Minnesota Sports Forum

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:This is one of those games where hating on Teague makes no sense...

ZERO sense.

"I didn't see the game tonight" was the key part of that post. Lip... if you saw the game, you'd know why Teague played 33 minutes and why your statement deserves some criticism.

That being said... he was abysmal on Saturday. Mind-boggling bad. And it wasn't the shooting (2 - 14 fg) that was most alarming. The guy made the wrong choice repeatedly... time after time after time... down the court. Fumbled the ball just enough to bog things down. Over-dribbled. Et al.

He did not even look like a legit NBA player on Saturday. He was very good yesterday.

And that's a huge part of the problem. How can a seasoned vet look so poor one night and great the next night?



[Note: This can be filed away as blasphemy/slander... but I can't help think there's something behind the scenes going on sometimes. Personal problems. Booze. Etc. Teague's performance on Saturday was really that bad. And it wouldn't be unprecedented in the NBA. Heck, there's a sordid history of players who drank too much, partied too much, et al in the L over the past few decades.]

I think it's fairly common for many guys. I heard Rodman talking about partying all night but still putting it down during the game, he didn't seem to have on court problems. I guess it depends what you are doing and how hard. I always suspected Wiggins hitting the weed hard with how much he lacks the ability to develop further (actually regress) and his lack of effort and toughness.

I really think the NBA either doesn't test for drugs and/or throws away the results because I never hear about guys being suspended for anything. Call it a conspiracy theory but I highly doubt every player in the league is clean in both performance enhancing drugs and "illegal" substances. I would say the chances are between 0 and zilch.

It makes sense because it actually detracts from the product, look how much bad publicity hurt baseball for instance. Say we test but everyone is clean. Yeah, ok.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

60WinTim wrote:

Camden wrote:I'd like to see KBD have a good scoring game, all things considered. Think he might already have a higher floor from game to game than Wiggins and he's played in just a handful of games to this point. Wild.

What's nice is he has done more than just scoring. Just a solid game. RoCo and KBD could be very solid for us next year.

And Dieng is just too slow for today's NBA game. There is not a ton of stuff I can say is great with Ryan, but benching Dieng is one of them (as you had previously mentioned).

I noticed it in the previous game against the Wizards but does anyone else think Dieng looks slimmer? His upper arms used to look sorta big and they don't now. Was he like sick or something? Dieng is a solid NBA bench center in a league that doesn't need them much. Regardless his per 36 minutes would suggest he is having a career year in production. He played well on this game despite poor shooting percentages. Dieng being on the roster and even playing sometimes isn't the problem it's his salary. At least the guy is doing something good with all that money. The best news is we are a little over a year from him becoming an expiring deal that could be moved. It's time to just accept the Dieng experience and quite fantasizing about dealing him away. So should whoever is running this team.

Jim Pete talked about him being sick and looking noticeably thinner... lost 20 pounds or so?

Don't know if more information about that ever came out.

Thanks Abe for the info. I don't always see everything from the broadcast because either I am watching another team's feed or skip ahead during FTs etc.

WolvesFan21 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:This is one of those games where hating on Teague makes no sense...

ZERO sense.

"I didn't see the game tonight" was the key part of that post. Lip... if you saw the game, you'd know why Teague played 33 minutes and why your statement deserves some criticism.

That being said... he was abysmal on Saturday. Mind-boggling bad. And it wasn't the shooting (2 - 14 fg) that was most alarming. The guy made the wrong choice repeatedly... time after time after time... down the court. Fumbled the ball just enough to bog things down. Over-dribbled. Et al.

He did not even look like a legit NBA player on Saturday. He was very good yesterday.

And that's a huge part of the problem. How can a seasoned vet look so poor one night and great the next night?



[Note: This can be filed away as blasphemy/slander... but I can't help think there's something behind the scenes going on sometimes. Personal problems. Booze. Etc. Teague's performance on Saturday was really that bad. And it wouldn't be unprecedented in the NBA. Heck, there's a sordid history of players who drank too much, partied too much, et al in the L over the past few decades.]

I think it's fairly common for many guys. I heard Rodman talking about partying all night but still putting it down during the game, he didn't seem to have on court problems. I guess it depends what you are doing and how hard. I always suspected Wiggins hitting the weed hard with how much he lacks the ability to develop further (actually regress) and his lack of effort and toughness.

I really think the NBA either doesn't test for drugs and/or throws away the results because I never hear about guys being suspended for anything. Call it a conspiracy theory but I highly doubt every player in the league is clean in both performance enhancing drugs and "illegal" substances. I would say the chances are between 0 and zilch.

It makes sense because it actually detracts from the product, look how much bad publicity hurt baseball for instance. Say we test but everyone is clean. Yeah, ok.

I remember Bill Simmons writing about how laughable the NBA's drug policy is.

I think it was basically "get tested three times... then you're home free."

WolvesFan21 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:This is one of those games where hating on Teague makes no sense...

ZERO sense.

"I didn't see the game tonight" was the key part of that post. Lip... if you saw the game, you'd know why Teague played 33 minutes and why your statement deserves some criticism.

