Camden wrote:I think this phrase still rings true. I've always said it, and I'm sure a lot on this board have as well. Kevin Love is our best player. Ricky Rubio is our most important player.
What does that even mean? Is "leadership" really more important then 26-14-5?
Certainly is. Spurs proved this is a team game. Rubio make this team go. They have sucked whenever he has not played and been decent when he does. They have always sucked with Love didn't play with Rubio.
This narrative that Love isn't a team player is absolute BS. So the Wolves have been decent with Rubio at PG...well thats pretty obvious since he is the only PG that Love has played with thats anything better than a fringe starter at best. I loved the threads that were bumped about Love and now people are on Ricky cause he is the guy when almost everyone just a few weeks ago was down on him moving forward. Get a grip people. Love sucks can't lead a team ball stopper not a team guy...Rubio is who we are building around he can be the guy. If Rubio is the guy people are getting excited about in this thread and actually shows that this season then Love isn't going to leave next summer book it. Serious.
I am not saying Love is not a team player. I am just saying he doesn't impact the game as much as Rubio does. A lot of that is just the importance of the PG position vs PF. The other is that Rubio is a 2 way player where Love is lucky to be an average defender.
khans2k5 wrote:Monster - How is anyone supposed to take you seriously when you call one of the best passing bigs in the game a ball stopper? Ricky may have the leadership, but he is not a number 1 option on any team. A T Wolves team counting on Ricky to be their best player will never make the playoffs in the same way Rondo hasn't been able to carry the Celtics since the big 3 left. You need both Ricky and Love to be successful. It's the fact that the rest of the team around them has not been built to cover for their weaknesses as to why we are in this predicament. Put a rim protector next to Love who can be in the right position on the roll for Ricky to feed him the ball. Put wings next to Ricky who can shoot 3's, defend opposing wings competently and handle the ball some of the time. This isn't rocket science. The building of the roster hasn't worked because we just signed talent like Pek, Martin, Brewer, etc., but that talent doesn't fit around our two core players. The ideal team would be Ricky/Love/Rim protecting, athletic C and two 3 and D wings with one of them needing to be able to handle some of the ball handling responsibilities and the other being a borderline defensive stopper to contain the opposing teams best perimeter player. None of the other 3 positions fit that mold at all as we are currently constructed.
I wasn't clear enough in my post reread it and you will see we are in absolute agreement.
Camden wrote:I think this phrase still rings true. I've always said it, and I'm sure a lot on this board have as well. Kevin Love is our best player. Ricky Rubio is our most important player.
What does that even mean? Is "leadership" really more important then 26-14-5?
Certainly is. Spurs proved this is a team game. Rubio make this team go. They have sucked whenever he has not played and been decent when he does. They have always sucked with Love didn't play with Rubio.
This narrative that Love isn't a team player is absolute BS. So the Wolves have been decent with Rubio at PG...well thats pretty obvious since he is the only PG that Love has played with thats anything better than a fringe starter at best. I loved the threads that were bumped about Love and now people are on Ricky cause he is the guy when almost everyone just a few weeks ago was down on him moving forward. Get a grip people. Love sucks can't lead a team ball stopper not a team guy...Rubio is who we are building around he can be the guy. If Rubio is the guy people are getting excited about in this thread and actually shows that this season then Love isn't going to leave next summer book it. Serious.
I am not saying Love is not a team player. I am just saying he doesn't impact the game as much as Rubio does. A lot of that is just the importance of the PG position vs PF. The other is that Rubio is a 2 way player where Love is lucky to be an average defender.
Rubio isn't a 2 way player. Love's defense is better then rubios offense. Love's offense is also better then Rubio's defense
Camden wrote:I think this phrase still rings true. I've always said it, and I'm sure a lot on this board have as well. Kevin Love is our best player. Ricky Rubio is our most important player.
What does that even mean? Is "leadership" really more important then 26-14-5?
