2022-23 Western Conference Predictions.

[Monster]

I think most good basketball analysts would say the Wolves have the best defensive big in Gobert and the 2nd or 3rd best offensive big in KAT. But that's not going to get the Wolves into the top 3 or 4 in the West - not in today's NBA. The three most important positions in today's NBA are the 1, 2 and 3. All three of those positions are question marks for the Wolves. We don't know what we can expect from DLO. Will he be more consistent? Will he keep the ball moving and facilitate others effectively? Will he defend decently like last season or revert to being a poor defender? We don't know what we'll get from McDaniels. So far he's been a one-way player. And while his calling card has been defense, but he hasn't shown he can defend consistently without fouling. Edwards was terrific last season and looked like he's on the road to becoming a superstar. But he's far from being a superstar yet and he's still barely 21 years old.

All of that is a long way of saying that whether the Wolves end up a top 3-4 team will depend largely on the development and play of Edwards and McDaniels. It's been said before and I'll say it again, this team will go as far as Edwards (and McDaniels in my view) can take them. If those two become the players I think they can be sooner rather than later, then combining them with Gobert and KAT should make this team a top three finisher and title contender.

This is a good post. If ant just improves a little, I'd say we're 6 or 7. If he improves a lot we'll be top 3. I think you're correct that 1,2 and 3 are the three most important positions in today's league. And yet we decided to pay super max contracts to two 5's (and yes, kat is a 5). As per usual, I think the experts are right and the homers are wrong. I hope gobert learned how to guard perimeter players this offseason because kat won't be able to. It's a perimeter league. Yeah, this trade gets us into the playoffs as a bottom 4 seed, congrats... what a stupid move by short sighted pobo.

Who are the best players in the league? What position do they play?

Are said players that you're referring to winning championships? Are they (jokic/embiid) even coming close to winning championships? Sure they're great players, but the great perimeter players are the ones having the playoff success. The wolves will just be a treadmill team that makes the playoffs every year but doesn't threaten for titles... unless Ant breaks out. But we already had that upside with or without gobert. I'm glad you all think gobert is so great, but the problem is he doesn't really change our upside at all. We needed to either use our big move for a perimeter guy like Murray or save our big move for when the right perimeter guy came available. You didn't see Milwaukee go out an add a super max center next to Giannis... no they added the perimeter guy in holiday and it worked. We should have added a couple cheaper bigs in the mold of portis and saved our big move for a perimeter guy. Why? Because it's a perimeter league AND we already have a starting center lol.

Thanks for the response. I have a couple questions and points.

Why would you say that Jokic hasn't gotten anywhere near a championship the last 2 playoffs?

Giannis is one of the best players in the league. He is a big and he won a championship. The Bucks didn't need a max center because they already had Brook Lopez. They added Jrue Hoiday because they rightly felt they needed to upgrade Eric Bledsoe. Of course you need excellent perimeter play to win a championship.

So how many guards aren't really relevant because they haven't gotten anywhere near a championship?

[60WinTim]

Since the Wolves will win about 60 games, the only way they aren't #1 is if someone else wins more than 60... :cool:

[Coolbreeze44]

Since the Wolves will win about 60 games, the only way they aren't #1 is if someone else wins more than 60... :cool:

That's our Tim

[Lipoli390]

I think most good basketball analysts would say the Wolves have the best defensive big in Gobert and the 2nd or 3rd best offensive big in KAT. But that's not going to get the Wolves into the top 3 or 4 in the West - not in today's NBA. The three most important positions in today's NBA are the 1, 2 and 3. All three of those positions are question marks for the Wolves. We don't know what we can expect from DLO. Will he be more consistent? Will he keep the ball moving and facilitate others effectively? Will he defend decently like last season or revert to being a poor defender? We don't know what we'll get from McDaniels. So far he's been a one-way player. And while his calling card has been defense, but he hasn't shown he can defend consistently without fouling. Edwards was terrific last season and looked like he's on the road to becoming a superstar. But he's far from being a superstar yet and he's still barely 21 years old.

All of that is a long way of saying that whether the Wolves end up a top 3-4 team will depend largely on the development and play of Edwards and McDaniels. It's been said before and I'll say it again, this team will go as far as Edwards (and McDaniels in my view) can take them. If those two become the players I think they can be sooner rather than later, then combining them with Gobert and KAT should make this team a top three finisher and title contender.

