There are just too many mental lapses right now - by multiple players. I'm not sure how that gets fixed through a lineup tweak.

Agree with this. How is Payne's Defense? I haven't seen him play much, can he be our 3 and D guy off the bench or does he make too many mistakes?
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