Minnesota Sports Forum

sjm34 wrote:I think the wolves need to actually have a blueprint and stick to it for more than one season. I think it starts with drafting young talent for our core, and we now have that (hopefully). Second it requires filling in some vets like KG, Martin etc, to help steer the young guys in the right direction, check. Third we need to understand how to move forward, and that requires winning BB games, which isn't going to have any chance of happening with the current roster if Ricky goes down.

I think the Tyus pick was a waste of time, mainly because I don't believe it should be part of our blueprint. I think we need to understand that our picks should fill one of two needs at this point. The first is adding to the core which means the player should have significant upside, and the second is a "ready to play" back up player. That means in most cases a guy that has played in college for 3-4 seasons and developed his game already, or a Euro type guy that is a little older. We already have plenty of young guys to develop for our core at this point.

Since we didn't fill out our back up PG role correctly, I believe we need grab someone like Chalmers. We have a TE that I believe would accommodate his salary, and we may be able to grab a second rounder as well for our trouble. It has been rumored that Riley is looking to unload him.

The problem with that logic is Flip believes he solved the backup PG position by drafting Tyus. Now you have to see that through. If it proves to be a mistake so be it. But that's the swing he took.

And I am not going to believe that Tyus can't handle the job until he proves it in the regular season. All these knee jerk reactions in my opinion are meaningless at this point. Nothing has been determined at this point except the need to continue to improve.

Let's keep in mind Flip hasn't said he is absolutely going to add a guard to the team but he basically said its a good idea. That makes sense why?

When Flip traded Bud away that left the Wolves with 2 vet perimeter players in Martin and Rubio. Both guys are health concerns so if one goes down you are left with one vet guy for the entire team on the perimeter. I also tend to think Flip said that with a couple guys in mind he would either go after or thought he might be able to get that would be more than just a token vet.

Q last year kept saying the difference between JJ and Mo and a number of other backups wasn't too significant. That's the same today I don't see much separation between Pablo and most of the the other guys available. That isn't an arguement for Pablo just that the PGs/combo guards available are only so inspiring.

My plan going forward was adding a legit young talent behind Rubio as either a backup or if all goes well COULD take over for him if it turns out he can't stay healthy or can't get it done. Tyus is that guy to me and I know some just don't value him and that's fair enough but he was pretty successful in college and is very young. I don't see how it's much different than what the Spurs did taking Joseph in 2011 at #29. Sure they let him go this year but that's probably because they have Patty Mills who they have signed for a couple years and has had some pretty good success. The Spurs seem to always add talent various ways and somehow end up with too much of it. It would be nice to have that problem.

sjm34 wrote:I think the wolves need to actually have a blueprint and stick to it for more than one season. I think it starts with drafting young talent for our core, and we now have that (hopefully). Second it requires filling in some vets like KG, Martin etc, to help steer the young guys in the right direction, check. Third we need to understand how to move forward, and that requires winning BB games, which isn't going to have any chance of happening with the current roster if Ricky goes down.

I think the Tyus pick was a waste of time, mainly because I don't believe it should be part of our blueprint. I think we need to understand that our picks should fill one of two needs at this point. The first is adding to the core which means the player should have significant upside, and the second is a "ready to play" back up player. That means in most cases a guy that has played in college for 3-4 seasons and developed his game already, or a Euro type guy that is a little older. We already have plenty of young guys to develop for our core at this point.

Since we didn't fill out our back up PG role correctly, I believe we need grab someone like Chalmers. We have a TE that I believe would accommodate his salary, and we may be able to grab a second rounder as well for our trouble. It has been rumored that Riley is looking to unload him.

I agree completely.

Tyus / Brown vs Vet PG comes down to how many wins does it add to the year if you have a vet PG vice what we already have? With the current market you'd have a hard time convincing me of a number larger than 5 and that's if Rubio went down today. It's more of a reflection of the current market, now if you can add someone better via trade then it boils down to what are you giving up and how much better does it make the team?

I think you add a vet PG for 2 reasons.