This is a good post. If ant just improves a little, I'd say we're 6 or 7. If he improves a lot we'll be top 3. I think you're correct that 1,2 and 3 are the three most important positions in today's league. And yet we decided to pay super max contracts to two 5's (and yes, kat is a 5). As per usual, I think the experts are right and the homers are wrong. I hope gobert learned how to guard perimeter players this offseason because kat won't be able to. It's a perimeter league. Yeah, this trade gets us into the playoffs as a bottom 4 seed, congrats... what a stupid move by short sighted pobo.

Who are the best players in the league? What position do they play?

Are said players that you're referring to winning championships? Are they (jokic/embiid) even coming close to winning championships? Sure they're great players, but the great perimeter players are the ones having the playoff success. The wolves will just be a treadmill team that makes the playoffs every year but doesn't threaten for titles... unless Ant breaks out. But we already had that upside with or without gobert. I'm glad you all think gobert is so great, but the problem is he doesn't really change our upside at all. We needed to either use our big move for a perimeter guy like Murray or save our big move for when the right perimeter guy came available. You didn't see Milwaukee go out an add a super max center next to Giannis... no they added the perimeter guy in holiday and it worked. We should have added a couple cheaper bigs in the mold of portis and saved our big move for a perimeter guy. Why? Because it's a perimeter league AND we already have a starting center lol.

Thanks for the response. I have a couple questions and points.

Why would you say that Jokic hasn't gotten anywhere near a championship the last 2 playoffs?

Giannis is one of the best players in the league. He is a big and he won a championship. The Bucks didn't need a max center because they already had Brook Lopez. They added Jrue Hoiday because they rightly felt they needed to upgrade Eric Bledsoe. Of course you need excellent perimeter play to win a championship.

So how many guards aren't really relevant because they haven't gotten anywhere near a championship?

I don't view Giannis as a "big." Yes, he's big (as in long and strong), but he plays like a wing on both ends of the floor, slashing to the hoop with the ball in his hands and defending anyone, anywhere on the court.

You ask, who are the best players in the League? I'd say Giannis, Curry, Luka, LeBron, Durant, Tatum, Jimmy Butler, Jokic and Embiid. Two of those nine (Embiid and Jokic) are true bigs. The others are mainly wings with size or, in the case of Curry, a small PG. The only thing KAT does that is wing or guard like is shoot threes. But more importantly is the fact that those teams with a star big haven't gone out and gotten another max all-star big. The Nuggets traded Nurkic away and the Sixers brought in Harden. I have a high regard for the talents of Gobert and KAT. They set a solid floor for this team if healthy, but anything approaching championship aspirations will depend on Edwards and I think McDaniels.

A team's assets and payroll tolerance are finite. I would have preferred using fewer assets and far less payroll to acquire what a defensive stopper in the backcourt like DeJounte Murray who also averaged 20 points and nearly a triple double last season at age 25. I think that would have fit both this team and the League better than the Gobert acquisition with less risk and more assets left over for other moves and flexible maneuvering in response to unforeseen events. That would have been my preference. But if Gobert stays healthy and both Edwards and McDaniels take significant steps forward, the Gobert deal should work out well for the Wolves.

[kekgeek]

I think most good basketball analysts would say the Wolves have the best defensive big in Gobert and the 2nd or 3rd best offensive big in KAT. But that's not going to get the Wolves into the top 3 or 4 in the West - not in today's NBA. The three most important positions in today's NBA are the 1, 2 and 3. All three of those positions are question marks for the Wolves. We don't know what we can expect from DLO. Will he be more consistent? Will he keep the ball moving and facilitate others effectively? Will he defend decently like last season or revert to being a poor defender? We don't know what we'll get from McDaniels. So far he's been a one-way player. And while his calling card has been defense, but he hasn't shown he can defend consistently without fouling. Edwards was terrific last season and looked like he's on the road to becoming a superstar. But he's far from being a superstar yet and he's still barely 21 years old.

All of that is a long way of saying that whether the Wolves end up a top 3-4 team will depend largely on the development and play of Edwards and McDaniels. It's been said before and I'll say it again, this team will go as far as Edwards (and McDaniels in my view) can take them. If those two become the players I think they can be sooner rather than later, then combining them with Gobert and KAT should make this team a top three finisher and title contender.

