Minnesota Sports Forum

35 wins but even that will feel a disappointment when season is over.

I'll go with 29. We start out well like Cam thought but then Malik goes into the crowd and attacks a cardboard fan and things go downhill.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:You guys are bringing me down... and I'm the guy who's usually a pessimist.

If this team with two max contract guys in their primes... and the #1 pick in the draft can't even flirt with a .500 record... what are we doing?

Granted, I don't think they can reach .500 either. But I usually rely on you guys for some optimism. If even some of you think they're gonna suck balls... then I'm even more leery than normal.

... oh... oh.... buckle up.... Rant... coming....

Personally, I thought it was suspect when Rosas inherited a 36 - 46 team (which was 32 - 37 after the Butler sabotage)... and told us it was a complete rebuild many years in the making. That's an old bullshit GM trick that we fell for. Despite moving all this deck furniture around, we might reach that lofty "the sky is falling" 36 - 46 record NEXT season?

Because the cavalry aint coming. This is it. This is the team. We can keep talking about each and every player improving... but this is the NBA. This is the Timbewolves. That's not how it works. Derrick Williams didn't get better. Darko didn't change. Wes Johnson. Jonny Flynn. Wiggins. Et al.

Some guys do improve and become quality players for winning teams. MOST... do not. We simply can't count on Edwards, Culver, Okogie and even DLO and Towns all getting better. This is a crazy thought, but some even get worse!

I'm not a kneejerk reactionary guy. I want to believe that Russell and Towns need more than one lousy game together before we start anew. But think about what we're in the middle of... I feel like we're being duped a bit, even if the new regime hits it big with Edwards.

- Inherit a team just below .500 in a ravaged, mutiny-filled season.
- Talk the fanbase into a complete rebuild... despite having an All NBA and iconic star big man on the roster.
- Swinging for the fences with all three draft picks.
- Tempered expectations where we MIGHT be able to get back to a record we were at when it was described as a teardown project.

I've said it before... we live in a very self-serving society. And it's wise for GMs to downplay the previous regime to buy themselves more time. I just don't know why we of all fanbases fall for it.

If we can't or shouldn't hope that other young guys you mentioned be part of the turnaround of this team move it to Seattle and let's get on with our lives. Good teams have good players they draft and develop. I get where you are coming from but I'm not lowering my expectations for what SHOULD happen for this franchise in them being a legit playoff team for a run of a few years. I'm done with championship or bust let's be like good and stuff.

monsterpile wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:You guys are bringing me down... and I'm the guy who's usually a pessimist.

If this team with two max contract guys in their primes... and the #1 pick in the draft can't even flirt with a .500 record... what are we doing?

Granted, I don't think they can reach .500 either. But I usually rely on you guys for some optimism. If even some of you think they're gonna suck balls... then I'm even more leery than normal.

... oh... oh.... buckle up.... Rant... coming....

Personally, I thought it was suspect when Rosas inherited a 36 - 46 team (which was 32 - 37 after the Butler sabotage)... and told us it was a complete rebuild many years in the making. That's an old bullshit GM trick that we fell for. Despite moving all this deck furniture around, we might reach that lofty "the sky is falling" 36 - 46 record NEXT season?

Because the cavalry aint coming. This is it. This is the team. We can keep talking about each and every player improving... but this is the NBA. This is the Timbewolves. That's not how it works. Derrick Williams didn't get better. Darko didn't change. Wes Johnson. Jonny Flynn. Wiggins. Et al.

Some guys do improve and become quality players for winning teams. MOST... do not. We simply can't count on Edwards, Culver, Okogie and even DLO and Towns all getting better. This is a crazy thought, but some even get worse!

I'm not a kneejerk reactionary guy. I want to believe that Russell and Towns need more than one lousy game together before we start anew. But think about what we're in the middle of... I feel like we're being duped a bit, even if the new regime hits it big with Edwards.

- Inherit a team just below .500 in a ravaged, mutiny-filled season.
- Talk the fanbase into a complete rebuild... despite having an All NBA and iconic star big man on the roster.
- Swinging for the fences with all three draft picks.
- Tempered expectations where we MIGHT be able to get back to a record we were at when it was described as a teardown project.

I've said it before... we live in a very self-serving society. And it's wise for GMs to downplay the previous regime to buy themselves more time. I just don't know why we of all fanbases fall for it.

If we can't or shouldn't hope that other young guys you mentioned be part of the turnaround of this team move it to Seattle and let's get on with our lives. Good teams have good players they draft and develop. I get where you are coming from but I'm not lowering my expectations for what SHOULD happen for this franchise in them being a legit playoff team for a run of a few years. I'm done with championship or bust let's be like good and stuff.

Of course we have to hope that young players improve. But all of them can't improve. It's simply not realistic. Yet, that's what we've been asked to believe in for nearly two decades. Even when we're paying two guys max money, we're told we're still not even close to competing. I'm not sure how many franchises ask that of their fans through multiple regimes.

Agreed... the talk of "championships" should never be uttered by anybody associated with the Wolves. "Compete", "Challenge", "Respectability."

Those work.

This is an interesting board. I think most would agree that the team has been much maligned by posters here since the draft...bad draft, no defense, imbalance of wings/bigs, bad coach, bad GM, disengaged superstar, bad system, poor 3-point shooting, etc etc etc. And yet 10 of the first 14 predictions have a forecasted win total higher than the Vegas total! I guess the psychological profile here might be diagnosed as "critically optimistic"?

