Wolves acquire Gordon

[Coolbreeze44]

I want to just say again that Gordon is a pretty good player who is just starting to hit his prime. Playing with KAT, DLO, and whoever we add with the #1 asset would allow him to do what he does best. He doesn't have to be a star to impact our bottom line. I just think our team looks a lot better with him than a project at #17.

I can't remember the thread or who started it, but someone asked for options of specific players to add, and I said Gordon. This was a few weeks back. So yeah, I'm definitely on board.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I want to just say again that Gordon is a pretty good player who is just starting to hit his prime. Playing with KAT, DLO, and whoever we add with the #1 asset would allow him to do what he does best. He doesn't have to be a star to impact our bottom line. I just think our team looks a lot better with him than a project at #17.

I can't remember the thread or who started it, but someone asked for options of specific players to add, and I said Gordon. This was a few weeks back. So yeah, I'm definitely on board.

Short-term... yes...

Gordon will almost certainly be better than the 17th pick. Maybe even better forever.

And one thing to think about any potential trade... the clock is ticking. Now, many of us might just say "Fine, leave Kat." But that clock is always ticking in today's NBA. Faster. And faster. The days of slowly building a team for a decade or half-decade are over. Heck, look at a guy like Giannis. He's being pushed to move from a 60+win team. The Wolves went 19 - 45.

Gordon isn't exactly the type of franchise crippling move that the Bucks are doing. It's a move in the margins that would probably make the Wolves better this season. And next.

But he'll never be a star player.

[Coolbreeze44]

I want to just say again that Gordon is a pretty good player who is just starting to hit his prime. Playing with KAT, DLO, and whoever we add with the #1 asset would allow him to do what he does best. He doesn't have to be a star to impact our bottom line. I just think our team looks a lot better with him than a project at #17.

I can't remember the thread or who started it, but someone asked for options of specific players to add, and I said Gordon. This was a few weeks back. So yeah, I'm definitely on board.

Short-term... yes...

Gordon will almost certainly be better than the 17th pick. Maybe even better forever.

And one thing to think about any potential trade... the clock is ticking. Now, many of us might just say "Fine, leave Kat." But that clock is always ticking in today's NBA. Faster. And faster. The days of slowly building a team for a decade or half-decade are over. Heck, look at a guy like Giannis. He's being pushed to move from a 60+win team. The Wolves went 19 - 45.

Gordon isn't exactly the type of franchise crippling move that the Bucks are doing. It's a move in the margins that would probably make the Wolves better this season. And next.

But he'll never be a star player.

I'm not suggesting he will be a star player, in fact, I'm saying he won't. But the point is he is a good player who doesn't have to come in here and be a star. He can do the dirty work and help to improve our defense.

[KiwiMatt]

I'm not sure Aaron Gordon is a good fit next to KAT. I remember watching him in his rookie year and thinking this guy is the next Blake Griffin with potenitally better defense. I was wrong on both accounts.

He has weird contract where it declines annually - 18.1mil in 20/21 and 16.4 in 21/22.

I wouldn't want to give up the 17th pick to acquire him. But wouldn't mind if it was James Johnson, the 33nd and maybe a future 2nd. Although the Magic value him higher than that.

[BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]]

I'm not sure Aaron Gordon is a good fit next to KAT. I remember watching him in his rookie year and thinking this guy is the next Blake Griffin with potenitally better defense. I was wrong on both accounts.

He has weird contract where it declines annually - 18.1mil in 20/21 and 16.4 in 21/22.

I wouldn't want to give up the 17th pick to acquire him. But wouldn't mind if it was James Johnson, the 33nd and maybe a future 2nd. Although the Magic value him higher than that.

I'll support this trade if it happens. Agree that he would be better than a #17 pick and JJ.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

What happens when we include players who went after pick 17? Certainly, they were available at that slot too even though they weren't drafted there. Those teams just missed them.

I'm not saying 17 is going to be a slam dunk or even a sure thing, but if this front office was competent and confident in their scouting ability, then they'd roll the dice and try to pluck a potentially better player.