This is a good post. If ant just improves a little, I'd say we're 6 or 7. If he improves a lot we'll be top 3. I think you're correct that 1,2 and 3 are the three most important positions in today's league. And yet we decided to pay super max contracts to two 5's (and yes, kat is a 5). As per usual, I think the experts are right and the homers are wrong. I hope gobert learned how to guard perimeter players this offseason because kat won't be able to. It's a perimeter league. Yeah, this trade gets us into the playoffs as a bottom 4 seed, congrats... what a stupid move by short sighted pobo.

Who are the best players in the league? What position do they play?

Are said players that you're referring to winning championships? Are they (jokic/embiid) even coming close to winning championships? Sure they're great players, but the great perimeter players are the ones having the playoff success. The wolves will just be a treadmill team that makes the playoffs every year but doesn't threaten for titles... unless Ant breaks out. But we already had that upside with or without gobert. I'm glad you all think gobert is so great, but the problem is he doesn't really change our upside at all. We needed to either use our big move for a perimeter guy like Murray or save our big move for when the right perimeter guy came available. You didn't see Milwaukee go out an add a super max center next to Giannis... no they added the perimeter guy in holiday and it worked. We should have added a couple cheaper bigs in the mold of portis and saved our big move for a perimeter guy. Why? Because it's a perimeter league AND we already have a starting center lol.

Thanks for the response. I have a couple questions and points.

Why would you say that Jokic hasn't gotten anywhere near a championship the last 2 playoffs?

Giannis is one of the best players in the league. He is a big and he won a championship. The Bucks didn't need a max center because they already had Brook Lopez. They added Jrue Hoiday because they rightly felt they needed to upgrade Eric Bledsoe. Of course you need excellent perimeter play to win a championship.

So how many guards aren't really relevant because they haven't gotten anywhere near a championship?

Exactly Monster. Lets look at recent NBA history and see who is doing well. The Lakers won a title with their 2nd best player Anthony Davis being a big. The Bucks won a title with their best player being a big in Giannis. The warriors are a little exception but Green and Looney played a key parts to the puzzle and they thought a big was neccessary also because they selected a big #2 overall instead of a wing or guard. The celtics made the finals and they started 2 bigs in Robert Williams and Horford. The Heat have made a Finals and ECF 2 of the last 3 years and their 2nd best player is Bam who is a big. Jokic made the WCF a year ago as a big, Ayton made a finals and he is a top 7 center in the NBA.

I do agree generally bigs can't be your best player to win a championship and that is why the Wolves have Ant. I don't think anyone would disagree that Ant needs to be the wolves best player to win a championship but to say they were dumb because the league doesn't win with bigs is lazy analysis in my opinion especially looking at recent history.

[Q-is-here]

There is a bit of a long-game with this too. Part of the logic of pulling the trigger on this deal was to significantly raise the floor of the team such that the playoffs were no longer in doubt. Ant and Jaden getting significant minutes in playoff series early in their careers will hopefully better prepare them for future playoff series in their mid to late 20s when they peak as players.

I think to some degree we have seen with KAT and DLO what happens when you aren't on very competitive teams early in your career. Both these guys were too inconsistent in the Memphis series and have to share some blame in the meltdowns with those big leads.

[Lipoli390]

I think most good basketball analysts would say the Wolves have the best defensive big in Gobert and the 2nd or 3rd best offensive big in KAT. But that's not going to get the Wolves into the top 3 or 4 in the West - not in today's NBA. The three most important positions in today's NBA are the 1, 2 and 3. All three of those positions are question marks for the Wolves. We don't know what we can expect from DLO. Will he be more consistent? Will he keep the ball moving and facilitate others effectively? Will he defend decently like last season or revert to being a poor defender? We don't know what we'll get from McDaniels. So far he's been a one-way player. And while his calling card has been defense, but he hasn't shown he can defend consistently without fouling. Edwards was terrific last season and looked like he's on the road to becoming a superstar. But he's far from being a superstar yet and he's still barely 21 years old.

All of that is a long way of saying that whether the Wolves end up a top 3-4 team will depend largely on the development and play of Edwards and McDaniels. It's been said before and I'll say it again, this team will go as far as Edwards (and McDaniels in my view) can take them. If those two become the players I think they can be sooner rather than later, then combining them with Gobert and KAT should make this team a top three finisher and title contender.