Certainly is. Spurs proved this is a team game. Rubio make this team go. They have sucked whenever he has not played and been decent when he does. They have always sucked with Love didn't play with Rubio.
This narrative that Love isn't a team player is absolute BS. So the Wolves have been decent with Rubio at PG...well thats pretty obvious since he is the only PG that Love has played with thats anything better than a fringe starter at best. I loved the threads that were bumped about Love and now people are on Ricky cause he is the guy when almost everyone just a few weeks ago was down on him moving forward. Get a grip people. Love sucks can't lead a team ball stopper not a team guy...Rubio is who we are building around he can be the guy. If Rubio is the guy people are getting excited about in this thread and actually shows that this season then Love isn't going to leave next summer book it. Serious.
I am not saying Love is not a team player. I am just saying he doesn't impact the game as much as Rubio does. A lot of that is just the importance of the PG position vs PF. The other is that Rubio is a 2 way player where Love is lucky to be an average defender.
Sorry for the attack I thought that is what you where you were going with this. I think you understand some of my frustration because of some of the somewhat silly Love bashing. Some he deserves but some is silly. I agree with your point basically.
I think because Love isn't a 2-way player people are down-playing his impact to a certain extent. Ricky has the potential to be more of an impact player than Love but I don't think he as yet. Part of that is while Love doesn't help enough on defense Rubio's lack of scoring hurts the offense too you can't get around that and I am one of the biggest Rubio fans here. The thing is I think Flip is gonna really look for Rubio to be the guy we want Rubio to be and are talking about being in this thread. I believe in Rubio (and I actually believe in Flip as his coach) I really do but I want to see him do it before I give him credit for being such an impact or guy to build around or leader or whatever. I won't be shocked if Rubio come in this year and takes a giant leap forward as a player and becomes a reason for legit hope for this franchise. Everyone wants that so badly let's hope it happens.
Rubio isn't a 2 way player. Love's defense is better then rubios offense. Love's offense is also better then Rubio's defense
What? Advanced stats say that Rubio is the best defensive PG in the league. Even if you don't agree with statistics for some reason, you can't say that he is outside the top few. He's also a top 3 passer in the league while rebounding very well for his position. Love's defense is average at best.
You can't say Love doesn't make his teammates better. Brewer becomes a horrible signing without Love's outlet passes. That was responsible for half of Brewer's effectiveness on offense and all of his effectiveness in transition. What's going to happen to Pek when the opposing 4 is no longer guarding his man out to the 3 point line? I see a lot more help D at the rim making Pek's life much more difficult to get his shot off in the paint especially when he already has problems scoring over length. That extra defender at the rim also makes everyone else's life at the rim much tougher. Our PnR game becomes much worse without Love on the floor. He is the most lethal big in the NBA off the PnR because he can either fade for a 3 or roll to the basket and get the post up position to score that way. He is also one of the best passers out of the high post in the league.
The people who say Love doesn't make his teammates better obviously don't watch us on offense when he is off the floor because it is brutally ugly. His impact on to his teammates on the offensive end is just as great as Ricky's and PG's don't make teammates better on the defensive end. Especially ones who can't fight around screens that well. Ricky is great one on one, but his D in the PnR makes life difficult for the bigs because he can't get around screens quickly at all.
Ricky can pass the ball in lanes that most PG's can't see. Love can draw 1 of the opposing team's rim defenders to the 3 point line, he draws double teams and he is also a good passer from anywhere on the floor. The on/off court numbers are virtually the same for them both. The offense gets 11 points worse with Love off the floor while the defense stays the same. The offense gets 12 points worse with Ricky off the floor and the defense gets 1 point worse. That's not enough to say that Ricky significantly makes his teammates better while Love doesn't make them better at all. That says they both have about the same impact on the team production.
Camden wrote:I think this phrase still rings true. I've always said it, and I'm sure a lot on this board have as well. Kevin Love is our best player. Ricky Rubio is our most important player.