Here's a list of players better than or comparable to Aaron Gordon in value that were taken at 17 or later since 2008:

2008: Roy Hibbert, Ryan Anderson, Serge Ibaka, Nic Batum, George Hill, Nikola Pekovic, DeAndre Jordan, Goran Dragic
2009: Jrue Holiday, Ty Lawson, Jeff Teague, Darren Collison, Taj Gibson, DeMarre Carroll, Patrick Beverley, Danny Green, Patty Mills
2010: Eric Bledsoe, Avery Bradley, Hassan Whiteside
2011: Tobias Harris, Kenneth Faried, Nikola Mirotic, Jimmy Butler, Bojan Bogdanovi?, Chandler Parsons, Isaiah Thomas
2012: Evan Fournier, Draymond Green, Khris Middleton
2013: Dennis Schroder, Rudy Gobert
2014: Gary Harris, Clint Capela, Bogdan Bogdanovi?, Joe Harris, Spencer Dinwiddie, Jerami Grant, Nikola Jokic, Dwight Powell, Jordan Clarkson
2015: Delon Wright, Montrezl Harrell, Josh Richardson
2016: Malik Beasley, Caris LeVert, Pascal Siakam, Dejounte Murray, Ivica Zubac, Malcolm Brogdon
2017: John Collins, Jarrett Allen, OG Anunoby, Kyle Kuzma, Derrick White, Thomas Bryant, Dillon Brooks, Monte Morris
2018: Donte DiVincenzo, Kevin Huerter, Landry Shamet, Devonte' Graham, Mitchell Robinson, Gary Trent Jr.

Full transparency, there are definitely some players included above that I wouldn't take over Aaron Gordon, but my point still stands. There's enough value to be found that I'd take my chances at 17 and the rookie scale contract, or possibly even use 17 to trade up, before I dealt it for Gordon.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I want to just say again that Gordon is a pretty good player who is just starting to hit his prime. Playing with KAT, DLO, and whoever we add with the #1 asset would allow him to do what he does best. He doesn't have to be a star to impact our bottom line. I just think our team looks a lot better with him than a project at #17.

I can't remember the thread or who started it, but someone asked for options of specific players to add, and I said Gordon. This was a few weeks back. So yeah, I'm definitely on board.

Short-term... yes...

Gordon will almost certainly be better than the 17th pick. Maybe even better forever.

And one thing to think about any potential trade... the clock is ticking. Now, many of us might just say "Fine, leave Kat." But that clock is always ticking in today's NBA. Faster. And faster. The days of slowly building a team for a decade or half-decade are over. Heck, look at a guy like Giannis. He's being pushed to move from a 60+win team. The Wolves went 19 - 45.

Gordon isn't exactly the type of franchise crippling move that the Bucks are doing. It's a move in the margins that would probably make the Wolves better this season. And next.

But he'll never be a star player.

I'm not suggesting he will be a star player, in fact, I'm saying he won't. But the point is he is a good player who doesn't have to come in here and be a star. He can do the dirty work and help to improve our defense.

Yeah. I know. I'm just saying that's really the primary downside to landing him.

As long as we're cool with that outlook... I totally see why you'd want to add him. He makes the team better today.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

The problem Cam is that you are cherry-picking good players taken after #17 based on hindsight. In other words, there are 43 opportunities in each of those drafts to pick a good player after #17, of which rarely are there more than 10% that end up being as good or better than what Gordon is now.

And the picks aren't being done by some random number generator. These are professional front offices that basically hit on a good, starting-caliber NBA player about 10-15% of the time after #17. The other 85-90% of the time, they find a journeyman or someone out of the league with a year or two.

I'm not even a huge Gordon fan, but I get the logic as to why we'd make that deal with #17.

[kekgeek]

What happens when we include players who went after pick 17? Certainly, they were available at that slot too even though they weren't drafted there. Those teams just missed them.

I'm not saying 17 is going to be a slam dunk or even a sure thing, but if this front office was competent and confident in their scouting ability, then they'd roll the dice and try to pluck a potentially better player.

Here's a list of players better than or comparable to Aaron Gordon in value that were taken at 17 or later since 2008:

2008: Roy Hibbert, Ryan Anderson, Serge Ibaka, Nic Batum, George Hill, Nikola Pekovic, DeAndre Jordan, Goran Dragic
2009: Jrue Holiday, Ty Lawson, Jeff Teague, Darren Collison, Taj Gibson, DeMarre Carroll, Patrick Beverley, Danny Green, Patty Mills
2010: Eric Bledsoe, Avery Bradley, Hassan Whiteside
2011: Tobias Harris, Kenneth Faried, Nikola Mirotic, Jimmy Butler, Bojan Bogdanovi?, Chandler Parsons, Isaiah Thomas
2012: Evan Fournier, Draymond Green, Khris Middleton
2013: Dennis Schroder, Rudy Gobert
2014: Gary Harris, Clint Capela, Bogdan Bogdanovi?, Joe Harris, Spencer Dinwiddie, Jerami Grant, Nikola Jokic, Dwight Powell, Jordan Clarkson
2015: Delon Wright, Montrezl Harrell, Josh Richardson
2016: Malik Beasley, Caris LeVert, Pascal Siakam, Dejounte Murray, Ivica Zubac, Malcolm Brogdon
2017: John Collins, Jarrett Allen, OG Anunoby, Kyle Kuzma, Derrick White, Thomas Bryant, Dillon Brooks, Monte Morris
2018: Donte DiVincenzo, Kevin Huerter, Landry Shamet, Devonte' Graham, Mitchell Robinson, Gary Trent Jr.

Full transparency, there are definitely some players included above that I wouldn't take over Aaron Gordon, but my point still stands. There's enough value to be found that I'd take my chances at 17 and the rookie scale contract, or possibly even use 17 to trade up, before I dealt it for Gordon.

I think you post even strengthens my argument. Like in the 2011 you list 7 players you think were drafted 17 or later that would be better or similar to Gordon (you used Thomas who was the last pick of the draft so all 60 draftees are warented) of the 47 players who were drafted in that draft during that draft so 14.9% you will find a player who is similar or better then Gordon.

So from 2009 to 2018 you listed 56 players who you think are at least similar or better then Gordon and you even mentioned you would still take Gordon over them 470 players who were drafted so 11.9% of drafting a player who is eliegible to be drafted who is better or similar to Gordon and even you said you would take Gordon over the players, so that number will go down.

[AbeVigodaLive]

What happens when we include players who went after pick 17? Certainly, they were available at that slot too even though they weren't drafted there. Those teams just missed them.

I'm not saying 17 is going to be a slam dunk or even a sure thing, but if this front office was competent and confident in their scouting ability, then they'd roll the dice and try to pluck a potentially better player.

Here's a list of players better than or comparable to Aaron Gordon in value that were taken at 17 or later since 2008:

2008: Roy Hibbert, Ryan Anderson, Serge Ibaka, Nic Batum, George Hill, Nikola Pekovic, DeAndre Jordan, Goran Dragic
2009: Jrue Holiday, Ty Lawson, Jeff Teague, Darren Collison, Taj Gibson, DeMarre Carroll, Patrick Beverley, Danny Green, Patty Mills
2010: Eric Bledsoe, Avery Bradley, Hassan Whiteside
2011: Tobias Harris, Kenneth Faried, Nikola Mirotic, Jimmy Butler, Bojan Bogdanovi?, Chandler Parsons, Isaiah Thomas
2012: Evan Fournier, Draymond Green, Khris Middleton
2013: Dennis Schroder, Rudy Gobert
2014: Gary Harris, Clint Capela, Bogdan Bogdanovi?, Joe Harris, Spencer Dinwiddie, Jerami Grant, Nikola Jokic, Dwight Powell, Jordan Clarkson
2015: Delon Wright, Montrezl Harrell, Josh Richardson
2016: Malik Beasley, Caris LeVert, Pascal Siakam, Dejounte Murray, Ivica Zubac, Malcolm Brogdon
2017: John Collins, Jarrett Allen, OG Anunoby, Kyle Kuzma, Derrick White, Thomas Bryant, Dillon Brooks, Monte Morris
2018: Donte DiVincenzo, Kevin Huerter, Landry Shamet, Devonte' Graham, Mitchell Robinson, Gary Trent Jr.

Full transparency, there are definitely some players included above that I wouldn't take over Aaron Gordon, but my point still stands. There's enough value to be found that I'd take my chances at 17 and the rookie scale contract, or possibly even use 17 to trade up, before I dealt it for Gordon.

Sure. Of course there will be a player taken after #17 in this draft that will be better than Gordon. It's almost a guarantee. There will probably be multiple players equal to... or better. But that's a double-sided coin...

In 2010... 3 out of 43 players take #17 or later were better.
In 2013... 2 out of 43 were better.

Even in a "good" draft year... the odds are about 20% the player the Wolves pick would end up better than Gordon. And the rub there is that it's not even with the team that drafts them in many cases.

If it's a cost/salary issue... I get it. If it's wondering if the #17 pick is better for the Wolves winning games the next two seasons... the odds are stacked very highly against it.



[Edit: Damn it Kek and Q... I should have read all the posts first. You guys beat me to it.]