This is a good post. If ant just improves a little, I'd say we're 6 or 7. If he improves a lot we'll be top 3. I think you're correct that 1,2 and 3 are the three most important positions in today's league. And yet we decided to pay super max contracts to two 5's (and yes, kat is a 5). As per usual, I think the experts are right and the homers are wrong. I hope gobert learned how to guard perimeter players this offseason because kat won't be able to. It's a perimeter league. Yeah, this trade gets us into the playoffs as a bottom 4 seed, congrats... what a stupid move by short sighted pobo.

Who are the best players in the league? What position do they play?

Are said players that you're referring to winning championships? Are they (jokic/embiid) even coming close to winning championships? Sure they're great players, but the great perimeter players are the ones having the playoff success. The wolves will just be a treadmill team that makes the playoffs every year but doesn't threaten for titles... unless Ant breaks out. But we already had that upside with or without gobert. I'm glad you all think gobert is so great, but the problem is he doesn't really change our upside at all. We needed to either use our big move for a perimeter guy like Murray or save our big move for when the right perimeter guy came available. You didn't see Milwaukee go out an add a super max center next to Giannis... no they added the perimeter guy in holiday and it worked. We should have added a couple cheaper bigs in the mold of portis and saved our big move for a perimeter guy. Why? Because it's a perimeter league AND we already have a starting center lol.

Thanks for the response. I have a couple questions and points.

Why would you say that Jokic hasn't gotten anywhere near a championship the last 2 playoffs?

Giannis is one of the best players in the league. He is a big and he won a championship. The Bucks didn't need a max center because they already had Brook Lopez. They added Jrue Hoiday because they rightly felt they needed to upgrade Eric Bledsoe. Of course you need excellent perimeter play to win a championship.

So how many guards aren't really relevant because they haven't gotten anywhere near a championship?

Exactly Monster. Lets look at recent NBA history and see who is doing well. The Lakers won a title with their 2nd best player Anthony Davis being a big. The Bucks won a title with their best player being a big in Giannis. The warriors are a little exception but Green and Looney played a key parts to the puzzle and they thought a big was neccessary also because they selected a big #2 overall instead of a wing or guard. The celtics made the finals and they started 2 bigs in Robert Williams and Horford. The Heat have made a Finals and ECF 2 of the last 3 years and their 2nd best player is Bam who is a big. Jokic made the WCF a year ago as a big, Ayton made a finals and he is a top 7 center in the NBA.

I do agree generally bigs can't be your best player to win a championship and that is why the Wolves have Ant. I don't think anyone would disagree that Ant needs to be the wolves best player to win a championship but to say they were dumb because the league doesn't win with bigs is lazy analysis in my opinion especially looking at recent history.

Again, I don't consider Giannis a big. He's a big wing. Yes, the Celtics started two bigs, but those two weren't among their top two or even their top 3 players. Ayton was the 3rd or 4th best player on the Suns behind guards and wings named Devin Booker and Chris Paul - and maybe Mikal Bridges. Yes, Anthony Davis was the 2nd-best player on the championship Lakers while Bam was the 2nd-best player on the Heat who made the finals last season.

The point is that none of those teams relied on bigs as their two best and highest paid players. In cases where a big was one of the top two on the team, he was the 2nd-best player. It just comes back to my point that the key for the Wolves will be Edwards - and to a lesser but important extent, McDaniels. If our starting SG were Tyler Herro instead of Anthony Edwards, the Gobert deal would have been really dumb. As Draymond Green suggested, it's Edwards that makes the Gobert deal potentially a really good one for the Wolves. If Edwards and McDaniels play up to or near their capabilities, then pairing them with both KAT and Gobert makes the Wolves a really formidable team and I believe a championship contender. Otherwise, the Wolves are a 7th seed or play-in team.

[Monster]

I think most good basketball analysts would say the Wolves have the best defensive big in Gobert and the 2nd or 3rd best offensive big in KAT. But that's not going to get the Wolves into the top 3 or 4 in the West - not in today's NBA. The three most important positions in today's NBA are the 1, 2 and 3. All three of those positions are question marks for the Wolves. We don't know what we can expect from DLO. Will he be more consistent? Will he keep the ball moving and facilitate others effectively? Will he defend decently like last season or revert to being a poor defender? We don't know what we'll get from McDaniels. So far he's been a one-way player. And while his calling card has been defense, but he hasn't shown he can defend consistently without fouling. Edwards was terrific last season and looked like he's on the road to becoming a superstar. But he's far from being a superstar yet and he's still barely 21 years old.