That being said... he was abysmal on Saturday. Mind-boggling bad. And it wasn't the shooting (2 - 14 fg) that was most alarming. The guy made the wrong choice repeatedly... time after time after time... down the court. Fumbled the ball just enough to bog things down. Over-dribbled. Et al.

He did not even look like a legit NBA player on Saturday. He was very good yesterday.

And that's a huge part of the problem. How can a seasoned vet look so poor one night and great the next night?



[Note: This can be filed away as blasphemy/slander... but I can't help think there's something behind the scenes going on sometimes. Personal problems. Booze. Etc. Teague's performance on Saturday was really that bad. And it wouldn't be unprecedented in the NBA. Heck, there's a sordid history of players who drank too much, partied too much, et al in the L over the past few decades.]

I think it's fairly common for many guys. I heard Rodman talking about partying all night but still putting it down during the game, he didn't seem to have on court problems. I guess it depends what you are doing and how hard. I always suspected Wiggins hitting the weed hard with how much he lacks the ability to develop further (actually regress) and his lack of effort and toughness.

I really think the NBA either doesn't test for drugs and/or throws away the results because I never hear about guys being suspended for anything. Call it a conspiracy theory but I highly doubt every player in the league is clean in both performance enhancing drugs and "illegal" substances. I would say the chances are between 0 and zilch.

It makes sense because it actually detracts from the product, look how much bad publicity hurt baseball for instance. Say we test but everyone is clean. Yeah, ok.

I'd guess that basketball drug testing is less rigorous and less often. It would be interesting to hear some info on that. It's also worth noting that NBA also has the smallest rosters of any of the pro sports so fewer guys to get busted. I agree it seems like few of them relatively speaking. Mayo did get kicked out of the league and Noah did serve a lengthy suspension.

As for Teague...his affect has been weird all season. He is a quite guy and I know the first half the season he was still up off the bench cheering for his teammates etc. I haven't been paying attention that much lately. He doesn't seem like a guy that goes out and parties maybe he is playing video games too might or something like that. It would not shock me to find out he has a grandmother that's sick or something like that.

The one thing I will say about Teague is that since coming back from injury he looks healthy and has a bit of juice going. It's the mental aspect and not being a guy that can or wants to just get his shot unless it's sort of midrange floaters or whatever. I think some is lack of just go get a bucket skill because of the way he utilizes his jumper (kinda the habitual way he shoots) but some seems mental too. And yes his decision making can be maddening. This game though he was playing well.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:This is one of those games where hating on Teague makes no sense...

ZERO sense.

"I didn't see the game tonight" was the key part of that post. Lip... if you saw the game, you'd know why Teague played 33 minutes and why your statement deserves some criticism.

That being said... he was abysmal on Saturday. Mind-boggling bad. And it wasn't the shooting (2 - 14 fg) that was most alarming. The guy made the wrong choice repeatedly... time after time after time... down the court. Fumbled the ball just enough to bog things down. Over-dribbled. Et al.

He did not even look like a legit NBA player on Saturday. He was very good yesterday.

And that's a huge part of the problem. How can a seasoned vet look so poor one night and great the next night?



[Note: This can be filed away as blasphemy/slander... but I can't help think there's something behind the scenes going on sometimes. Personal problems. Booze. Etc. Teague's performance on Saturday was really that bad. And it wouldn't be unprecedented in the NBA. Heck, there's a sordid history of players who drank too much, partied too much, et al in the L over the past few decades.]

I think it's fairly common for many guys. I heard Rodman talking about partying all night but still putting it down during the game, he didn't seem to have on court problems. I guess it depends what you are doing and how hard. I always suspected Wiggins hitting the weed hard with how much he lacks the ability to develop further (actually regress) and his lack of effort and toughness.

I really think the NBA either doesn't test for drugs and/or throws away the results because I never hear about guys being suspended for anything. Call it a conspiracy theory but I highly doubt every player in the league is clean in both performance enhancing drugs and "illegal" substances. I would say the chances are between 0 and zilch.

It makes sense because it actually detracts from the product, look how much bad publicity hurt baseball for instance. Say we test but everyone is clean. Yeah, ok.

I remember Bill Simmons writing about how laughable the NBA's drug policy is.

I think it was basically "get tested three times... then you're home free."

I'm sure they give them a week heads up to.

While I'm sure there is a contingent of players that still party pretty hard, regardless if there is a game the next day or not, I bet there is a little bit less of it than, say, in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

And Rodman was one of the true physical freaks to ever play the game. His motor, endurance, and energy were unprecedented. It didn't seem to matter what he put in his body.

Q12543 wrote:While I'm sure there is a contingent of players that still party pretty hard, regardless if there is a game the next day or not, I bet there is a little bit less of it than, say, in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

And Rodman was one of the true physical freaks to ever play the game. His motor, endurance, and energy were unprecedented. It didn't seem to matter what he put in his body.

And the weird thing was while he clearly had some issues he was also a guy that sorta played mind games on the court. He was gifted physically but he was also just damn talented at what he did. He was a VERY smart player.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:This is one of those games where hating on Teague makes no sense...