What does that even mean? Is "leadership" really more important then 26-14-5?
Certainly is. Spurs proved this is a team game. Rubio make this team go. They have sucked whenever he has not played and been decent when he does. They have always sucked with Love didn't play with Rubio.
This narrative that Love isn't a team player is absolute BS. So the Wolves have been decent with Rubio at PG...well thats pretty obvious since he is the only PG that Love has played with thats anything better than a fringe starter at best. I loved the threads that were bumped about Love and now people are on Ricky cause he is the guy when almost everyone just a few weeks ago was down on him moving forward. Get a grip people. Love sucks can't lead a team ball stopper not a team guy...Rubio is who we are building around he can be the guy. If Rubio is the guy people are getting excited about in this thread and actually shows that this season then Love isn't going to leave next summer book it. Serious.
I am not saying Love is not a team player. I am just saying he doesn't impact the game as much as Rubio does. A lot of that is just the importance of the PG position vs PF. The other is that Rubio is a 2 way player where Love is lucky to be an average defender.
Rubio isn't a 2 way player. Love's defense is better then rubios offense. Love's offense is also better then Rubio's defense
This is laughable. I know you like to stretch to make your points from time to time, but come on now. Awful.
Imo the way I see it is both Love and Rubio are like 1.5 way players (or some other partial number over 1 and less than 2) because while they have very good or elite elements to their game something is missing to have them be a true 2 way player. Love isn't a good defender but his rebounding helps the defense because he is elite there. Rubio obviously isn't a true 2 way player because he isn't much of a threat to score but his passing and running an offense is very good.
Both guys have to step up their game and I think Love will improve on D just look at other big men that won championships have done like Pau Gasol and Bosh. I'm not sayong Love will win championships just that those guys stepped up on that end and it was part of the reason their team took the next step. Some of Love's improvement on D will probably always be tied to whether he can be supported by the defense around him. I'm not giving him an out but that's the reality and why for the Wolves if Love stays Dieng is a huge key to making Pek and Love work. Rubio could be helped by maybe the right perimetter guy taking some pressure off him but I think its more on coaching and Rubio making progress in the scoring dept.
Camden wrote:I think this phrase still rings true. I've always said it, and I'm sure a lot on this board have as well. Kevin Love is our best player. Ricky Rubio is our most important player.
What does that even mean? Is "leadership" really more important then 26-14-5?
Certainly is. Spurs proved this is a team game. Rubio make this team go. They have sucked whenever he has not played and been decent when he does. They have always sucked with Love didn't play with Rubio.
This narrative that Love isn't a team player is absolute BS. So the Wolves have been decent with Rubio at PG...well thats pretty obvious since he is the only PG that Love has played with thats anything better than a fringe starter at best. I loved the threads that were bumped about Love and now people are on Ricky cause he is the guy when almost everyone just a few weeks ago was down on him moving forward. Get a grip people. Love sucks can't lead a team ball stopper not a team guy...Rubio is who we are building around he can be the guy. If Rubio is the guy people are getting excited about in this thread and actually shows that this season then Love isn't going to leave next summer book it. Serious.
I am not saying Love is not a team player. I am just saying he doesn't impact the game as much as Rubio does. A lot of that is just the importance of the PG position vs PF. The other is that Rubio is a 2 way player where Love is lucky to be an average defender.
Rubio isn't a 2 way player. Love's defense is better then rubios offense. Love's offense is also better then Rubio's defense
This is laughable. I know you like to stretch to make your points from time to time, but come on now. Awful.
Ricky is below average offensively< Love's average defensively
Love top 5 offensive player> Ricky's good on D but not top 5 in the NBA
Not quite sure where the stretch is. I like Ricky too, but using terms like "leadership" "making teammates better" "more important" which have no substance behind them to try to justify Rubio over Love, because Love is out the door is silly. Love is the guy, by any term, the guy you pick when starting a team, over Rubio. 10 times out of 10. If your trying to win of course