All of that is a long way of saying that whether the Wolves end up a top 3-4 team will depend largely on the development and play of Edwards and McDaniels. It's been said before and I'll say it again, this team will go as far as Edwards (and McDaniels in my view) can take them. If those two become the players I think they can be sooner rather than later, then combining them with Gobert and KAT should make this team a top three finisher and title contender.

This is a good post. If ant just improves a little, I'd say we're 6 or 7. If he improves a lot we'll be top 3. I think you're correct that 1,2 and 3 are the three most important positions in today's league. And yet we decided to pay super max contracts to two 5's (and yes, kat is a 5). As per usual, I think the experts are right and the homers are wrong. I hope gobert learned how to guard perimeter players this offseason because kat won't be able to. It's a perimeter league. Yeah, this trade gets us into the playoffs as a bottom 4 seed, congrats... what a stupid move by short sighted pobo.

Who are the best players in the league? What position do they play?

Are said players that you're referring to winning championships? Are they (jokic/embiid) even coming close to winning championships? Sure they're great players, but the great perimeter players are the ones having the playoff success. The wolves will just be a treadmill team that makes the playoffs every year but doesn't threaten for titles... unless Ant breaks out. But we already had that upside with or without gobert. I'm glad you all think gobert is so great, but the problem is he doesn't really change our upside at all. We needed to either use our big move for a perimeter guy like Murray or save our big move for when the right perimeter guy came available. You didn't see Milwaukee go out an add a super max center next to Giannis... no they added the perimeter guy in holiday and it worked. We should have added a couple cheaper bigs in the mold of portis and saved our big move for a perimeter guy. Why? Because it's a perimeter league AND we already have a starting center lol.

Thanks for the response. I have a couple questions and points.

Why would you say that Jokic hasn't gotten anywhere near a championship the last 2 playoffs?

Giannis is one of the best players in the league. He is a big and he won a championship. The Bucks didn't need a max center because they already had Brook Lopez. They added Jrue Hoiday because they rightly felt they needed to upgrade Eric Bledsoe. Of course you need excellent perimeter play to win a championship.

So how many guards aren't really relevant because they haven't gotten anywhere near a championship?

Exactly Monster. Lets look at recent NBA history and see who is doing well. The Lakers won a title with their 2nd best player Anthony Davis being a big. The Bucks won a title with their best player being a big in Giannis. The warriors are a little exception but Green and Looney played a key parts to the puzzle and they thought a big was neccessary also because they selected a big #2 overall instead of a wing or guard. The celtics made the finals and they started 2 bigs in Robert Williams and Horford. The Heat have made a Finals and ECF 2 of the last 3 years and their 2nd best player is Bam who is a big. Jokic made the WCF a year ago as a big, Ayton made a finals and he is a top 7 center in the NBA.

I do agree generally bigs can't be your best player to win a championship and that is why the Wolves have Ant. I don't think anyone would disagree that Ant needs to be the wolves best player to win a championship but to say they were dumb because the league doesn't win with bigs is lazy analysis in my opinion especially looking at recent history.

Again, I don't consider Giannis a big. He's a big wing. Yes, the Celtics started two bigs, but those two weren't among their top two or even their top 3 players. Ayton was the 3rd or 4th best player on the Suns behind guards and wings named Devin Booker and Chris Paul - and maybe Mikal Bridges. Yes, Anthony Davis was the 2nd-best player on the championship Lakers while Bam was the 2nd-best player on the Heat who made the finals last season.

The point is that none of those teams relied on bigs as their two best and highest paid players. In cases where a big was one of the top two on the team, he was the 2nd-best player. It just comes back to my point that the key for the Wolves will be Edwards - and to a lesser but important extent, McDaniels. If our starting SG were Tyler Herro instead of Anthony Edwards, the Gobert deal would have been really dumb. As Draymond Green suggested, it's Edwards that makes the Gobert deal potentially a really good one for the Wolves. If Edwards and McDaniels play up to or near their capabilities, then pairing them with both KAT and Gobert makes the Wolves a really formidable team and I believe a championship contender. Otherwise, the Wolves are a 7th seed or play-in team.