1. You don't think Jones is ready
2. It will do the young core more harm then good to have Jones struggle trying to learn the game in the line of fire. (Wiggins, Towns, LaVine)

khans2k5 wrote:I prefer to do as the Spurs do and they consistently had 3 PG's while they developed Corey Joseph. Then when Parker would inevitably miss games they would start Joseph and keep the backup in his normal role like we did with Mo and Zach last year initially. Then if Jones doesn't have it you can have him come off the bench and let the vet backup play with the starting unit. Joseph was brought along slowly, but still got playing time to develop whenever Parker wouldn't play. What if Ricky only misses 20 games? We shouldn't mail in a season playing Tyus and Lavine at PG in those 20 games. The PG stirs the drink so relying on guys who aren't ready affects everyone, not just that player.

I agree with everything you say here. However, it's a little ironic that you cite Corey Joseph as an example of patient development when you have insisted previously that young players can't develop without getting 20+ MPG.

BTW, Corey Joseph has yet to average 20 MPG in any of his four NBA seasons and didn't even play over 1,000 minutes until last season.

Pablo has one year, 1.7 mil remaining on his contract. I think he is really good fit as a veteran PG that helps the team while we wait for Tyus to transition to being an NBA backup PG.

I believe with the worst record in the league, the Wolves get first dibs on Pablo off the waiver wire. If Flip wants that vet backup PG, I doubt he will find one better than Pablo, let alone at this price, for the remainder of the offseason. I will be somewhat disappointed if we don't grab him.

60WinTim wrote:Pablo has one year, 1.7 mil remaining on his contract. I think he is really good fit as a veteran PG that helps the team while we wait for Tyus to transition to being an NBA backup PG.

I believe with the worst record in the league, the Wolves get first dibs on Pablo off the waiver wire. If Flip wants that vet backup PG, I doubt he will find one, let alone at this price, for the remainder of the offseason. I will be somewhat disappointed if we don't grab him.

I agree Tim it's unlikely Flip would find a vet PG any cheaper.

I know Pablo can't decide where he wants to go on waivers but I would imagine Flip would want to gauge his interest in being here before putting in a claim. I don't see him being a problem guy if we claimed him but if you bring in a vet guy like that you would want to make sure he was bought in. Also it's possible Pablo could do better finaciallly of he doesn't get claimed. He gets $440k no matter what and maybe someone including the Wolves has a little more to offer than the vet min. It likely won't be a huge difference but hey a few hundred thousand ain't bad to pick up if you can I guess. Lol

The other reason I could see Flip not putting in a claim is off he thinks he has a shot at some better guys. People have mentioned Chalmers as a possible option. Maybe Flip has an offer in on him already for a straight up Trade exception and Riley is holding out for an offer from other teams for a 2nd rounder. Honestly I am a little conflicted on Chalmers there always seems like there is something a little off with him so that worries me. Still overall he should be better than Pablo and maybe there are a couple other options out there we don't know about.

monsterpile wrote:

60WinTim wrote:Pablo has one year, 1.7 mil remaining on his contract. I think he is really good fit as a veteran PG that helps the team while we wait for Tyus to transition to being an NBA backup PG.

I believe with the worst record in the league, the Wolves get first dibs on Pablo off the waiver wire. If Flip wants that vet backup PG, I doubt he will find one, let alone at this price, for the remainder of the offseason. I will be somewhat disappointed if we don't grab him.

I agree Tim it's unlikely Flip would find a vet PG any cheaper.

I know Pablo can't decide where he wants to go on waivers but I would imagine Flip would want to gauge his interest in being here before putting in a claim. I don't see him being a problem guy if we claimed him but if you bring in a vet guy like that you would want to make sure he was bought in. Also it's possible Pablo could do better finaciallly of he doesn't get claimed. He gets $440k no matter what and maybe someone including the Wolves has a little more to offer than the vet min. It likely won't be a huge difference but hey a few hundred thousand ain't bad to pick up if you can I guess. Lol

The other reason I could see Flip not putting in a claim is off he thinks he has a shot at some better guys. People have mentioned Chalmers as a possible option. Maybe Flip has an offer in on him already for a straight up Trade exception and Riley is holding out for an offer from other teams for a 2nd rounder. Honestly I am a little conflicted on Chalmers there always seems like there is something a little off with him so that worries me. Still overall he should be better than Pablo and maybe there are a couple other options out there we don't know about.