Well, I'm going to make it 11 out of 15. More than any year other than the Butler acquisition, I love what this team has done in the offseason. They added an athletic freak that most pundits saw as the best player in the draft (I'm throwing out Ball because I never considered him a viable #1 pick), but more importantly they added three veterans (Rubio, RHJ and Davis) who have reputations as proven leaders and locker room influencers...terrific pickups. KAT and D-Lo are talented players, but seem to be the type of player who need stability and mature leadership...I think our new three vets will help greatly with their development. And then there's Culver and Okogie- two guys who I envision showing great improvement this year. Finally, I take a minority opinion with respect to Ryan Saunders. I don't believe X's and O's matter as much in coaching basketball as they do in football- what matters more is whether the coach can connect with players and whether the players will play hard for him. I think Saunders is that type of coach, and not a negative for this team.

So with all that, I'm going way over the Vegas total. 37 wins.

Do I even need to say it?

Keep in mind there are only 72 games this year. And that doesn't include any games that might be canceled due to Covid along the way.

Do I have to pick a whole number I am thinking 28.5 wins.

bleedspeed177 wrote:Do I have to pick a whole number I am thinking 28.5 wins.

You should do a number divisible by pi.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:You guys are bringing me down... and I'm the guy who's usually a pessimist.

If this team with two max contract guys in their primes... and the #1 pick in the draft can't even flirt with a .500 record... what are we doing?

Granted, I don't think they can reach .500 either. But I usually rely on you guys for some optimism. If even some of you think they're gonna suck balls... then I'm even more leery than normal.

... oh... oh.... buckle up.... Rant... coming....

Personally, I thought it was suspect when Rosas inherited a 36 - 46 team (which was 32 - 37 after the Butler sabotage)... and told us it was a complete rebuild many years in the making. That's an old bullshit GM trick that we fell for. Despite moving all this deck furniture around, we might reach that lofty "the sky is falling" 36 - 46 record NEXT season?

Because the cavalry aint coming. This is it. This is the team. We can keep talking about each and every player improving... but this is the NBA. This is the Timbewolves. That's not how it works. Derrick Williams didn't get better. Darko didn't change. Wes Johnson. Jonny Flynn. Wiggins. Et al.

Some guys do improve and become quality players for winning teams. MOST... do not. We simply can't count on Edwards, Culver, Okogie and even DLO and Towns all getting better. This is a crazy thought, but some even get worse!

I'm not a kneejerk reactionary guy. I want to believe that Russell and Towns need more than one lousy game together before we start anew. But think about what we're in the middle of... I feel like we're being duped a bit, even if the new regime hits it big with Edwards.

- Inherit a team just below .500 in a ravaged, mutiny-filled season.
- Talk the fanbase into a complete rebuild... despite having an All NBA and iconic star big man on the roster.
- Swinging for the fences with all three draft picks.
- Tempered expectations where we MIGHT be able to get back to a record we were at when it was described as a teardown project.

I've said it before... we live in a very self-serving society. And it's wise for GMs to downplay the previous regime to buy themselves more time. I just don't know why we of all fanbases fall for it.

If we can't or shouldn't hope that other young guys you mentioned be part of the turnaround of this team move it to Seattle and let's get on with our lives. Good teams have good players they draft and develop. I get where you are coming from but I'm not lowering my expectations for what SHOULD happen for this franchise in them being a legit playoff team for a run of a few years. I'm done with championship or bust let's be like good and stuff.

Of course we have to hope that young players improve. But all of them can't improve. It's simply not realistic. Yet, that's what we've been asked to believe in for nearly two decades. Even when we're paying two guys max money, we're told we're still not even close to competing. I'm not sure how many franchises ask that of their fans through multiple regimes.

Agreed... the talk of "championships" should never be uttered by anybody associated with the Wolves. "Compete", "Challenge", "Respectability."

Those work.

Oh yeah I'm not suggesting all the young guys improve. How many need to get better become some sort of approximation of good player to elevate the franchise to a respectable level? It depends. What makes this roster somewhat compelling is other than Rubio and Ed Davis every other guy has some chance of improving who they are to a better level of player. Nobody is really expecting Layman to become even a high end starter but a legit rotation guy would be pretty nice especially at his salary. I'm certainly not banking on it but RHJ could still round out his game to be a better version of what he is? These are some of the guys that aren't likely as critical as say someone like Edwards hitting on being at least a high level starter or Beasley doing the same but there is some hope.

Now we have been here before right? Lots of young guys we hope or think can be some worthwhile piece going forward. Most didn't pan out that way or the Wolves moved on from them and they thrived more after leaving.

In the past 15 years or so the Wolves haven't made any drastic mistakes in the area but it would have been nice to have guys like Ellington, Bjelica, Anthony Tolliver, Luc Mbah a Moute or Thad Young around for legit competent players. Every aspect of the roster matters not everyone has to hit their ceiling.

Out of what 15 young or youngish guys some are going to be either no good or wildly replaceable. Can they hit on a 3rd of those guys? They need to really hit on someone other than their max guys to take the next step most likely u less Towns and Russell take a legit step to be absolute stars in the league which isn't impossible but I don't think anyone here is exactly banking on that now.

The bottom line for me is I'm here for this year to see what happens. I don't have wild expectations for this group. I don't think they will suck and that's not good enough but it might be good enough to build something. I wanna see how Culver does is his hard work and good attitude going to propel him to something than the next poor shooing Bench playmaker wing that's kinda handy if you don't overpay them? The list could go on of guys I'm simply interested to see what works and what doesn't. This is another chance to see what Rubio's worth is for his career.