Jokic is a center that plays PG. Is he guard then? :)

When the Bucks won the title in the finals Giannis absolutely played like a big. I'd argue that's exactly why they won. I won't argue that he is also sort of a big wing but he does actually play like a big. In a similar vein KG could easily be considered a big wing too but he was absolutely a big.

I'm simply pushing back on the idea that's it's a guard league. I don't think that's unequivocally true especially when teams that win championships are good defensive teams and often that has something to do with excellent defense from big players.

Interestingly the top 3 picks in this draft were all guys 6'10" or bigger. Did those teams screw up drafting those guys in a guard league?

[Lipoli390]

I think most good basketball analysts would say the Wolves have the best defensive big in Gobert and the 2nd or 3rd best offensive big in KAT. But that's not going to get the Wolves into the top 3 or 4 in the West - not in today's NBA. The three most important positions in today's NBA are the 1, 2 and 3. All three of those positions are question marks for the Wolves. We don't know what we can expect from DLO. Will he be more consistent? Will he keep the ball moving and facilitate others effectively? Will he defend decently like last season or revert to being a poor defender? We don't know what we'll get from McDaniels. So far he's been a one-way player. And while his calling card has been defense, but he hasn't shown he can defend consistently without fouling. Edwards was terrific last season and looked like he's on the road to becoming a superstar. But he's far from being a superstar yet and he's still barely 21 years old.

All of that is a long way of saying that whether the Wolves end up a top 3-4 team will depend largely on the development and play of Edwards and McDaniels. It's been said before and I'll say it again, this team will go as far as Edwards (and McDaniels in my view) can take them. If those two become the players I think they can be sooner rather than later, then combining them with Gobert and KAT should make this team a top three finisher and title contender.

This is a good post. If ant just improves a little, I'd say we're 6 or 7. If he improves a lot we'll be top 3. I think you're correct that 1,2 and 3 are the three most important positions in today's league. And yet we decided to pay super max contracts to two 5's (and yes, kat is a 5). As per usual, I think the experts are right and the homers are wrong. I hope gobert learned how to guard perimeter players this offseason because kat won't be able to. It's a perimeter league. Yeah, this trade gets us into the playoffs as a bottom 4 seed, congrats... what a stupid move by short sighted pobo.

Who are the best players in the league? What position do they play?

Are said players that you're referring to winning championships? Are they (jokic/embiid) even coming close to winning championships? Sure they're great players, but the great perimeter players are the ones having the playoff success. The wolves will just be a treadmill team that makes the playoffs every year but doesn't threaten for titles... unless Ant breaks out. But we already had that upside with or without gobert. I'm glad you all think gobert is so great, but the problem is he doesn't really change our upside at all. We needed to either use our big move for a perimeter guy like Murray or save our big move for when the right perimeter guy came available. You didn't see Milwaukee go out an add a super max center next to Giannis... no they added the perimeter guy in holiday and it worked. We should have added a couple cheaper bigs in the mold of portis and saved our big move for a perimeter guy. Why? Because it's a perimeter league AND we already have a starting center lol.

Thanks for the response. I have a couple questions and points.

Why would you say that Jokic hasn't gotten anywhere near a championship the last 2 playoffs?

Giannis is one of the best players in the league. He is a big and he won a championship. The Bucks didn't need a max center because they already had Brook Lopez. They added Jrue Hoiday because they rightly felt they needed to upgrade Eric Bledsoe. Of course you need excellent perimeter play to win a championship.

So how many guards aren't really relevant because they haven't gotten anywhere near a championship?

Exactly Monster. Lets look at recent NBA history and see who is doing well. The Lakers won a title with their 2nd best player Anthony Davis being a big. The Bucks won a title with their best player being a big in Giannis. The warriors are a little exception but Green and Looney played a key parts to the puzzle and they thought a big was neccessary also because they selected a big #2 overall instead of a wing or guard. The celtics made the finals and they started 2 bigs in Robert Williams and Horford. The Heat have made a Finals and ECF 2 of the last 3 years and their 2nd best player is Bam who is a big. Jokic made the WCF a year ago as a big, Ayton made a finals and he is a top 7 center in the NBA.

I do agree generally bigs can't be your best player to win a championship and that is why the Wolves have Ant. I don't think anyone would disagree that Ant needs to be the wolves best player to win a championship but to say they were dumb because the league doesn't win with bigs is lazy analysis in my opinion especially looking at recent history.