I think the thing with Chalmers you're referencing is he's overly arrogant and cocky for someone with his limited skillset and athleticism. His demeanor suggests he should be better than he is, but he's still a decent player. Exhibit B: Nick Young.

When it comes to Pablo, you know the exact person that is going to be left off the roster should you bring him in, and that's Lorenzo Brown. Brown is not a good player, primarily because he turns the ball over too much and isn't a good shooter, but he is only 24 and does have room to grow. If you want to claim Pablo off waivers, I think Flip would totally consider it given he brought in Neal last year without caring if he wanted to be here or not, and ultimately Neal played decently and he wasn't a jerk about it. I think Flip has a way of convincing guys they are wanted and needed, and it's sufficient to buy a year of mentoring out of them.

With that said, I wouldn't hate the move, but I would rather develop what we have as those players (Brown, Jones) hopefully can be the depth this team needs in the long-term, whereas Pablo will be gone almost guaranteed after this season.

GymRat wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

60WinTim wrote:Pablo has one year, 1.7 mil remaining on his contract. I think he is really good fit as a veteran PG that helps the team while we wait for Tyus to transition to being an NBA backup PG.

I believe with the worst record in the league, the Wolves get first dibs on Pablo off the waiver wire. If Flip wants that vet backup PG, I doubt he will find one, let alone at this price, for the remainder of the offseason. I will be somewhat disappointed if we don't grab him.

I agree Tim it's unlikely Flip would find a vet PG any cheaper.

I know Pablo can't decide where he wants to go on waivers but I would imagine Flip would want to gauge his interest in being here before putting in a claim. I don't see him being a problem guy if we claimed him but if you bring in a vet guy like that you would want to make sure he was bought in. Also it's possible Pablo could do better finaciallly of he doesn't get claimed. He gets $440k no matter what and maybe someone including the Wolves has a little more to offer than the vet min. It likely won't be a huge difference but hey a few hundred thousand ain't bad to pick up if you can I guess. Lol

The other reason I could see Flip not putting in a claim is off he thinks he has a shot at some better guys. People have mentioned Chalmers as a possible option. Maybe Flip has an offer in on him already for a straight up Trade exception and Riley is holding out for an offer from other teams for a 2nd rounder. Honestly I am a little conflicted on Chalmers there always seems like there is something a little off with him so that worries me. Still overall he should be better than Pablo and maybe there are a couple other options out there we don't know about.

I think the thing with Chalmers you're referencing is he's overly arrogant and cocky for someone with his limited skillset and athleticism. His demeanor suggests he should be better than he is, but he's still a decent player. Exhibit B: Nick Young.

When it comes to Pablo, you know the exact person that is going to be left off the roster should you bring him in, and that's Lorenzo Brown. Brown is not a good player, primarily because he turns the ball over too much and isn't a good shooter, but he is only 24 and does have room to grow. If you want to claim Pablo off waivers, I think Flip would totally consider it given he brought in Neal last year without caring if he wanted to be here or not, and ultimately Neal played decently and he wasn't a jerk about it. I think Flip has a way of convincing guys they are wanted and needed, and it's sufficient to buy a year of mentoring out of them.

With that said, I wouldn't hate the move, but I would rather develop what we have as those players (Brown, Jones) hopefully can be the depth this team needs in the long-term, whereas Pablo will be gone almost guaranteed after this season.

Great post.

I also think with Chalmers he is inconsistent and when has he ever had do be a real starter as a PG? All his career he played with a Wade or Lebron or both. Last year he struggled shooting the ball from the 3point line. I am nitpicking on Chalmers as he would be a backup here but yeah how would he like being a backup?

Not only is Pablo likely gone after the coming season if the Wolves are out of the playoff picture (likely) Pablo (or any vet pg) is a candidate to be dealt around the trade deadline.