ZERO sense.

"I didn't see the game tonight" was the key part of that post. Lip... if you saw the game, you'd know why Teague played 33 minutes and why your statement deserves some criticism.

That being said... he was abysmal on Saturday. Mind-boggling bad. And it wasn't the shooting (2 - 14 fg) that was most alarming. The guy made the wrong choice repeatedly... time after time after time... down the court. Fumbled the ball just enough to bog things down. Over-dribbled. Et al.

He did not even look like a legit NBA player on Saturday. He was very good yesterday.

And that's a huge part of the problem. How can a seasoned vet look so poor one night and great the next night?



[Note: This can be filed away as blasphemy/slander... but I can't help think there's something behind the scenes going on sometimes. Personal problems. Booze. Etc. Teague's performance on Saturday was really that bad. And it wouldn't be unprecedented in the NBA. Heck, there's a sordid history of players who drank too much, partied too much, et al in the L over the past few decades.]

Teague's box score looked good against the Knicks, so I get why he played. But my point is a simple one, which I'll explain again at the risk of sounding like a broken record. I see no point in giving significant minutes to veterans who aren't likely to be here long term and who don't make long-term sense as part of trying to build a contender around KAT. Teague has one more year left on his deal unless he opts out. I'd like to encourage him to opt out by not playing him. In any event, I don't see him sticking around beyond next season and I wouldn't want him to even if he were so inclined.

Yes, playing Teague can help us win games, although his horrible play almost caused us to lose to the Wizards the night before. But as I've said repeatedly, the point at this junction isn't to win games. In fact, winning does nothing to improve the long-term prospects of this organization and can actually hurt those prospects to the extent it hurts our draft position. The goal should be the development and evaluation of our young players --Okogie, KBD, Tyus Jones and Dario Saric - maybe even Cam Reynolds. That means playing them more and our vets less. Giving Teague 30+ minutes does nothing to promote the long-term interests of this organization. So I'll always criticize giving Teague significant playing time the rest of this season. I'm not hating on him. He's not a bad player. He's just not a fit long term for this organization and it makes no sense to give him minutes that could go to younger players who at least might be part of the long-term picture.

I see what you're saying, Lip, but as far as point guard evaluations, I think we know what we have. Jones isn't a starter in this league, but he is a good backup guard that you can rely on to play competently on both ends of the floor. Rose is likely a free agent departure and Teague may or may not exercise his player option -- I'd argue one of the best possible outcomes would be for him to decline his option and re-sign here for more years but less annual money. When you look at the free agent pool, it's slim pickings and he is more than capable of starting for a winning team.

As for the player evaluation at the other positions, it's sensible to want quality point guard play to support them so that you get an accurate read of their abilities. What good would it be to try and evaluate Bates-Diop if he was playing the bulk of his minutes with Jared Terrell? That's the point I'm getting at there.

Camden0916 wrote:I see what you're saying, Lip, but as far as point guard evaluations, I think we know what we have. Jones isn't a starter in this league, but he is a good backup guard that you can rely on to play competently on both ends of the floor. Rose is likely a free agent departure and Teague may or may not exercise his player option -- I'd argue one of the best possible outcomes would be for him to decline his option and re-sign here for more years but less annual money. When you look at the free agent pool, it's slim pickings and he is more than capable of starting for a winning team.

As for the player evaluation at the other positions, it's sensible to want quality point guard play to support them so that you get an accurate read of their abilities. What good would it be to try and evaluate Bates-Diop if he was playing the bulk of his minutes with Jared Terrell? That's the point I'm getting at there.

In addition the most likely scenario is that Teague is gonna be here. Yeah he isn't the long term guy but Tyus isn't exactly making a super strong case as the guy. Let's say we go with Lip's plan and do start him play him 30+ minutes a night (which i am not against doing). Could that raise his value around the league? Would keeping his minutes down actually help keep his price lower? There are more sides to look at.

Back to Teague. Like I said the guy is basically 90% gonna be back unless some team wants to trade for one year of him or something like that but his injuries and underwhelming overall play isn't gonna help the cause. Ryan has deferred to bets to some extent and then found ways to get younger guys on the floor and reward them for their play. People forget Rubio would have terrible games too. Teague has stinkers. He is a solid legit starting PG not some fringe start or elite role player. He is maddening in his own way as guys in his tier are. I don't know if not playing Teague to get him to maybe leave is a thing we want a good organization do. Doesn't exactly seem classy. Reduce his minutes maybe even start Tyus? Sure he probably would be fine with it also. He has been a huge Tyus fan the whole time he has been here.

Let's get back to Tyus. Ryan has all kinds of incentive to start and play him a ton if he really wanted to. He is close with Tyus his dad picked him etc etc. Tyus has been solid but he isn't exactly ripping away minutes from Teague or anything. As things wind down I wouldn't be surprised if Tyus gets more time and it could have happened sooner but I'm not stressing too much since Tyus is playing a bigger role and more minutes.