Again, I don't consider Giannis a big. He's a big wing. Yes, the Celtics started two bigs, but those two weren't among their top two or even their top 3 players. Ayton was the 3rd or 4th best player on the Suns behind guards and wings named Devin Booker and Chris Paul - and maybe Mikal Bridges. Yes, Anthony Davis was the 2nd-best player on the championship Lakers while Bam was the 2nd-best player on the Heat who made the finals last season.

The point is that none of those teams relied on bigs as their two best and highest paid players. In cases where a big was one of the top two on the team, he was the 2nd-best player. It just comes back to my point that the key for the Wolves will be Edwards - and to a lesser but important extent, McDaniels. If our starting SG were Tyler Herro instead of Anthony Edwards, the Gobert deal would have been really dumb. As Draymond Green suggested, it's Edwards that makes the Gobert deal potentially a really good one for the Wolves. If Edwards and McDaniels play up to or near their capabilities, then pairing them with both KAT and Gobert makes the Wolves a really formidable team and I believe a championship contender. Otherwise, the Wolves are a 7th seed or play-in team.

Jokic is a center that plays PG. Is he guard then? :)

When the Bucks won the title in the finals Giannis absolutely played like a big. I'd argue that's exactly why they won. I won't argue that he is also sort of a big wing but he does actually play like a big. In a similar vein KG could easily be considered a big wing too but he was absolutely a big.

I'm simply pushing back on the idea that's it's a guard league. I don't think that's unequivocally true especially when teams that win championships are good defensive teams and often that has something to do with excellent defense from big players.

Interestingly the top 3 picks in this draft were all guys 6'10" or bigger. Did those teams screw up drafting those guys in a guard league?

It's a guards/wings league. When I think of a wing versus a big on the offensive end, I think of someone who takes the ball at the top of the key and makes things happen with a combination of dribble penetration and jump shots. On the defensive end, it's a guy who defends the other team's guards and wings regardless. That's not Embiid, Gobert, Jokic or even KAT. But it's definitely Giannis as well as Luka, Butler and Tatum. And of course, it's Curry, Booker, Chris Paul, Paul George and Kawhi Leonard. All of those guys can guard any position effectively on the defensive end and dominate the ball on the offensive end. KAT and Jokic are both better perimeter shooters than Giannis, but they don't do things with the ball that Giannis does or guard the perimeter the way he can.

[Monster]

I think most good basketball analysts would say the Wolves have the best defensive big in Gobert and the 2nd or 3rd best offensive big in KAT. But that's not going to get the Wolves into the top 3 or 4 in the West - not in today's NBA. The three most important positions in today's NBA are the 1, 2 and 3. All three of those positions are question marks for the Wolves. We don't know what we can expect from DLO. Will he be more consistent? Will he keep the ball moving and facilitate others effectively? Will he defend decently like last season or revert to being a poor defender? We don't know what we'll get from McDaniels. So far he's been a one-way player. And while his calling card has been defense, but he hasn't shown he can defend consistently without fouling. Edwards was terrific last season and looked like he's on the road to becoming a superstar. But he's far from being a superstar yet and he's still barely 21 years old.

All of that is a long way of saying that whether the Wolves end up a top 3-4 team will depend largely on the development and play of Edwards and McDaniels. It's been said before and I'll say it again, this team will go as far as Edwards (and McDaniels in my view) can take them. If those two become the players I think they can be sooner rather than later, then combining them with Gobert and KAT should make this team a top three finisher and title contender.

This is a good post. If ant just improves a little, I'd say we're 6 or 7. If he improves a lot we'll be top 3. I think you're correct that 1,2 and 3 are the three most important positions in today's league. And yet we decided to pay super max contracts to two 5's (and yes, kat is a 5). As per usual, I think the experts are right and the homers are wrong. I hope gobert learned how to guard perimeter players this offseason because kat won't be able to. It's a perimeter league. Yeah, this trade gets us into the playoffs as a bottom 4 seed, congrats... what a stupid move by short sighted pobo.

Who are the best players in the league? What position do they play?

Are said players that you're referring to winning championships? Are they (jokic/embiid) even coming close to winning championships? Sure they're great players, but the great perimeter players are the ones having the playoff success. The wolves will just be a treadmill team that makes the playoffs every year but doesn't threaten for titles... unless Ant breaks out. But we already had that upside with or without gobert. I'm glad you all think gobert is so great, but the problem is he doesn't really change our upside at all. We needed to either use our big move for a perimeter guy like Murray or save our big move for when the right perimeter guy came available. You didn't see Milwaukee go out an add a super max center next to Giannis... no they added the perimeter guy in holiday and it worked. We should have added a couple cheaper bigs in the mold of portis and saved our big move for a perimeter guy. Why? Because it's a perimeter league AND we already have a starting center lol.

Thanks for the response. I have a couple questions and points.

Why would you say that Jokic hasn't gotten anywhere near a championship the last 2 playoffs?

Giannis is one of the best players in the league. He is a big and he won a championship. The Bucks didn't need a max center because they already had Brook Lopez. They added Jrue Hoiday because they rightly felt they needed to upgrade Eric Bledsoe. Of course you need excellent perimeter play to win a championship.

So how many guards aren't really relevant because they haven't gotten anywhere near a championship?

Exactly Monster. Lets look at recent NBA history and see who is doing well. The Lakers won a title with their 2nd best player Anthony Davis being a big. The Bucks won a title with their best player being a big in Giannis. The warriors are a little exception but Green and Looney played a key parts to the puzzle and they thought a big was neccessary also because they selected a big #2 overall instead of a wing or guard. The celtics made the finals and they started 2 bigs in Robert Williams and Horford. The Heat have made a Finals and ECF 2 of the last 3 years and their 2nd best player is Bam who is a big. Jokic made the WCF a year ago as a big, Ayton made a finals and he is a top 7 center in the NBA.

I do agree generally bigs can't be your best player to win a championship and that is why the Wolves have Ant. I don't think anyone would disagree that Ant needs to be the wolves best player to win a championship but to say they were dumb because the league doesn't win with bigs is lazy analysis in my opinion especially looking at recent history.

Again, I don't consider Giannis a big. He's a big wing. Yes, the Celtics started two bigs, but those two weren't among their top two or even their top 3 players. Ayton was the 3rd or 4th best player on the Suns behind guards and wings named Devin Booker and Chris Paul - and maybe Mikal Bridges. Yes, Anthony Davis was the 2nd-best player on the championship Lakers while Bam was the 2nd-best player on the Heat who made the finals last season.

The point is that none of those teams relied on bigs as their two best and highest paid players. In cases where a big was one of the top two on the team, he was the 2nd-best player. It just comes back to my point that the key for the Wolves will be Edwards - and to a lesser but important extent, McDaniels. If our starting SG were Tyler Herro instead of Anthony Edwards, the Gobert deal would have been really dumb. As Draymond Green suggested, it's Edwards that makes the Gobert deal potentially a really good one for the Wolves. If Edwards and McDaniels play up to or near their capabilities, then pairing them with both KAT and Gobert makes the Wolves a really formidable team and I believe a championship contender. Otherwise, the Wolves are a 7th seed or play-in team.

Jokic is a center that plays PG. Is he guard then? :)

When the Bucks won the title in the finals Giannis absolutely played like a big. I'd argue that's exactly why they won. I won't argue that he is also sort of a big wing but he does actually play like a big. In a similar vein KG could easily be considered a big wing too but he was absolutely a big.

I'm simply pushing back on the idea that's it's a guard league. I don't think that's unequivocally true especially when teams that win championships are good defensive teams and often that has something to do with excellent defense from big players.

Interestingly the top 3 picks in this draft were all guys 6'10" or bigger. Did those teams screw up drafting those guys in a guard league?

It's a guards/wings league. When I think of a wing versus a big on the offensive end, I think of someone who takes the ball at the top of the key and makes things happen with a combination of dribble penetration and jump shots. On the defensive end, it's a guy who defends the other team's guards and wings regardless. That's not Embiid, Gobert, Jokic or even KAT. But it's definitely Giannis as well as Luka, Butler and Tatum. And of course, it's Curry, Booker, Chris Paul, Paul George and Kawhi Leonard. All of those guys can guard any position effectively on the defensive end and dominate the ball on the offensive end. KAT and Jokic are both better perimeter shooters than Giannis, but they don't do things with the ball that Giannis does or guard the perimeter the way he can.

What do you consider Anthony Davis?